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On December 18 2013 04:45 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 04:41 Haiq343 wrote:On December 18 2013 04:33 NeoIllusions wrote:[*] @cLutZ: To single you for one of your posts today because not only did it rub me the wrong way but because it is also bad posting, please actually support what you say. If you think Zac is a design failure, then explain why. He was certainly not a failure in the beginning considering how dominant he was in NA and EU LCS (especially in NA as Meteos using Zac as a lynchpin for a number of C9's comps). He fell after after spring split but that's for various other reasons but certainly not because it was a failure in design. Other than that, I encourage everyone to be cordial to your fellow TL LoL users and have a good time this holiday season. I read ClutZ's point was that Zac was a design failure because he was comically overpowered, his kit gave him too much with the hp regen, damage scaling from defensive items and the initiation range + GA passive. I don't think anyone thought Zac was too weak over the spring. Seems like a legit critique, especially given current Renekton, Shyv, Mundo, Rengar and the resourceless revolution. Well the way I read it was that he was saying was that a champion that is resourceless, free hp regen and amazing initiation is too hard to balance to be considered a design succes.
You are both right. If making a champion that is dominant is considered a success you could make any champion a success. You could triple Alistar's base HP and halve his cooldowns turning him into a ridiculous monster, but that is not a success. In fact that is basically a parody of the old Zac.
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On December 18 2013 04:54 Osmoses wrote:
Holy fucking shit they just GUTTED Riven oO
i know isn't it great?
#TYBG
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Nah, Alistar goes oom too fast with his current pool.
lol.
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going to total ad will inevitably nerf her scaling no?
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On December 18 2013 05:18 Slusher wrote:
going to total ad will inevitably nerf her scaling no?
Guys they don't know what they're going to do with Riven yet, but they've said that nothing more than a slight nerf is gonna happen here. Calm down. She's still going to 1v2 you and the jungler at 6
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On December 18 2013 05:18 Slusher wrote:
going to total ad will inevitably nerf her scaling no?
If they lower the ratio, yes.
On December 18 2013 05:20 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 05:18 Slusher wrote:
going to total ad will inevitably nerf her scaling no? Guys they don't know what they're going to do with Riven yet, but they've said that nothing more than a slight nerf is gonna happen here. Calm down. She's still going to 1v2 you and the jungler at 6
2 people at low HP that don't space properly trying to fight a 6 riven deserve to be 1v2d.
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maybe its just me not being very good, but Ive never understood the fuss about Riven. hard cc shuts her down hard, and she's intended to be strong 1v1, she's an ok teamfighter unless the opponents have no cc at all.
that being said the changes don't seem too bad. the good rivens will still be scary, the bad rivens will be terrible though.
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I just find scaling (as opposed to base) nerfs to be the more boring variety, it's why I hated the Fizz nerfs despite him still being a great champion afterward.
(fed people should kill people)
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Worst thing in this patch:
+ Show Spoiler +They switched back the running animation for Soraka
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Okay, now that Q has for sure taken a ratio hit, Riven is fucked if these go through.
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On December 18 2013 05:39 Gahlo wrote:
Okay, now that Q has for sure taken a ratio hit, Riven is fucked if these go through.
yeah, please let it happen
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On December 18 2013 05:42 SagaZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 05:39 Gahlo wrote:
Okay, now that Q has for sure taken a ratio hit, Riven is fucked if these go through. yeah, please let it happen
Literally Olaf'd.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
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This is just my opinion, but the Riven nerfs are pretty heavy-handed. The reason you see Riven so much in pro games and solo Q is that her E gets to be at such a low CD that you don't need to build much (if any) defensive items on her, as the AD scaling on it is pretty nice, and the duration is just long enough where you won't get bursted down instantly. The nerfs to her Q seem unnecessary, but if the E change goes through I think that'll be enough to make her reasonable again. If you want to continue to build all AD on her go ahead, but that short of a duration on her E means you can't just E-Qx3-W to the back line and cause havoc, as the E will wear off mid Q chain. The change on just her E should pull her back in line and force people to build defensive items on her (probably Randuins and Banshees), which is what most people wanted.
Nerf to Nasus is fine, Wither is a pretty strong skill. Shyvana nerf is very light, which I'm ok with. The various abilities that don't reveal stealthed champs is odd but I think I'm ok with it, not sure how it'll affect pro play. Rest of the item changes I don't really care about as they're not for SR. The changes to the red trinket though seems pretty ill-advised.
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I feel like bonus AD->total AD is a recent trend that Riot's been doing, along with s3's %health damage and s2's %armor reduction trends
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The Riven nerfs:
It scales off of total AD now. At level 1 if you open Doran's it deals ~35 damage now, it used to do ~35 damage. At level 18 with say a BT and bruta it deals ~180 damage, it used to do ~218 damage. So it's roughly a ~15% damage decrease with these items. Honestly, I don't think it's that bad.
Nasus nerfs are hilariously stupid imo. It's like Riot completely forgot why he became popular in the first place. Whither down to 500 range means he'll be trash tier again. It's like Riot still hasn't learned what range nerfs do to champions coughRyzecough.
First big buff on patch V1.0.0.123 where buffed his passive so Nasus can actually lane/jungle without getting shat on. Also made his Whither relevant with cd, mana cost, and tenacity changes. Then next big buff on patch V3.02 which lowered Q cost and more importantly range increases on ult.
Now they revert all of those buffs (plus they add a huge nerf) so the only thing Nasus gets out of all this is Q stacks for 3/6 damage, which is useless without much of anything else to support that. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see Nasus very much in competitive play and he's certainly not up there with Shyvana/Mundo/Rengar. After checking, Nasus was picked twice to a loss as a jungler in OGN, ignored in Battle of the Atlantic, and mostly ignored in NACL (other than Coast picking him somewhat regularly, he doesn't really make any appearances).
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naa people will just play him how i think he should be played ;D a tank melter who peels. who needs wither range then  iceborn gauntlet nasus all day every day.
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I think Nasus nerfs are just Riot reacting to solo q idiots who don't understand that if you let Nasus sit there and farm Q stacks, then refuse to buy QSS/take cleanse on your AD carry means you're gonna have a bad time.
The argument could be made that S4 defensive masteries make it easier for Nasus to survive in lane, but then Riot should look into nerfing masteries more, especially considering how they're also contributing to the Shyv/Mundo/Rengar tank trio.
Nasus being a dedicated tank melter/peeler is stupid. Why would a team want to dedicate top lane slot and farm to someone who does nothing but slow the enemy tank who has a crapton of tenacity via masteries+items. You could just pick Taric, Lulu, Thresh, Annie, Sona for virtually the same effect and still have your top lane slot open.
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no way lOL chaox and N-rated that's kinda awesome haha
chaox did just post on twitter tha big news are coming soon.
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On December 18 2013 06:04 Ryuu314 wrote:
The Riven nerfs:
It scales off of total AD now. At level 1 if you open Doran's it deals ~35 damage now, it used to do ~35 damage. At level 18 with say a BT and bruta it deals ~180 damage, it used to do ~218 damage. So it's roughly a ~15% damage decrease with these items. Honestly, I don't think it's that bad.
Thing is, if you get to 18 and all you have is Brut/BT, you were already useless anyway. The at .4total, the more AD you build(the whole point of Riven) the further and further you fall behind prenerf damage. What is the point of Riven if she doesn't have near assassin level damage? She can't build in a bruiser fashion and be relevant without serious work from Riot to clean up the mess.
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EPT
