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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On December 18 2013 08:01 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i hope ocelote isn't picking chaox because of his popularity, there has to be plenty of EU ADs who are much better.
Also with VES, everyone I asked seems to think they're awful and are guaranteed to lose. But they have so much more experience than the amateur teams and LANs are a different game than online. I can honestly see them crushing TBD.
I'm honestly a bit surprised that he didn't grab MrRallez.
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On December 18 2013 06:04 Ryuu314 wrote:The Riven nerfs: It scales off of total AD now. At level 1 if you open Doran's it deals ~35 damage now, it used to do ~35 damage. At level 18 with say a BT and bruta it deals ~180 damage, it used to do ~218 damage. So it's roughly a ~15% damage decrease with these items. Honestly, I don't think it's that bad. Nasus nerfs are hilariously stupid imo. It's like Riot completely forgot why he became popular in the first place. Whither down to 500 range means he'll be trash tier again. It's like Riot still hasn't learned what range nerfs do to champions coughRyzecough. First big buff on patch V1.0.0.123 where buffed his passive so Nasus can actually lane/jungle without getting shat on. Also made his Whither relevant with cd, mana cost, and tenacity changes. Then next big buff on patch V3.02 which lowered Q cost and more importantly range increases on ult. Now they revert all of those buffs (plus they add a huge nerf) so the only thing Nasus gets out of all this is Q stacks for 3/6 damage, which is useless without much of anything else to support that. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see Nasus very much in competitive play and he's certainly not up there with Shyvana/Mundo/Rengar. After checking, Nasus was picked twice to a loss as a jungler in OGN, ignored in Battle of the Atlantic, and mostly ignored in NACL (other than Coast picking him somewhat regularly, he doesn't really make any appearances).
if they remove 1 damage from a hero they're basically unplayable to 99% of the league community, should really take everyone crying and panicking with a grain of salt tbh.
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in the reality of 116 champions average is worse than ~30 champions at your role.
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I agree that nasus didn't need to be hit that hard. He's mostly on the def tree bandwagon along with mundo rengar shyv etc. the champ itself didn't really need a change. They should just nerf def a bit more.
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Guess it comes back to that whole "do we balance for pros or for joes?". Riven and Nasus have hardly been annihilating the pro scene, but the both see a metric fucktonne of whine from the regular punter. The amount of times I get asked to ban Nasus does my head in.
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On December 18 2013 06:00 thenexusp wrote:
I feel like bonus AD->total AD is a recent trend that Riot's been doing, along with s3's %health damage and s2's %armor reduction trends
I just find this amusing because back in S1/S2 they were doing tons of total AD -> bonus AD switches.
Riven's math with the 0.4-0.6 ratio is like.... super close to unchanged. It encourages armor pen a bit, but the AD came out to something like <5 damage difference at level 18 with Hydra BC LW on a single swipe of Q, and <1 damage at level 9 with a completed hydra. At lower AD levels, you actually benefit from the change. Might make her less supersnowbally.
That duration change to valor though - that's going to be much harder to deal with. it's a change that will affect the "joes" much more heavily than the "pros."
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Nasus nerf is pretty huge but he still has the same issue of being able to stack Q to max without any need for mana regen items or runes because it costs like no mana, they should do something about that. At least make him need to use mana potions or pretend that he has a mana pool. Well, it just might be that this nerf is enough to make him weaker later on but he still lanes in the same way because most of his opponents are melee anyway. He should have much more kiting issues in the lategame.
Riven nerfs aren't that big if the ratios actually are 0.4, 0.45, 0.5, 0.55, 0.6 like in the comments on the RoG site someone is saying, instead of 0.4 everywhere. This actually would make her deal mostly more damage, especially if the player decides to focus more on armor penetration instead of flat AD.
At lvl 18, Riven's Q would deal 152 base instead of 130 base, so for the new Q to deal less damage at level 18, she would need to have over ~220 bonus AD. This in my opinion means that she should be going for armor penetration marks, and while Q at lvl 1 is weaker with more than ~7 bonus AD, at Q lvl 2 it again should be comparable and would most likely pass the old Q especially if she goes for a build path like Brutalizer instead of rushing a BF Sword or whatever. If she maxes Q first, at lvl 9 she would have her Q deal around 137 base damage vs the 130 before, so she would need around 70 bonus AD for the new Q to be weaker. This would also make Riven scale better with levels and worse with items than before, obviously.
This is all assuming that the poster is correct and it really is 0.4, 0.45, 0.5, 0.55, 0.6, I have no way of testing.
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On December 18 2013 07:28 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 02:01 cLutZ wrote:On December 18 2013 01:02 Alaric wrote:
Sion-level "if you say this I'll call you on everything being viable in Bronze" (or Olaf'd/Eve'd status) What? + I think most champions fit 4 Categories (Jungle as Example): Competitive(Elise/Lee/etc); Niche-But-Smart-Players-Will-Ruin-Your-Day(Amumu/Rammus);Objectively-Worse-Than-A-Similar-Pick-From-Tier-2 (Sejuani/Udyr); WTF-Tier (Warwick). So my Penta on Warwick musta been impressive if he's so bad 
Only if it was Jungle WW. We all know support WW is OP  
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Sorry about posting about ancient things, but there was a post about Zac being a failure. I actually LOVE laning against Zac, in my opinion it's a very very fun lane and a very unique experience. It's extremely interesting to look for his blobs, where they might fall, and use my skills to get to them first. For example, if I manage to stomp 2 blobs in a row the Zac is suddenly very low in hp and immediately on the backfoot. It rewards skill in a completely different realm of any other champions and I'd love for more things like this to be in the game.
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please excuse this completely subjective shitpost (sorry gahlo)
fuck riven and i hope they keep nerfing her right out of the game. i've hated her since i started playing, nevermind this recent bandwagon. fucking assholes in dominion with their battle bunny skins spamming their bullshitf dasfiaohdsfiadsohaods.
that being said, i do enjoy jungling riven.
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On December 18 2013 09:09 Shikyo wrote:
Sorry about posting about ancient things, but there was a post about Zac being a failure. I actually LOVE laning against Zac, in my opinion it's a very very fun lane and a very unique experience. It's extremely interesting to look for his blobs, where they might fall, and use my skills to get to them first. For example, if I manage to stomp 2 blobs in a row the Zac is suddenly very low in hp and immediately on the backfoot. It rewards skill in a completely different realm of any other champions and I'd love for more things like this to be in the game.
It works like that now, when he first came out you couldn't actually stomp his blobs unless he was brain dead.
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On December 18 2013 08:52 JazzVortical wrote:
Guess it comes back to that whole "do we balance for pros or for joes?". Riven and Nasus have hardly been annihilating the pro scene, but the both see a metric fucktonne of whine from the regular punter. The amount of times I get asked to ban Nasus does my head in.
Maybe by balancing Riven/Nasus, they get removed from pub play and thus the professional scene will mirror pub play more accurately.
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On December 18 2013 09:26 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 09:09 Shikyo wrote:
Sorry about posting about ancient things, but there was a post about Zac being a failure. I actually LOVE laning against Zac, in my opinion it's a very very fun lane and a very unique experience. It's extremely interesting to look for his blobs, where they might fall, and use my skills to get to them first. For example, if I manage to stomp 2 blobs in a row the Zac is suddenly very low in hp and immediately on the backfoot. It rewards skill in a completely different realm of any other champions and I'd love for more things like this to be in the game. It works like that now, when he first came out you couldn't actually stomp his blobs unless he was brain dead.
Yup that was stupid when you could never beat him to the blobs, now I really like it though. My biggest issue with Zac, though, actually was when we would catch him with 4 and he would just ult and trololo out through our chaincc.
Is he really unusable now, though? I think he still offers a lot...
I need to find a replacement for "though", annoying.
Oh, there was a Draven discussion as well. I actually haven't seen a single one in forever so cannot say anything at all.
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Will Zac see a rebirth in lane with the current state of top? Nothing says manaless, sustainy, tanky engaging jerkface like Zac.
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On December 18 2013 09:09 Shikyo wrote:
Sorry about posting about ancient things, but there was a post about Zac being a failure. I actually LOVE laning against Zac, in my opinion it's a very very fun lane and a very unique experience. It's extremely interesting to look for his blobs, where they might fall, and use my skills to get to them first. For example, if I manage to stomp 2 blobs in a row the Zac is suddenly very low in hp and immediately on the backfoot. It rewards skill in a completely different realm of any other champions and I'd love for more things like this to be in the game.
The last round of nerfs on Zac (removing the tenacity from his ult and extending blob range to 1000 from 700) is what finally put the nail in the coffin of Zac in pro play. The range itself was probably needed but the tenacity loss was a bit too much IMO.
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On December 18 2013 08:59 Shikyo wrote:
Nasus nerf is pretty huge but he still has the same issue of being able to stack Q to max without any need for mana regen items or runes because it costs like no mana, they should do something about that. At least make him need to use mana potions or pretend that he has a mana pool. Well, it just might be that this nerf is enough to make him weaker later on but he still lanes in the same way because most of his opponents are melee anyway. He should have much more kiting issues in the lategame.
Riven nerfs aren't that big if the ratios actually are 0.4, 0.45, 0.5, 0.55, 0.6 like in the comments on the RoG site someone is saying, instead of 0.4 everywhere. This actually would make her deal mostly more damage, especially if the player decides to focus more on armor penetration instead of flat AD.
At lvl 18, Riven's Q would deal 152 base instead of 130 base, so for the new Q to deal less damage at level 18, she would need to have over ~220 bonus AD. This in my opinion means that she should be going for armor penetration marks, and while Q at lvl 1 is weaker with more than ~7 bonus AD, at Q lvl 2 it again should be comparable and would most likely pass the old Q especially if she goes for a build path like Brutalizer instead of rushing a BF Sword or whatever. If she maxes Q first, at lvl 9 she would have her Q deal around 137 base damage vs the 130 before, so she would need around 70 bonus AD for the new Q to be weaker. This would also make Riven scale better with levels and worse with items than before, obviously.
This is all assuming that the poster is correct and it really is 0.4, 0.45, 0.5, 0.55, 0.6, I have no way of testing.
Weaker at level 1 actually is a pretty big impact, Riven wins a lot of lanes by just having a monstrous level 1 presence.
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On December 18 2013 08:59 Shikyo wrote:
Nasus nerf is pretty huge but he still has the same issue of being able to stack Q to max without any need for mana regen items or runes because it costs like no mana, they should do something about that. At least make him need to use mana potions or pretend that he has a mana pool. Well, it just might be that this nerf is enough to make him weaker later on but he still lanes in the same way because most of his opponents are melee anyway. He should have much more kiting issues in the lategame.
Riven nerfs aren't that big if the ratios actually are 0.4, 0.45, 0.5, 0.55, 0.6 like in the comments on the RoG site someone is saying, instead of 0.4 everywhere. This actually would make her deal mostly more damage, especially if the player decides to focus more on armor penetration instead of flat AD.
At lvl 18, Riven's Q would deal 152 base instead of 130 base, so for the new Q to deal less damage at level 18, she would need to have over ~220 bonus AD. This in my opinion means that she should be going for armor penetration marks, and while Q at lvl 1 is weaker with more than ~7 bonus AD, at Q lvl 2 it again should be comparable and would most likely pass the old Q especially if she goes for a build path like Brutalizer instead of rushing a BF Sword or whatever. If she maxes Q first, at lvl 9 she would have her Q deal around 137 base damage vs the 130 before, so she would need around 70 bonus AD for the new Q to be weaker. This would also make Riven scale better with levels and worse with items than before, obviously.
This is all assuming that the poster is correct and it really is 0.4, 0.45, 0.5, 0.55, 0.6, I have no way of testing.
Riven should have been using Arpen marks since her passive change.
On December 18 2013 09:37 sylverfyre wrote:
Weaker at level 1 actually is a pretty big impact, Riven wins a lot of lanes by just having a monstrous level 1 presence.
The early game is already stronger than people are letting themselves be by not using ArPen marks.
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On December 18 2013 09:37 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 08:59 Shikyo wrote:
Nasus nerf is pretty huge but he still has the same issue of being able to stack Q to max without any need for mana regen items or runes because it costs like no mana, they should do something about that. At least make him need to use mana potions or pretend that he has a mana pool. Well, it just might be that this nerf is enough to make him weaker later on but he still lanes in the same way because most of his opponents are melee anyway. He should have much more kiting issues in the lategame.
Riven nerfs aren't that big if the ratios actually are 0.4, 0.45, 0.5, 0.55, 0.6 like in the comments on the RoG site someone is saying, instead of 0.4 everywhere. This actually would make her deal mostly more damage, especially if the player decides to focus more on armor penetration instead of flat AD.
At lvl 18, Riven's Q would deal 152 base instead of 130 base, so for the new Q to deal less damage at level 18, she would need to have over ~220 bonus AD. This in my opinion means that she should be going for armor penetration marks, and while Q at lvl 1 is weaker with more than ~7 bonus AD, at Q lvl 2 it again should be comparable and would most likely pass the old Q especially if she goes for a build path like Brutalizer instead of rushing a BF Sword or whatever. If she maxes Q first, at lvl 9 she would have her Q deal around 137 base damage vs the 130 before, so she would need around 70 bonus AD for the new Q to be weaker. This would also make Riven scale better with levels and worse with items than before, obviously.
This is all assuming that the poster is correct and it really is 0.4, 0.45, 0.5, 0.55, 0.6, I have no way of testing. Weaker at level 1 actually is a pretty big impact, Riven wins a lot of lanes by just having a monstrous level 1 presence.
Oh, still? Well eh, I haven't had that issue, I thought that she wasn't really scary until she got all her skills and especially at 6. Weird.
On December 18 2013 09:42 Gahlo wrote:
Riven should have been using Arpen marks since her passive change.
I know, didn't I do some math for that?=P
On December 18 2013 02:45 turdburgler wrote:
hahah look at this guy, thinking solo q players have a fucking clue about peeling for people.
This depends, from my experience. We were vs Khazix and I was a fed Swain, we had caitlyn and Janna run awaaay and both got killed, then I told them to not run away and stay next to me, the next teamfight they did and so while the Caitlyn died, I killed the Khazix and we won the teamfight easily. In my opinion the biggest mistake the ADCs make is running away from help.
This is also apparent when I play someone like Mundo. If the ADC runs away from everyone, they're doomed, but if they say next to their team they are much more difficult to kill. While at times the team really does a bad job peeling, a lot of the time the ADC just runs away and isolates themselves - This happens far more often than the team actually being bad at peeling from my experience.
Disclaimer: This is from my experience in solo queue, no progames.
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On December 18 2013 09:43 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 09:37 sylverfyre wrote:On December 18 2013 08:59 Shikyo wrote:
Nasus nerf is pretty huge but he still has the same issue of being able to stack Q to max without any need for mana regen items or runes because it costs like no mana, they should do something about that. At least make him need to use mana potions or pretend that he has a mana pool. Well, it just might be that this nerf is enough to make him weaker later on but he still lanes in the same way because most of his opponents are melee anyway. He should have much more kiting issues in the lategame.
Riven nerfs aren't that big if the ratios actually are 0.4, 0.45, 0.5, 0.55, 0.6 like in the comments on the RoG site someone is saying, instead of 0.4 everywhere. This actually would make her deal mostly more damage, especially if the player decides to focus more on armor penetration instead of flat AD.
At lvl 18, Riven's Q would deal 152 base instead of 130 base, so for the new Q to deal less damage at level 18, she would need to have over ~220 bonus AD. This in my opinion means that she should be going for armor penetration marks, and while Q at lvl 1 is weaker with more than ~7 bonus AD, at Q lvl 2 it again should be comparable and would most likely pass the old Q especially if she goes for a build path like Brutalizer instead of rushing a BF Sword or whatever. If she maxes Q first, at lvl 9 she would have her Q deal around 137 base damage vs the 130 before, so she would need around 70 bonus AD for the new Q to be weaker. This would also make Riven scale better with levels and worse with items than before, obviously.
This is all assuming that the poster is correct and it really is 0.4, 0.45, 0.5, 0.55, 0.6, I have no way of testing. Weaker at level 1 actually is a pretty big impact, Riven wins a lot of lanes by just having a monstrous level 1 presence. Oh, still? Well eh, I haven't had that issue, I thought that she wasn't really scary until she got all her skills and especially at 6. Weird. Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 09:42 Gahlo wrote:
Riven should have been using Arpen marks since her passive change. I know, didn't I do some math for that?=P Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 02:45 turdburgler wrote:
hahah look at this guy, thinking solo q players have a fucking clue about peeling for people. This depends, from my experience. We were vs Khazix and I was a fed Swain, we had caitlyn and Janna run awaaay and both got killed, then I told them to not run away and stay next to me, the next teamfight they did and so while the Caitlyn died, I killed the Khazix and we won the teamfight easily. In my opinion the biggest mistake the ADCs make is running away from help.
Not even ADC's.
Everyone runs away from their team because they dumb. In general, LoL players have bad map awareness. If these guys played BW they'd lose their entire mineral line to reavers every 30 seconds.
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EPT
