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imre
France9263 Posts
On January 16 2014 02:37 Slayer91 wrote: ???? its always like that but then support can buy wards well atm each tower is equal regarding pushing, now bot is just way easier. + wards don't prevent every ganks lol, get vi/thresh and laugh at warding ie. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23448 Posts
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
On January 16 2014 02:24 Alzadar wrote: Thought experiment: if Runes weren't divided into types with specialties (i.e. Marks are only good for AD stats or Penetration, etc) and you simply had 30 slots into which you could place runes of any types (pretend no Quints for now), what would that do? Would everyone just run mad cheese pages like 30x AP/AD or 30x Armor? I think you might actually see an interesting mix of stats. The present system where certain runes are far and beyond the best-in-slot greatly reduces any real specialization, as it is now the only real choices are what Quintessences to run and whether to take AD or ArPen (p.s. which is better lol). Armor Yellows and MR Blues are pretty much non-negotiable, which is boring. I think your last point is not true, since Turrets lost armor but gained a resistance to champion autos. So potshots on the tower when the enemy is there will take much longer to kill it, but if your enemy leaves and you push to tower with a full wave I think it might actually die faster. If you want to min/max on anything without diminishing returns then yes I don't see any reason not to run 30 AD/AP or 30 armor/MR depending on lane matchups. A system like that would probably be better with diminishing returns. Your first AD mark = +1 damage down to your 30th AD mark = +.4 damage. Since the first rune of each type is the most efficient taking just one of each type would maximize the value of your rune page but then the downside is you have all generalist stats and no specialization. So in order to min/max you would want an example of 50/50 armor/HP or 33/33/33 armor/MR/HP setups for tanks. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On January 16 2014 02:41 Slayer91 wrote: but then theres a whole meta of counterganking that kind of thing because its stronger, seems legit which leaves your 2 tanky top even more alone, at this point you could skip this lane entirely considering the meta and make them appear at 15Minutes lol. It's just putting all the emphasis on 1/3rd of the map that's really bad. You just need a blue dependant mid on purple side (ok nobody play those anymore) and you get the full package. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
1) Removal of the 30% XP bonus from lane creeps when XP is split between 2 or more champs. It's an archaic mechanic that ONLY EXISTED to punish 1v2 in a time when Riot felt 2-1-2 should be viable against 1-1-2+jungle (an idea which they've long since abandoned). 2) Drastic reduction of level 1 vision to allow a greater threat to be made toward mid level 1. 3) Rescaling of jungle spawns to allow a top laner to safely hit level 2 before going to lane (many 1v2 laners actually become reasonable stable if they can get level 2). | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
the very fact he exists actually makes crit runes usable | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
On January 16 2014 02:38 sAsImre wrote: well atm each tower is equal regarding pushing, now bot is just way easier. + wards don't prevent every ganks lol, get vi/thresh and laugh at warding ie. Tri-lanes at bottom is the new S4 meta! But really junglers camping/ganking/pushing bot lane is going to be even more common now thanks to an easier first turret and easier early dragon on top of that which will add to the roaming mids becoming FotM. Top lane becoming a farm fest. Caitlin first picked for pushing that fast tower. On the other hand this does make it easier for a 3 man stack (with wave clear) to defend the mid tower against a full 5 man push. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23448 Posts
On January 16 2014 02:49 TheYango wrote: Also, @Teut, if we're talking about most interesting gameplay from a spectator perspective, I think 1-1-1+double roam or 1-1-1+jungle+roam makes for the most dynamic laning phase as a spectator, but Riot every season seems to buff the availability of early game vision to make that more and more like wishful thinking. yea but riot screwed that over a long time ago and it probably wont work anyway just based on the map layout its way too easy to ward up | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On January 16 2014 02:46 TheYango wrote: 1) Removal of the 30% XP bonus from lane creeps when XP is split between 2 or more champs. It's an archaic mechanic that ONLY EXISTED to punish 1v2 in a time when Riot felt 2-1-2 should be viable against 1-1-2+jungle (an idea which they've long since abandoned). 2) Drastic reduction of level 1 vision to allow a greater threat to be made toward mid level 1. 3) Rescaling of jungle spawns to allow a top laner to safely hit level 2 before going to lane (many 1v2 laners actually become reasonable stable if they can get level 2). I do like #1, it has the side effect of having support/AD be underleveled relative to mid/top but IMO that's desirable anyway. Not sure what you mean by #2, no trinkets until later? Even without any wards it's going to be real tough to gank mid early if they're on their own side. Wasn't #3 doable at some point before jungle changes? Was 1v2 any different then? | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 16 2014 02:55 Alzadar wrote: Wasn't #3 doable at some point before jungle changes? Was 1v2 any different then? It wasn't because there was no way for the 1v2 laner to actually hit 2 without either taking a buff or doing two camps, both of which impact the jungler too hard. | ||
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Kyrie
1594 Posts
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On January 16 2014 02:57 Prog wrote: Why should it be desirable to have an underleveled support? Well, it's more that it's desirable to have an overleveled top and mid. It really sucks being top laner and the enemy AD is the same level as you WTF. Also I hate Annie and I wouldn't mind seeing Jinx players punished a bit for maxing W first. | ||
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MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
On January 16 2014 02:20 Ketara wrote: So, having now tested this new spirit stone, it's waaaay more regen. Mana problems on Sejuani now completely nonexistant. Can Q every camp. However, interestingly if you try to take lane farm with skills your mana goes down fast. However, whereas SOTAG regen mid/late-game was sufficient to keep up with teamfighting mana, now it's no help at all. I noticed I wasn't able to get a full second rotation when ganking at level 6, and it made clearing waves with sunfire+W+E unsustainable. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On January 16 2014 03:14 MidnightGladius wrote: However, whereas SOTAG regen mid/late-game was sufficient to keep up with teamfighting mana, now it's no help at all. I noticed I wasn't able to get a full second rotation when ganking at level 6, and it made clearing waves with sunfire+W+E unsustainable. It favors buying some flat mana now. Regen up in jungle, and big enough mana pool to be usable in teamfights. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
On January 16 2014 02:46 TheYango wrote: 1) Removal of the 30% XP bonus from lane creeps when XP is split between 2 or more champs. It's an archaic mechanic that ONLY EXISTED to punish 1v2 in a time when Riot felt 2-1-2 should be viable against 1-1-2+jungle (an idea which they've long since abandoned). 2) Drastic reduction of level 1 vision to allow a greater threat to be made toward mid level 1. 3) Rescaling of jungle spawns to allow a top laner to safely hit level 2 before going to lane (many 1v2 laners actually become reasonable stable if they can get level 2). The issue with 3) is that it allows the bot lane to do the exact same thing and do a jungle camp, and re-raises the blue vs purple side imbalance with golems being easier to grab than wight (just plain easier to kite for a duo lane). Encourages 1v2ing, given the golem imbalance bot lane was an important reason to promote 1v2ing. Also messes with jungle exp gain. Inelegant and introduces more problems than solves (1v2ing fucking sucks for the solo laner). Of the two, 1) is ultimately a better solution, but I'm not sure what other unintended effects it may have outside of underleveling the duo lane. I'm abit leery of 2), given the trinket ward is already a short enough duration early level with a long CD. Could cut down the CD or duration abit more, but there's already ways to outplay the trinket ward (having the laner actually time/watch the ward placement and thus timing expiration/period of vulnerability early). Supports rarely start all-wards anymore (usually dshield or a coin, +1 ward). | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I'd like it if the enemy teams summoner spells didn't come up in the loading screen. That'd be awesome. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 16 2014 03:40 Lord Tolkien wrote: Of the two, 1) is ultimately a better solution, but I'm not sure what other unintended effects it may have outside of underleveling the duo lane. I'm abit leery of 2), given the trinket ward is already a short enough duration early level with a long CD. Could cut down the CD or duration abit more, but there's already ways to outplay the trinket ward (having the laner actually time/watch the ward placement and thus timing expiration/period of vulnerability early). I'm personally ok with not having any level 1 vision unless you sacrifice having items to do so. I think having "free" wards in any form is just stupid. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
On January 16 2014 03:50 Ketara wrote: You know how I'd like them to reduce level 1 vision? I'd like it if the enemy teams summoner spells didn't come up in the loading screen. That'd be awesome. But what exactly does that change besides hitting tab right after you load? | ||
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