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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On December 17 2013 12:44 Slusher wrote: You know they should just code CDR to work at half efficiency on 0 mana/energy cost spells similar to how aoe/st coding works on spell vamp. it's so obvious it hurts. It's such unintuitive design it hurts. Spell vamp is a pretty niche stat, CDR is not. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On December 17 2013 13:20 cLutZ wrote: I mean, the True Damage isn't necessarily an issue. But you can see right now with Olaf that even minor changes to a champ that can shrug off CC who does decent damage is very dangerous. His rework really hasn't changed much in the way of making him easier to balance. And his kit (also Irelia) isn't even top 10 difficulty. I'm so glad nobody plays Olaf anymore. Hopefully he can stay fucking dumb and obscure for a few months or so. | ||
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YouGotNothin
United States907 Posts
On December 17 2013 12:44 JazzVortical wrote: I agree. I don't own yasuo, but from playing against him, the glass cannon builds just get exploded before anything happens. The best build I saw was ghostblade, shiv, raduins and banshees. I am glad someone has tried ghostblade on Yasuo, I don't own him but it just seems so nice on him, i don't know how much he likes CDR but every other stat seems great for him and the active seems like it would be nice to use post-ult to get off more autos while you have the extra armor pen. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On December 17 2013 13:47 Gahlo wrote: I'm so glad nobody plays Olaf anymore. Hopefully he can stay fucking dumb and obscure for a few months or so. Sarcasm? I mean, cus he went from crap to must pick/ban with a 20% change to his slow and W | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On December 17 2013 13:20 cLutZ wrote: I mean, the True Damage isn't necessarily an issue. But you can see right now with Olaf that even minor changes to a champ that can shrug off CC who does decent damage is very dangerous. His rework really hasn't changed much in the way of making him easier to balance. And his kit (also Irelia) isn't even top 10 difficulty. Iunno...maybe it's because there are more op options right now but Olaf doesn't seem too bad atm. His pick/ban and winrates in competitive are solid, but nothing too absurd. Could just be masked by how powerful jungle Elise and Lee See are, but Olaf's stats seem ok and balanceable. OGN stats: Link Sub 50% winrate with 52% pick/ban rate. He's strong for sure, but can be tuned down. I'm more surprised Elise hasn't received any more nerfs yet. The biggest problem about Irelia is imo her passive. 40% free tenacity is just ridiculous. If she deals good damage, then she becomes a problem the way old Olaf was a problem. If she doesn't do damage, then she's ignorable and thus bad like she is now. | ||
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GozoShioda
205 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
On December 17 2013 14:06 Ryuu314 wrote: Iunno...maybe it's because there are more op options right now but Olaf doesn't seem too bad atm. His pick/ban and winrates in competitive are solid, but nothing too absurd. Could just be masked by how powerful jungle Elise and Lee See are, but Olaf's stats seem ok and balanceable. OGN stats: Link Sub 50% winrate with 52% pick/ban rate. He's strong for sure, but can be tuned down. I'm more surprised Elise hasn't received any more nerfs yet. The biggest problem about Irelia is imo her passive. 40% free tenacity is just ridiculous. If she deals good damage, then she becomes a problem the way old Olaf was a problem. If she doesn't do damage, then she's ignorable and thus bad like she is now. win rate statistics on such a small sample size of teams with wide ranging levels of skill mean almost absolutely nothing. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On December 17 2013 14:14 chalice wrote: win rate statistics on such a small sample size of teams with wide ranging levels of skill mean almost absolutely nothing. lol ok. those stats are from four weeks of OGN games, which are arguably the highest level League games we have. In solo queue, he's picked in less than 9% of games with a 47% winrate. In Diamond, it goes up to ~10% pickrate with 40% winrate. Large enough sample size? Heck, if we add in Battle of the Atlantic, in the 4 non-relegation games, Olaf was banned once and picked once into a loss. Not saying he's weak - Olaf is definitely strong, easily top 3~4 jungle picks right now. But it's nothing like his pre-rework status. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On December 17 2013 14:06 Ryuu314 wrote: Iunno...maybe it's because there are more op options right now but Olaf doesn't seem too bad atm. His pick/ban and winrates in competitive are solid, but nothing too absurd. Could just be masked by how powerful jungle Elise and Lee See are, but Olaf's stats seem ok and balanceable. OGN stats: Link Sub 50% winrate with 52% pick/ban rate. He's strong for sure, but can be tuned down. I'm more surprised Elise hasn't received any more nerfs yet. The biggest problem about Irelia is imo her passive. 40% free tenacity is just ridiculous. If she deals good damage, then she becomes a problem the way old Olaf was a problem. If she doesn't do damage, then she's ignorable and thus bad like she is now. Olaf is not terribly OP right now (just very strong, after, I would remind you, being weak before with only minor changes), but I don't see him staying at those levels once the game is changed in the slightest. And I mean, even in OGN players are terribly misusing his ult and basically absorbing half the damage they could by just standing there and not ulting. That is just an inherent problem with his new kit where he has an initiation ult that you don't want to initiate with, which is also a disengage ult you don't really want to disengage with. Edit: The difference between rework, and pre-rework Olaf is that the latter had a kit that made sense, and was OP because of a temporary situation caused by S3 changes (and his numbers), the former is strong because his kit makes no sense, but wherever/whenever he gets to use it sensibly he just destroys people. If teams figure him out he will drop out, or if they figure out how to ult properly (also, elise nerfs lol) FOTM. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On December 17 2013 14:29 Slusher wrote: I honestly don't know what Elise will take at this point, after the armor/mr nerfs I thought that was it, boy was I wrong lol yea me too... Elise needs a cockroach skin. | ||
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
On December 17 2013 14:15 Ryuu314 wrote: lol ok. those stats are from four weeks of OGN games, which are arguably the highest level League games we have. In solo queue, he's picked in less than 9% of games with a 47% winrate. In Diamond, it goes up to ~10% pickrate with 40% winrate. Large enough sample size? Heck, if we add in Battle of the Atlantic, in the 4 non-relegation games, Olaf was banned once and picked once into a loss. Not saying he's weak - Olaf is definitely strong, easily top 3~4 jungle picks right now. But it's nothing like his pre-rework status. i don't have a statistics degree, but i am confident that a sample size of like 15 games in OGN is way too small to draw any kind of meaningful conclusions based on winrate, especially when you consider that he is only 1 of 10 champions on the map and you had the Jin Airs, Team Darks, and Team NBs of the world still getting matched up with giants like SKT, KT, and CJ. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On December 17 2013 14:33 chalice wrote: i don't have a statistics degree, but i am confident that a sample size of like 15 games in OGN is way too small to draw any kind of meaningful conclusions based on winrate, especially when you consider that he is only 1 of 10 champions on the map and you had the Jin Airs, Team Darks, and Team NBs of the world still getting matched up with giants like SKT, KT, and CJ. Did you even look at the link? There's 48 games so far in OGN. You can add on the 4 Battle of the Atlantic games (non-relegation; I don't have the stats for that) too if you want. While, yes, it's not a huge sample size it's basically all we have and it's not so small that it's statistically irrelevant. While Team Dark did troll one of their games and NB was definitely outclassed, the two Jin Air teams aren't terrible considering they were able to take games off of Storm and Frost | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On December 17 2013 14:29 Slusher wrote: I honestly don't know what Elise will take at this point, after the armor/mr nerfs I thought that was it, boy was I wrong lol Nerf movespeed, reduce execute dmg. Olaf in ogn is pretty much. Olaf + sivir combo = godlike. Olaf by himself = purty good. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
I'd like to see Riot lower the base damage on her skills/spiderlings across the board and buff her ratios to compensate. She jsut gets too much damage for free without building much AP. Either that or make her stun scale up to 1.5 seconds. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On December 17 2013 14:46 wei2coolman wrote: Nerf movespeed, reduce execute dmg. Olaf in ogn is pretty much. Olaf + sivir combo = godlike. Olaf by himself = purty good. Well, that is just an artifact of Riot pretending that Ghost is never on cooldown. Like, literally, pre-rework they constantly talked about how Ghost + Ult Olaf was really strong. As if Ult + Summoner on most champions is not really strong. So Olaf is now strong if he has Ghost (or Ghostlike effect), and less so without. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
On December 17 2013 14:55 cLutZ wrote: Well, that is just an artifact of Riot pretending that Ghost is never on cooldown. Like, literally, pre-rework they constantly talked about how Ghost + Ult Olaf was really strong. As if Ult + Summoner on most champions is not really strong. So Olaf is now strong if he has Ghost (or Ghostlike effect), and less so without. It has more-so to do with the fact that Olaf can dive to the backline near-guaranteed as is through his ult, and the Ghost-like effects make it like 99% certain, and if the enemy team focuses him down then he did his job cause then your own backline is shredding the enemy team up. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
They just gave Elise an enormous buff this patch that makes her clear a lot faster and increases her burst by a ton. That's a pretty stupid thing to do considering that she was extremely good even before that. I agree that she should have less base dmg, forcing people to actually build AP. Perhaps increasing the scaling of her Qs and lowering the base dmg, as well as reducing her spiderform / spiderling base dmg and increasing the ap ratio. Things like that. Oh and about diving to the backline, it's funny that Poppy can do that much more comfortably than Olaf but is considered trash. typo | ||
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