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On January 15 2014 21:20 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 21:19 Scip wrote:On January 15 2014 21:13 mr_tolkien wrote:On January 15 2014 19:03 Scip wrote:
I personally don't think he was all that strong in the jungle before nerfs anyway, I don't expect him to do well at all after these nerfs though He's not AP ofc you don't play him ! WTF tolki I play Vi and Khazix by far the most why do you keep thinking I play only AP junglers jeez I don't even play Gragas the only AP junglers I play are Eve and Elise Btw what do you think about eve jungle now. Obviously as mid she is trash now, but is she still a banworthy jungler?
It's hard to say whether or not Eve is banworthy now...
The hate spike speed nerf sounds pretty huge; she used to be able to stay on the outside edge of team fights while still outputting a ton of damage. Now she might need to be in the middle of things...but this is counterbalanced by the new sustain mechanics of Spirit of the Ancient Golem, allowing her to get that instead of Spectral Wraith, making her more tanky (plus the instant shield on her ult).
E nerf doesn't really matter, players will probably just max W before it instead.
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On January 15 2014 23:34 wei2coolman wrote:
If they wanted longer laning phase and make 2v1 mire riaky. They could have buffed all tower durability by a little, and made dragon easier to get at early part of the game (at like 6 min mark), thus making it riskier to run trilane push on top.
Agreed. Their solution is clunky as fuck, a dirty fix ontop of a dirty fix to disguise a problem rather than fix it.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
idk why anyone would want longer laning phases. srs?
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they are more fun than 2v1's and 1v2's which basically are braindead and then theres the whole aram early pushing thing which is also pretty boring
also massively limits champs you can pick for top laner to some tank that's good at 1v2
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On January 16 2014 00:11 Slayer91 wrote:
they are more fun than 2v1's and 1v2's which basically are braindead and then theres the whole aram early pushing thing which is also pretty boring
also massively limits champs you can pick for top laner to some tank that's good at 1v2
better put the restriction on botlane? + look at the top meta now lol
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On January 16 2014 00:11 Slayer91 wrote:
they are more fun than 2v1's and 1v2's which basically are braindead and then theres the whole aram early pushing thing which is also pretty boring
also massively limits champs you can pick for top laner to some tank that's good at 1v2
We discussed earlier how that it opens up botlane marginally as well though, so that aspect is a bit of a push (unless you don't value ADC diversity as much as toplane diversity, which is an understandable position).
The real problem with 2v1 is its terrible spectator-value. You can see the 3v1 coming a mile away, and teams are so good at it now that they either FB the solo easily (except stupid KTB), or just proxy and zone (usually what happens now). The proxy + zone thing is the bigger problem IMO, because that is boring to watch, and if you have ever played toplane, you feel the frustration oozing through your computer screen.
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On January 16 2014 00:08 oneofthem wrote:
idk why anyone would want longer laning phases. srs?
I'm not sure they want a longer laning phase. They just want a laning phase. Being level 1 because you're zoned from xp 1v2 while the 2 others are lvl 3 and then insta losing your tower because their jungler also comes making it a 1v3 isn't very funny. You can't see which top laner is the best 1v1 because they just have no room to play when laneswaps occur.
I'm playing the devil's advocate here by the way because I don't really believe this was needed. It is only focused on pro play since even at diamond level laneswaps are very rare and tbh I don't think pro-players have been vocal about the need for change here.
But I can see why riot prefers a "fair and square" laning phase to be able to see who are the better laners. If you watch OGN before every game they show "match-ups" like wow Shy vs Flame top this is going to be such an epic duel.... only to see a shen bot vs caitlyn thresh and a renek top vs vayne annie, it kills a bit of the hype.
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On January 16 2014 00:11 Slayer91 wrote:
they are more fun than 2v1's and 1v2's which basically are braindead and then theres the whole aram early pushing thing which is also pretty boring
also massively limits champs you can pick for top laner to some tank that's good at 1v2
And you don't think this change is going to favour duelist ADC champs massively?
Koggles is practically dead already.
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On January 16 2014 00:15 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2014 00:11 Slayer91 wrote:
they are more fun than 2v1's and 1v2's which basically are braindead and then theres the whole aram early pushing thing which is also pretty boring
also massively limits champs you can pick for top laner to some tank that's good at 1v2 better only allow 3 adc to be picked.
Which ADCs are unpickable in 2v2 lanes? Some might do poorly but the requirements are nowhere near as stringent as what it takes for a champion to 1v2 well.
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On January 16 2014 00:18 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2014 00:11 Slayer91 wrote:
they are more fun than 2v1's and 1v2's which basically are braindead and then theres the whole aram early pushing thing which is also pretty boring
also massively limits champs you can pick for top laner to some tank that's good at 1v2 And you don't think this change is going to favour duelist ADC champs massively? Koggles is practically dead already.
so what? there are tons of champions that suck because they can't lane well. do people even play kog anyway? people just play vayne or trist or something.
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On January 16 2014 00:20 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2014 00:15 sAsImre wrote:On January 16 2014 00:11 Slayer91 wrote:
they are more fun than 2v1's and 1v2's which basically are braindead and then theres the whole aram early pushing thing which is also pretty boring
also massively limits champs you can pick for top laner to some tank that's good at 1v2 better only allow 3 adc to be picked. Which ADCs are unpickable in 2v2 lanes? Some might do poorly but the requirements are nowhere near as stringent as what it takes for a champion to 1v2 well.
cait/lucian/jinx trust approximately 90% of the picks but there is no pbm...
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On January 15 2014 23:58 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 22:28 brokenwatch wrote:
Riot is steadily getting worse and worse at balancing.These changes are ridiculous. I'm quitting lol and I know I'm not the only one. At least until riot reconsiders it's direction. then what will you do with your free time borked all the changes are good too I dunno why everyone complains about every patch in every game ever
I'm curious as to how you'll justify calling the tower changes "good".
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Hey I like Kog. Stop hating on Kog.
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Baa?21247 Posts
kog is super kawaii and really that's all that matters :3
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On January 16 2014 00:38 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 23:58 Slayer91 wrote:On January 15 2014 22:28 brokenwatch wrote:
Riot is steadily getting worse and worse at balancing.These changes are ridiculous. I'm quitting lol and I know I'm not the only one. At least until riot reconsiders it's direction. then what will you do with your free time borked all the changes are good too I dunno why everyone complains about every patch in every game ever I'm curious as to how you'll justify calling the tower changes "good".
1v2/2v1 lanes are bad gameplay
this change discourages going 1v2 2v1 lanes
any further questions your honour?
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On January 16 2014 00:40 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2014 00:38 Alaric wrote:On January 15 2014 23:58 Slayer91 wrote:On January 15 2014 22:28 brokenwatch wrote:
Riot is steadily getting worse and worse at balancing.These changes are ridiculous. I'm quitting lol and I know I'm not the only one. At least until riot reconsiders it's direction. then what will you do with your free time borked all the changes are good too I dunno why everyone complains about every patch in every game ever I'm curious as to how you'll justify calling the tower changes "good". 1v2/2v1 lanes are bad gameplay this change discourages going 1v2 2v1 lanes any further questions your honour?
I never got why people thought 1v2/2v1 lanes were bad gameplay. Does anybody care to explain? Imo it's just strategy, and always 2v2 bottom was not that much more interesting either.
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Yeah: worded this way it sounds like "I don't care about the way they do it as long as the result is there".
So if Riot disliked camping and level 2 ganks (well, they did actually), would it have been good if they set up barriers on every jungle entrances but the ones leading to one's base until the 6th minute?
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On January 16 2014 00:39 cLutZ wrote:
Hey I like Kog. Stop hating on Kog.
Kog is real boring anyway, the most interesting thing he does is die. Basically ever ADC is better to watch than him. Plus Jinx exists and she is Kog'Maw supreme: better laning, better damage, comparable poke that can also start fights, equal self-peel, useful passive, and she has the same range except she gets it when she wants it, no awkward cooldown. Don't even need to mention totally bonkers 130% AS at short range plus AoE auto attacks at 700 range.
p.s. I just realized that the icon for Kog's Q is a melted helmet, not some big void booger
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On January 16 2014 00:43 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2014 00:40 Slayer91 wrote:On January 16 2014 00:38 Alaric wrote:On January 15 2014 23:58 Slayer91 wrote:On January 15 2014 22:28 brokenwatch wrote:
Riot is steadily getting worse and worse at balancing.These changes are ridiculous. I'm quitting lol and I know I'm not the only one. At least until riot reconsiders it's direction. then what will you do with your free time borked all the changes are good too I dunno why everyone complains about every patch in every game ever I'm curious as to how you'll justify calling the tower changes "good". 1v2/2v1 lanes are bad gameplay this change discourages going 1v2 2v1 lanes any further questions your honour? I never got why people thought 1v2/2v1 lanes were bad gameplay. Does anybody care to explain? Imo it's just strategy, and always 2v2 bottom was not that much more interesting either.
removes laning phase from the game basically, and forces you to pick some tank that's good 1v2 and a bot lane that's good in teamfights
removes tons of gameplay and potential to outplay opponents
basically all 1v2 2v1 games follow the exact pattern and it turns into aram very fast
also removes most of the power from junglers/supports and top lanes because top/jungle get tied up without much farm and supports don't have anything to do bottom so all the power comes from mid lane and the adc
On January 16 2014 00:44 Alaric wrote:
Yeah: worded this way it sounds like "I don't care about the way they do it as long as the result is there".
So if Riot disliked camping and level 2 ganks (well, they did actually), would it have been good if they set up barriers on every jungle entrances but the ones leading to one's base until the 6th minute?
they disliked "camping" because it lead to really passive gameplay and generally meant junglers had no power later on so you have to pick a tank all the time so you won't be useless later and if the best play is to gank all the time it removes a lot of decision making and also forces laners to play passively reducing the skill element of early game again
your decision to have a NR 6 minute strat would be even worse, I know you're trying to give an example of why such forcing changes are bad but you completely miss the intelligent thought process and just latch on to the most retarded explanation for riots behaviour
inelegant changes like this are to be avoided at risk of removing fun gameplay unintentionally but they know the gameplay they are targeting so it seems reasonable.
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EPT
