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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On February 01 2014 19:12 Fildun wrote: @Scip and Unseen Buildorder + skillorder for jungle Kayle pls. Isn't she right about to get nerfed? Then again, that was the rationale i used for not learning ziggs about 6 months ago >.> | ||
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Gahlo
United States35091 Posts
On February 01 2014 20:02 killerdog wrote: Isn't she right about to get nerfed? Then again, that was the rationale i used for not learning ziggs about 6 months ago >.> It doesn't look that bad. She'll just 3 or 4 shot people with 2 items instead of 2 shotting them. | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35091 Posts
On February 01 2014 20:34 IMoperator wrote: 5 promos lost in a row, maybe my 6th one will be better... sigh. I feel ya man. I'm getting roadblocked at promos too. | ||
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Malphite
United States186 Posts
On February 01 2014 15:46 Amui wrote: Cs is relative, but unless the lane has been an absolute bloodbath(which does happen from time to time) 100/10m is benchmark without jungle, with 80+ being good. For nasus, with absolute free farm and tp I think 150-180 for first 10m and ~300 for every 10m after that is around the maximum. For most lanes though,100 for first 10 and 150+ for every 10 after is fine. I'm platinum right now.. and i have buddies who are diamond 1-3 range...100 for first 10 mins is the benchmark?? FOR THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD. I bet you 100 dollars pay pal right now.. you won't ever reach 100 cs in first 10 mins laning against someone decent. People act like LCS is the benchmark. Why don't we have benchmarks for other games and sports as well?? Ok only 360 dunks when playing basketball is the benchmark. For starcraft 2 the benchmark is 300 APM and if you're under, u suck. I am above average at cs'ing... 100 for first 10 mins is the benchmark for top lane?? you never played this game in your life if you say that. Mid maybe because you can farm wraiths (4 cs) after the wave and come back to lane without missing a creep. Don't listen to this guy, he doesn't know what he's talking about. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On February 01 2014 20:02 killerdog wrote: Isn't she right about to get nerfed? Then again, that was the rationale i used for not learning ziggs about 6 months ago >.> Yo that heal buff, driveby healing counterganks OP'd | ||
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ItsFunToLose
United States776 Posts
On February 01 2014 20:56 Malphite wrote: I'm platinum right now.. and i have buddies who are diamond 1-3 range...100 for first 10 mins is the benchmark?? FOR THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD. I bet you 100 dollars pay pal right now.. you won't ever reach 100 cs in first 10 mins laning against someone decent. People act like LCS is the benchmark. Why don't we have benchmarks for other games and sports as well?? Ok only 360 dunks when playing basketball is the benchmark. For starcraft 2 the benchmark is 300 APM and if you're under, u suck. I am above average at cs'ing... 100 for first 10 mins is the benchmark for top lane?? you never played this game in your life if you say that. Mid maybe because you can farm wraiths (4 cs) after the wave and come back to lane without missing a creep. Don't listen to this guy, he doesn't know what he's talking about. you sound mad. ill go top lane, you go bottom lane. at 10 minutes, vs empty lane, i'll bet you $100 i have more CS than you. it's the benchmark. shut up. | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
Outside of Bruisers, I like Malzahar vs him. Wind Wall is useless and you have enough burst potential to crack through the passive. It's also not hard to trigger the shield with harass (can use the first tick of W) Plus the lockdown Ult + Silence is excellent. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On February 01 2014 21:26 ItsFunToLose wrote: you sound mad. ill go top lane, you go bottom lane. at 10 minutes, vs empty lane, i'll bet you $100 i have more CS than you. it's the benchmark. shut up. Laning against no-one is so hard yo. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On February 01 2014 20:56 Malphite wrote: I'm platinum right now.. and i have buddies who are diamond 1-3 range...100 for first 10 mins is the benchmark?? FOR THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD. I bet you 100 dollars pay pal right now.. you won't ever reach 100 cs in first 10 mins laning against someone decent. People act like LCS is the benchmark. Why don't we have benchmarks for other games and sports as well?? Ok only 360 dunks when playing basketball is the benchmark. For starcraft 2 the benchmark is 300 APM and if you're under, u suck. I am above average at cs'ing... 100 for first 10 mins is the benchmark for top lane?? you never played this game in your life if you say that. Mid maybe because you can farm wraiths (4 cs) after the wave and come back to lane without missing a creep. Don't listen to this guy, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Amui is high plat/low diamondish if I recall ... At about Diamond 1, it's definitely around 100 for first 10 mins. There are TWO different arguments here and people are just trying to use them to argue against each other for no particular reason. 1) 10CS/1 min should be a good benchmark to keep regardless of the situation. This at a mechanics level. 2) You adjust this number depending on game state. This is a totally different skill than knowing how to CS. For example, if I'm playing Diana versus Ziggs/Orianna (or another lane bully), I'm expected to give up CS pre 10 mins. But I am still expected to get every CS I can take. As a result, I can benchmark mine pre 10 maybe at 8-9 CS per min. However, if the lane bully is sacrificing his own CS to increase his lane aggression, I'll yield more. Similarly if I know I'm getting camped, I'll also see less CS. | ||
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Malphite
United States186 Posts
On February 01 2014 21:26 ItsFunToLose wrote: you sound mad. ill go top lane, you go bottom lane. at 10 minutes, vs empty lane, i'll bet you $100 i have more CS than you. it's the benchmark. shut up. LOL i'm mad? why because i'm actually decent at the game and actually know how to play?? I bet you're not even in silver LOL LOL 100 cs every 10 mins is the norm?? LOL what's your ID?? I bet you don't even average 180 cs on your top champs. LOL 30 min game average. do the math. I'm pretty sure i've only been playing for a year and better than 90 percent of the people. I don't spread dumb things like 100 cs every 10 mins. go back to playing bronze mmr | ||
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Malphite
United States186 Posts
On February 01 2014 21:35 KissBlade wrote: Amui is high plat/low diamondish if I recall ... At about Diamond 1, it's definitely around 100 for first 10 mins. There are TWO different arguments here and people are just trying to use them to argue against each other for no particular reason. 1) 10CS/1 min should be a good benchmark to keep regardless of the situation. This at a mechanics level. 2) You adjust this number depending on game state. This is a totally different skill than knowing how to CS. For example, if I'm playing Diana versus Ziggs/Orianna (or another lane bully), I'm expected to give up CS pre 10 mins. But I am still expected to get every CS I can take. As a result, I can benchmark mine pre 10 maybe at 8-9 CS per min. However, if the lane bully is sacrificing his own CS to increase his lane aggression, I'll yield more. Similarly if I know I'm getting camped, I'll also see less CS. so diamond 1 where less than 1 percent of the total population of league? that's the goal? This is where I'm annoyed, how is the benchmark that high where only the top 1 percent of the player base can hit?? Benchmark is the average of the player base. Not where only 1 out of 100 players can hit. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On February 01 2014 21:35 KissBlade wrote: Amui is high plat/low diamondish if I recall ... At about Diamond 1, it's definitely around 100 for first 10 mins. There are TWO different arguments here and people are just trying to use them to argue against each other for no particular reason. 1) 10CS/1 min should be a good benchmark to keep regardless of the situation. This at a mechanics level. 2) You adjust this number depending on game state. This is a totally different skill than knowing how to CS. For example, if I'm playing Diana versus Ziggs/Orianna (or another lane bully), I'm expected to give up CS pre 10 mins. But I am still expected to get every CS I can take. As a result, I can benchmark mine pre 10 maybe at 8-9 CS per min. However, if the lane bully is sacrificing his own CS to increase his lane aggression, I'll yield more. Similarly if I know I'm getting camped, I'll also see less CS. lol.Definitely not the average.Unless you farm jungle 100 is pretty unreasonable for 10. | ||
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Malphite
United States186 Posts
On February 01 2014 21:45 nafta wrote: lol.Definitely not the average.Unless you farm jungle 100 is pretty unreasonable for 10. thank you.. someone here who plays and understands | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35091 Posts
On February 01 2014 21:26 ItsFunToLose wrote: you sound mad. ill go top lane, you go bottom lane. at 10 minutes, vs empty lane, i'll bet you $100 i have more CS than you. it's the benchmark. shut up. Minion waves don't even clash until around 2 minutes in the side lanes. 114 minions clash by the 10 minute mark. So to get 100 cs at 10 minutes without instaclearing the last wave or taking jungle camps you need to only miss 7 cs. Empty lane is a stupid metric because you'll never be in an empty lane for 10 minutes unless the enemy team has an AFK and their jungler is too dumb to take over the lane, in which case whatever CS you have at 10min is pointless because you win anyway. On February 01 2014 21:35 KissBlade wrote: There are TWO different arguments here and people are just trying to use them to argue against each other for no particular reason. 1) 10CS/1 min should be a good benchmark to keep regardless of the situation. This at a mechanics level. 2) You adjust this number depending on game state. This is a totally different skill than knowing how to CS. For example, if I'm playing Diana versus Ziggs/Orianna (or another lane bully), I'm expected to give up CS pre 10 mins. But I am still expected to get every CS I can take. As a result, I can benchmark mine pre 10 maybe at 8-9 CS per min. However, if the lane bully is sacrificing his own CS to increase his lane aggression, I'll yield more. Similarly if I know I'm getting camped, I'll also see less CS. 1) That's only after 20+ minutes, where people are expected to make up the early deficit through empty lane/jungle farm. 2) Don't see how a lane bully being more aggressive will help you cs better. If anything it should force you off harder. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
His advice was to be able to reach max cs in an empty lane, but it isn't a holy grail in an actual game - you should just be capable of it in an optimal setting. | ||
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Malphite
United States186 Posts
On February 01 2014 21:57 NeoIllusions wrote: zzz, some of you guys need better perspective.
Thank you... I've been saying this all along and people argue with me. Guy even wants to bet me. In solo q, there is no way unless you're in bronze, to lane against someone who isn't harrassing you and trying to deny u CS. When people see the cannon wave, i know people don't wanna miss it, so i push my lane and when he goes in... i all in him. I win because i have the creep wave with me and GG. People act like Cs'ing is all about sitting there and gettin last hits all day. There's so much into it and i'm only in platinum. i'm only averaging over 200 cs on one top lane champion. that's per game. benchmark should be 70-80 like neo said.... | ||
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ItsFunToLose
United States776 Posts
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