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[Patch 4.1] Season 4 Start General Discussion - Page 11

Forum Index > LoL General
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Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 232 Next
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
January 15 2014 15:49 GMT
#201
On January 16 2014 00:40 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
kog is super kawaii and really that's all that matters :3


Truer words have never been spoken.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
brokenwatch
Profile Joined July 2011
Azerbaijan99 Posts
January 15 2014 15:51 GMT
#202
On January 15 2014 23:58 Slayer91 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2014 22:28 brokenwatch wrote:
Riot is steadily getting worse and worse at balancing.These changes are ridiculous. I'm quitting lol and I know I'm not the only one. At least until riot reconsiders it's direction.


then what will you do with your free time borked
all the changes are good too I dunno why everyone complains about every patch in every game ever

oh right
Bam Lee
Profile Joined June 2012
2336 Posts
January 15 2014 15:51 GMT
#203
I cant believe riot still want stop forcing everybody to play the game they want it to be played. Damn this balancing team....
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
January 15 2014 15:57 GMT
#204
Riot-Approved meta is the best meta
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
January 15 2014 15:57 GMT
#205
What's to stop people from picking better 2v2 and/or 1v1 lanes, anticipate the swap from the enemy team, swap themselves, and force the enemy team to either deal with it or lose exp/gold by swapping again (and again)?

I mean, I get how perma-2v1 quickly becomes stale, and how it's true that outer towers falling at the 4 minutes mark creates some kind of weird map dynamic removing side lanes from play till drake time (it's just Riot kneejerk'd that one as usual, if they'd be more patient and people started growing weary by themselves they could make their changes with much less friction, and they'd have more time to polish them too).
However, I don't see how forcing "you will have your duo including a ranged AD in the bottom lane, and the solo in the top lane" on people is the solution. Providing alternatives (Yango mentioned taking jungle camps, and I remember a game where jungle Lee and offlane Jax jungled together for the first 3 minutes, waiting for the wave to reach the tower before he gets there and soaks the exp, that's something that could have been worked on although the golems and the wight are the hardest camps) so that the solo laner doesn't have a choice between being zoned and... being zoned, could make the situation more bearable.
You can also make changes that give incentives to mirror lanes, without forcing it. This way with tweaks both mirror and 1v2 lanes are viable (with different meanings on the champion pool: if only one situation works then it hurts the champions not suited to it, whether it be Riot's favoured setup or not) and you actually raise the game's depth.

I'm not criticising doing something to reduce 1v2 frequency below 85%, I'm criticising Riot trying to raise their choice's frequency to 100%, and doing it with a butcher's finesse (while breaking their own guidelines).
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
January 15 2014 16:00 GMT
#206
On January 16 2014 00:08 oneofthem wrote:
idk why anyone would want longer laning phases. srs?

I dunno about spectating, but I definitely think soloq is alot more fun when I get to toplane versus a single opponent as opposed to 3.
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
Kenpark
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany2350 Posts
January 15 2014 16:03 GMT
#207
Lol at the need to argue why 2on1 lanes are bad. Do you actually play the game ? Its just not fun. Not for the 1on2, not for the jungle and playing pve 2on1 isnt fun either. Also I dont think this is personal preference. Numerous top lane pros stated how they dislike 1on2.
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-15 16:05:31
January 15 2014 16:04 GMT
#208
On January 16 2014 00:57 Alaric wrote:
What's to stop people from picking better 2v2 and/or 1v1 lanes, anticipate the swap from the enemy team, swap themselves, and force the enemy team to either deal with it or lose exp/gold by swapping again (and again)?

I mean, I get how perma-2v1 quickly becomes stale, and how it's true that outer towers falling at the 4 minutes mark creates some kind of weird map dynamic removing side lanes from play till drake time (it's just Riot kneejerk'd that one as usual, if they'd be more patient and people started growing weary by themselves they could make their changes with much less friction, and they'd have more time to polish them too).
However, I don't see how forcing "you will have your duo including a ranged AD in the bottom lane, and the solo in the top lane" on people is the solution. Providing alternatives (Yango mentioned taking jungle camps, and I remember a game where jungle Lee and offlane Jax jungled together for the first 3 minutes, waiting for the wave to reach the tower before he gets there and soaks the exp, that's something that could have been worked on although the golems and the wight are the hardest camps) so that the solo laner doesn't have a choice between being zoned and... being zoned, could make the situation more bearable.
You can also make changes that give incentives to mirror lanes, without forcing it. This way with tweaks both mirror and 1v2 lanes are viable (with different meanings on the champion pool: if only one situation works then it hurts the champions not suited to it, whether it be Riot's favoured setup or not) and you actually raise the game's depth.

I'm not criticising doing something to reduce 1v2 frequency below 85%, I'm criticising Riot trying to raise their choice's frequency to 100%, and doing it with a butcher's finesse (while breaking their own guidelines).


This works at higher levels but adds unnecessary anti-fun elements at the lower levels. A team (or even just a duo) that is capable to making the 2v1 work will gain huge advantages compared to players who are uncoordinated are unprepared.

It adds far more burden of knowledge to the previously homogeneous Riot-Approved laning phase by requiring things like game analysis, map controll, team-based decision making which can lead to all kinds of toxicity when put into a with varying skill levels alongside people who don't know each other.
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-15 16:06:13
January 15 2014 16:04 GMT
#209
But 2v1's arent even 100% used though. There has to be serious thoughts to use it to high effectiveness. Teams with weak botlanes gunna hurt real bad from this change, huge liability now to have weak botlanes. Would not be surprised to see c9 lose a lot more games due to sneaky and lemon's lane phase.

Kupo plz. At lower level no one knows how to 2v1, and if they did, they probably don't belong at that level.
liftlift > tsm
Fildun
Profile Joined December 2012
Netherlands4124 Posts
January 15 2014 16:05 GMT
#210
On January 16 2014 01:03 Kenpark wrote:
Lol at the need to argue why 2on1 lanes are bad. Do you actually play the game ? Its just not fun. Not for the 1on2, not for the jungle and playing pve 2on1 isnt fun either. Also I dont think this is personal preference. Numerous top lane pros stated how they dislike 1on2.

Yes I play the game. Apparently I'm just alone on this. And yes I've also played some 1v2/2v1's.
Kyrie
Profile Joined June 2013
1594 Posts
January 15 2014 16:07 GMT
#211
i think 2v1s are enjoyable as a spectator and add unique strategic depth to the game
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
January 15 2014 16:09 GMT
#212
On January 16 2014 01:04 wei2coolman wrote:
But 2v1's arent even 100% used though. There has to be serious thoughts to use it to high effectiveness. Teams with weak botlanes gunna hurt real bad from this change, huge liability now to have weak botlanes. Would not be surprised to see c9 lose a lot more games due to sneaky and lemon's lane phase.

Kupo plz. At lower level no one knows how to 2v1, and if they did, they probably don't belong at that level.


That's not going to stop people from trying it because they "watched a pro game with it", which leads to the aforementioned anti-fun and toxicity by going out of the Riot-Approved Meta
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
January 15 2014 16:10 GMT
#213
On January 16 2014 01:03 Kenpark wrote:
Lol at the need to argue why 2on1 lanes are bad. Do you actually play the game ? Its just not fun. Not for the 1on2, not for the jungle and playing pve 2on1 isnt fun either. Also I dont think this is personal preference. Numerous top lane pros stated how they dislike 1on2.


SoloQ does not really laneswap though. You don’t play competitive LoL for fun.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Inflicted
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia18228 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-15 16:11:06
January 15 2014 16:10 GMT
#214
On January 16 2014 01:03 Kenpark wrote:
Lol at the need to argue why 2on1 lanes are bad. Do you actually play the game ? Its just not fun. Not for the 1on2, not for the jungle and playing pve 2on1 isnt fun either. Also I dont think this is personal preference. Numerous top lane pros stated how they dislike 1on2.


Unless you're playing Mundo
Liquipedia"Expert"
Kenpark
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany2350 Posts
January 15 2014 16:11 GMT
#215
What's to stop people from picking better 2v2 and/or 1v1 lanes, anticipate the swap from the enemy team, swap themselves, and force the enemy team to either deal with it or lose exp/gold by swapping again (and again)?


But how can you anticipate the swap ? Coordinated level 1 invades to get down wards are not possible in soloq. 1 guy comes at 1.10, the other runs straight to bot etc.
So its pretty much a gamble. And swapping after realizing where they went obv puts you at a big disadvantage.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23448 Posts
January 15 2014 16:12 GMT
#216
On January 16 2014 00:57 Alaric wrote:
What's to stop people from picking better 2v2 and/or 1v1 lanes, anticipate the swap from the enemy team, swap themselves, and force the enemy team to either deal with it or lose exp/gold by swapping again (and again)?

I mean, I get how perma-2v1 quickly becomes stale, and how it's true that outer towers falling at the 4 minutes mark creates some kind of weird map dynamic removing side lanes from play till drake time (it's just Riot kneejerk'd that one as usual, if they'd be more patient and people started growing weary by themselves they could make their changes with much less friction, and they'd have more time to polish them too).
However, I don't see how forcing "you will have your duo including a ranged AD in the bottom lane, and the solo in the top lane" on people is the solution. Providing alternatives (Yango mentioned taking jungle camps, and I remember a game where jungle Lee and offlane Jax jungled together for the first 3 minutes, waiting for the wave to reach the tower before he gets there and soaks the exp, that's something that could have been worked on although the golems and the wight are the hardest camps) so that the solo laner doesn't have a choice between being zoned and... being zoned, could make the situation more bearable.
You can also make changes that give incentives to mirror lanes, without forcing it. This way with tweaks both mirror and 1v2 lanes are viable (with different meanings on the champion pool: if only one situation works then it hurts the champions not suited to it, whether it be Riot's favoured setup or not) and you actually raise the game's depth.

I'm not criticising doing something to reduce 1v2 frequency below 85%, I'm criticising Riot trying to raise their choice's frequency to 100%, and doing it with a butcher's finesse (while breaking their own guidelines).


the problem is most strong 1v2 laners can also 1v1 beat most people and at least farm against any "counters". There are some mind games but you'll get only 50:50 chance to avoid the 2v1 lane. Better to just pick a guy who can both 1v1 and 2v1 and bot lanes that pick vayne will be a bit behind if it goes badly vs strong ad duelists but she's better later so its the standard tradeoff, but you get a pretty big advantage if you guess right

double jungling and going back to tower doesn't work that well because bot lane can harass them when they try to jungle for example or freeze the lane or w/e its just probably worked for shock faster and even then it only works as long as the tower is up and that's not for very long
aka Teutonica
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
January 15 2014 16:13 GMT
#217
On January 16 2014 01:11 Kenpark wrote:
Show nested quote +
What's to stop people from picking better 2v2 and/or 1v1 lanes, anticipate the swap from the enemy team, swap themselves, and force the enemy team to either deal with it or lose exp/gold by swapping again (and again)?


But how can you anticipate the swap ? Coordinated level 1 invades to get down wards are not possible in soloq. 1 guy comes at 1.10, the other runs straight to bot etc.
So its pretty much a gamble. And swapping after realizing where they went obv puts you at a big disadvantage.

If you ward out correctly in level 1's you have strong info on how lanes are mostly going to play out.
liftlift > tsm
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
January 15 2014 16:13 GMT
#218
This patch is pretty good tower changes aside. Most of the hero balancing/item balancing are well executed.
Bronze player stuck in platinum
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
January 15 2014 16:17 GMT
#219
On January 16 2014 01:03 Kenpark wrote:
Lol at the need to argue why 2on1 lanes are bad. Do you actually play the game ? Its just not fun. Not for the 1on2, not for the jungle and playing pve 2on1 isnt fun either. Also I dont think this is personal preference. Numerous top lane pros stated how they dislike 1on2.


i dont want the other team to be able to punish me for picking a weak laning champion, pls double turret damage and range.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
January 15 2014 16:19 GMT
#220
I don’t think it matters for the most of us playing soloQ since lane swap pretty much never happens.


For competitive, it will bring out more 2v2s which isn't too bad.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
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