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[Patch 4.1] Season 4 Start General Discussion - Page 14

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
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Kyrie
Profile Joined June 2013
1594 Posts
January 15 2014 18:53 GMT
#261
presumably summoners, like items, would only be known once the champion appears in vision range
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
January 15 2014 18:55 GMT
#262
That's toxic and anti fun. (/joke)

Riot doesn't want the game to be decided by strategic out-of-game choices, i.e. drafting and now hidden summoners. (Not a troll, actually said by Morello). I suspect that's one of the reasons for free wards early, so that you can have safe and stable lvl 1, and also get free vision on enemy movement to counteract 2v1

Basically instead of diversity and volatility they want a "stable" game that isn't actually stable
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
January 15 2014 18:57 GMT
#263
On January 16 2014 03:55 xes wrote:
That's toxic and anti fun. (/joke)

Riot doesn't want the game to be decided by strategic out-of-game choices, i.e. drafting and now hidden summoners. (Not a troll, actually said by Morello). I suspect that's one of the reasons for free wards early, so that you can have safe and stable lvl 1, and also get free vision on enemy movement to counteract 2v1

Basically instead of diversity and volatility they want a "stable" game that isn't actually stable

Funny enough. 2v1 stabilizes the game outcome better. Prevents 2 volatile lane match ups, it equals out side lane problems.
liftlift > tsm
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
January 15 2014 19:09 GMT
#264
--- Nuked ---
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
January 15 2014 19:13 GMT
#265
On January 16 2014 03:50 Ketara wrote:
You know how I'd like them to reduce level 1 vision?

I'd like it if the enemy teams summoner spells didn't come up in the loading screen.

That'd be awesome.

I don't get it
Bronze player stuck in platinum
LaNague
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany9118 Posts
January 15 2014 19:14 GMT
#266
On January 16 2014 04:09 JimmiC wrote:
To people who have played the new patch? Outside of the regen in the jungle anything super noticeable? Shyv players notice big drop? How how about anivia players notice big improvement? Any other observations for us guys stuck at work but curious!




i saw some more skillshots from bushes actually.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
January 15 2014 19:19 GMT
#267
On January 16 2014 03:55 xes wrote:
Basically instead of diversity and volatility they want a "stable" game that isn't actually stable

In which case frequent patching is probably a bigger destabilizing factor than anything else.
Moderator
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
January 15 2014 19:21 GMT
#268
On January 16 2014 04:19 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2014 03:55 xes wrote:
Basically instead of diversity and volatility they want a "stable" game that isn't actually stable

In which case frequent patching is probably a bigger destabilizing factor than anything else.

Patching cycles aren't as frequent as they were, back during 2-week patching/champion release cycles, while current changes have generally been even-handed.

The big changes every year, tho.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-15 19:25:16
January 15 2014 19:24 GMT
#269
Yeah i know that. My point is that if stability is their aim, then 6 month patch cycles are going to give you a much more stable game than patching every month. That doesn't mean the game is going to be better just because it's "stable".
Moderator
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
January 15 2014 19:32 GMT
#270
they want stability in the metagame, they don't want the game to grow stale with people still picking and baning the same "OP" stuff.

I'm finding more and more and more I have less things that are "must ban" with every patch, even if theres always something thats FOTM

Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
January 15 2014 19:33 GMT
#271
On January 16 2014 03:51 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2014 03:50 Ketara wrote:
You know how I'd like them to reduce level 1 vision?

I'd like it if the enemy teams summoner spells didn't come up in the loading screen.

That'd be awesome.

But what exactly does that change besides hitting tab right after you load?


If you had to actually see a champion on the minimap before you knew their summoners like you do for their items, it'd put more weight on level 1 scouting, and make it easier to do cheesy strategies like that 4 man mid rush that we saw in whatever Korean tournament it was.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-15 19:39:50
January 15 2014 19:35 GMT
#272
On January 16 2014 04:24 TheYango wrote:
Yeah i know that. My point is that if stability is their aim, then 6 month patch cycles are going to give you a much more stable game than patching every month. That doesn't mean the game is going to be better just because it's "stable".

i agree


Regarding early vision: you could reduce the duration of the trinket ward to make it a tactical choice early on, for warding off jungle invades and what not. Currently, though, perhaps reducing the trinket ward to a 30s duration levels 1-6s, and 75s from 6-9, and 120s from 9 onwards may be an acceptable duration.

Don't entirely buy it, but it's possible.

On January 16 2014 04:33 Ketara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2014 03:51 Lord Tolkien wrote:
On January 16 2014 03:50 Ketara wrote:
You know how I'd like them to reduce level 1 vision?

I'd like it if the enemy teams summoner spells didn't come up in the loading screen.

That'd be awesome.

But what exactly does that change besides hitting tab right after you load?


If you had to actually see a champion on the minimap before you knew their summoners like you do for their items, it'd put more weight on level 1 scouting, and make it easier to do cheesy strategies like that 4 man mid rush that we saw in whatever Korean tournament it was.

Oh, the APAM strat.

I don't think opening up the room for cheese makes for a fun experience lol.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
January 15 2014 19:37 GMT
#273
I was under the impression that they were going to make jungle camps spawn at 1:30 instead of 1:55, basically accelerating the game by 25 seconds. This would have reduced level 1 vision because trinkets aren't usable till 1:30.

Then they never did that. Kinda awkward.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19573 Posts
January 15 2014 19:37 GMT
#274
A lot of the early vision, and keeping people in lanes vs. double roam/earlygame blackout is a question of what you want to decide games (assuming fairly even teams, of course, none of this will affect my 5s team vs. KTBullets).

1. Do you want smart drafting, outlaning your opponents, then making good objective calls and teamfights to win games.

OR

2. Do you want fog of war and calculated, but still essentially random choices to determine games.

And the answer might not be the same for spectators and players, but #2. is certainly ass for players.
Freeeeeeedom
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
January 15 2014 19:38 GMT
#275
On January 16 2014 04:37 Ketara wrote:
I was under the impression that they were going to make jungle camps spawn at 1:30 instead of 1:55, basically accelerating the game by 25 seconds. This would have reduced level 1 vision because trinkets aren't usable till 1:30.

Then they never did that. Kinda awkward.

They were also going to do the dominion start and prevent early movement into a giant initial homeguard effect to allow players to all load up.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
Alzadar
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada5009 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-15 19:51:33
January 15 2014 19:39 GMT
#276
On January 16 2014 04:33 Ketara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2014 03:51 Lord Tolkien wrote:
On January 16 2014 03:50 Ketara wrote:
You know how I'd like them to reduce level 1 vision?

I'd like it if the enemy teams summoner spells didn't come up in the loading screen.

That'd be awesome.

But what exactly does that change besides hitting tab right after you load?


If you had to actually see a champion on the minimap before you knew their summoners like you do for their items, it'd put more weight on level 1 scouting, and make it easier to do cheesy strategies like that 4 man mid rush that we saw in whatever Korean tournament it was.


What summoners did they use in that? I don't really see what kind of secret summoner spells strategies you could have. 6/10 summoners are basically locked in stone and the other 4 are pretty predictably 1 Barrier/Cleanse, 1-3 Ignite, 0-1 Exhaust and 0-2 Teleport.

On January 16 2014 04:35 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2014 04:24 TheYango wrote:
Yeah i know that. My point is that if stability is their aim, then 6 month patch cycles are going to give you a much more stable game than patching every month. That doesn't mean the game is going to be better just because it's "stable".

i agree


Regarding early vision: you could reduce the duration of the trinket ward to make it a tactical choice early on, for warding off jungle invades and what not. Currently, though, perhaps reducing the trinket ward to a 30s duration levels 1-6s, and 75s from 6-9, and 120s from 9 onwards may be an acceptable duration.

Don't entirely buy it, but it's possible.

Show nested quote +
On January 16 2014 04:33 Ketara wrote:
On January 16 2014 03:51 Lord Tolkien wrote:
On January 16 2014 03:50 Ketara wrote:
You know how I'd like them to reduce level 1 vision?

I'd like it if the enemy teams summoner spells didn't come up in the loading screen.

That'd be awesome.

But what exactly does that change besides hitting tab right after you load?


If you had to actually see a champion on the minimap before you knew their summoners like you do for their items, it'd put more weight on level 1 scouting, and make it easier to do cheesy strategies like that 4 man mid rush that we saw in whatever Korean tournament it was.

Oh, the APAM strat.

I don't think opening up the room for cheese makes for a fun experience lol.


Maybe not for the receiving players but cheese is great fun for the perpetrators as well as for spectators, so long as it is relatively uncommon (cheese in 80% of games sucks to watch but cheese in 10% of games is exciting).
I am the Town Medic.
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
January 15 2014 19:43 GMT
#277
You missed cleanse.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
January 15 2014 19:54 GMT
#278
On January 16 2014 04:37 cLutZ wrote:
1. Do you want smart drafting, outlaning your opponents, then making good objective calls and teamfights to win games.

OR

2. Do you want fog of war and calculated, but still essentially random choices to determine games.

The way you present this dichotomy is so biased that it's absurd.
Moderator
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
January 15 2014 19:56 GMT
#279
On January 16 2014 04:35 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2014 04:24 TheYango wrote:
Yeah i know that. My point is that if stability is their aim, then 6 month patch cycles are going to give you a much more stable game than patching every month. That doesn't mean the game is going to be better just because it's "stable".

i agree


Regarding early vision: you could reduce the duration of the trinket ward to make it a tactical choice early on, for warding off jungle invades and what not. Currently, though, perhaps reducing the trinket ward to a 30s duration levels 1-6s, and 75s from 6-9, and 120s from 9 onwards may be an acceptable duration.

Don't entirely buy it, but it's possible.

Show nested quote +
On January 16 2014 04:33 Ketara wrote:
On January 16 2014 03:51 Lord Tolkien wrote:
On January 16 2014 03:50 Ketara wrote:
You know how I'd like them to reduce level 1 vision?

I'd like it if the enemy teams summoner spells didn't come up in the loading screen.

That'd be awesome.

But what exactly does that change besides hitting tab right after you load?


If you had to actually see a champion on the minimap before you knew their summoners like you do for their items, it'd put more weight on level 1 scouting, and make it easier to do cheesy strategies like that 4 man mid rush that we saw in whatever Korean tournament it was.

Oh, the APAM strat.

I don't think opening up the room for cheese makes for a fun experience lol.


Go watch the 4 mid game and tell me it's not one of the most awesome games ever.

I'm sure it's on youtube somewhere. Somebody help me find it!
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
January 15 2014 19:57 GMT
#280
On January 16 2014 04:54 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2014 04:37 cLutZ wrote:
1. Do you want smart drafting, outlaning your opponents, then making good objective calls and teamfights to win games.

OR

2. Do you want fog of war and calculated, but still essentially random choices to determine games.

The way you present this dichotomy is so biased that it's absurd.


standard "false dichotomy" logical fallacy
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