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On January 13 2014 20:24 Prog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 10:54 wei2coolman wrote:
I don't know where you get the notion that Sona isn't played anymore. She's still picked, just not as high as priority.
Annie was always strong, if anything her potential was finally being revealed by Tabe to the world. Same applies to Leona, was used to great effect by yolostar. The actual pool of champions for support haven't changed significantly, the pool is pretty much the same. The pick percentages might have changed a little bit. The only support that has actually seen play that wasn't seeing play pre3.14 is Karma. To illustrate: In the whole OGN bracket stage Sona was picked exactly 2 times. In both those games Leona, Annie and Thresh were already banned or picked. Sona had in the first game (vs Blitzcrank) 0-3-13 and did ok. In the other game she was 1-6-8 (vs Leona) and was picked on in lane to snowball the botlane for SGO. Sona pretty much lost the early game on her own because she could not handle Mata's Leona. Even MonteCristo stated that this is why you do not pick Sona any more. It is really a new development that teams focus their ban/pick to get the upper hand in the support battle. You could also see in the KTB vs SKT1K games that every single game at least 3 support champs were banned (usually Thresh, Leona, Annie). And out of all the Quarterfinal games Annie was banned or first picked in everyone but 3 (in which she was twice picked up in red side's first picks, so only in a single game she wasn't highest priority). You have to acknowledge that the only reason for the likes of Nami and Alistar supports was that the better one's are banned or picked.
Also that game the sona started coin and then went upgraded coin+boots vs a leona when she is losing.That is on the player not the champion.
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The point still stands that the strength gap between different supports is so high that teams pick and ban around that, which is something that was very rare in season 3. You had thresh bans, but I don't remember games with 3 or 4 support bans in season 3 at all. If there were any, they were rare, whereas nowadays it is common to ban/firstpick Thresh, Leona, Annie (and sometimes Lulu).
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the sona leona matchup is fairly even normally, buying health early is mandatory and depending on the marksmen (MM) machup you max heal. Other common supports like thresh and especially annie are a piece of cake for sona because she outranges both of them (hook has to be baited and dodget ofc). the reason montechristo gave there was not very accurate. sona is still one of the strongest laners. greed/passivity are the main reasons why sona lanes get dumpstered.
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Ashe god-tier in ARAM, wat. She needs peeling/protection, so she's RNG-dependant in he context of ARAMs.
On January 13 2014 19:23 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 19:12 Gahlo wrote:On January 13 2014 19:03 Scip wrote:
Isn't Zuna god though? He was god in worlds 0.o Bazinga
You. Out.
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On January 13 2014 21:54 clickrush wrote:
the sona leona matchup is fairly even normally, buying health early is mandatory and depending on the marksmen (MM) machup you max heal. Other common supports like thresh and especially annie are a piece of cake for sona because she outranges both of them (hook has to be baited and dodget ofc). the reason montechristo gave there was not very accurate. sona is still one of the strongest laners. greed/passivity are the main reasons why sona lanes get dumpstered.
I disagree, based on what I see on streams and on my own experience, which, I concede, is only in Plat I. I'd be glad to read how better supports than me think about the matchups, but I highly doubt any diamond support will agree that Annie and Thresh are "a piece of cake" for sona.
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On January 13 2014 21:54 clickrush wrote:
the sona leona matchup is fairly even normally, buying health early is mandatory and depending on the marksmen (MM) machup you max heal. Other common supports like thresh and especially annie are a piece of cake for sona because she outranges both of them (hook has to be baited and dodget ofc). the reason montechristo gave there was not very accurate. sona is still one of the strongest laners. greed/passivity are the main reasons why sona lanes get dumpstered.
I hate to be rude but have you ever laned as Sona vs an Annie, or a Thresh that wasn't retarded? Because I feel like your post is 100% theorycraft.
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On January 13 2014 15:30 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 15:29 cLutZ wrote:On January 13 2014 15:20 wei2coolman wrote:
Did janna get nerfed hard enough that she blows in ARAM now? More or less. She really was only good because of her awesome scaling on a straight line skillshot. And we were all thinking that 1000ap supports were going to be a thing, and that Janna would be op'd.
Who thought that? Besides Riot with their hamfisted preemptive nerfs/
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On January 13 2014 20:24 Prog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 10:54 wei2coolman wrote:
I don't know where you get the notion that Sona isn't played anymore. She's still picked, just not as high as priority.
Annie was always strong, if anything her potential was finally being revealed by Tabe to the world. Same applies to Leona, was used to great effect by yolostar. The actual pool of champions for support haven't changed significantly, the pool is pretty much the same. The pick percentages might have changed a little bit. The only support that has actually seen play that wasn't seeing play pre3.14 is Karma. To illustrate: In the whole OGN bracket stage Sona was picked exactly 2 times. In both those games Leona, Annie and Thresh were already banned or picked. Sona had in the first game (vs Blitzcrank) 0-3-13 and did ok. In the other game she was 1-6-8 (vs Leona) and was picked on in lane to snowball the botlane for SGO. Sona pretty much lost the early game on her own because she could not handle Mata's Leona. Even MonteCristo stated that this is why you do not pick Sona any more. It is really a new development that teams focus their ban/pick to get the upper hand in the support battle. You could also see in the KTB vs SKT1K games that every single game at least 3 support champs were banned (usually Thresh, Leona, Annie). And out of all the Quarterfinal games Annie was banned or first picked in everyone but 3 (in which she was twice picked up in red side's first picks, so only in a single game she wasn't highest priority). You have to acknowledge that the only reason for the likes of Nami and Alistar supports was that the better one's are banned or picked.
It may be semantics but none of that highlights the change in the actual # of champions that are being played as support... thresh, leona, and annie were all being used pre3.14 as well. All of which were banned in games pre3.14 as well.
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On January 13 2014 23:23 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 15:30 wei2coolman wrote:On January 13 2014 15:29 cLutZ wrote:On January 13 2014 15:20 wei2coolman wrote:
Did janna get nerfed hard enough that she blows in ARAM now? More or less. She really was only good because of her awesome scaling on a straight line skillshot. And we were all thinking that 1000ap supports were going to be a thing, and that Janna would be op'd. Who thought that? Besides Riot with their hamfisted preemptive nerfs/
He's hyperbolizing. People though mage supports would be able to fill a "budget mage" role.
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No way Leona vs Sona is an even matchups.
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On January 13 2014 23:34 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 23:23 cLutZ wrote:On January 13 2014 15:30 wei2coolman wrote:On January 13 2014 15:29 cLutZ wrote:On January 13 2014 15:20 wei2coolman wrote:
Did janna get nerfed hard enough that she blows in ARAM now? More or less. She really was only good because of her awesome scaling on a straight line skillshot. And we were all thinking that 1000ap supports were going to be a thing, and that Janna would be op'd. Who thought that? Besides Riot with their hamfisted preemptive nerfs/ He's hyperbolizing. People though mage supports would be able to fill a "budget mage" role.
I believe we all DID think that before they nerfed support gold. Shit was cray-cray at the start of preseason.
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Playing sona into annie is like a tightrope walk over the grandcanyon. Yeah it can be done, but there's no real margin for error.
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On January 13 2014 23:44 Osmoses wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 23:34 Gahlo wrote:On January 13 2014 23:23 cLutZ wrote:On January 13 2014 15:30 wei2coolman wrote:On January 13 2014 15:29 cLutZ wrote:On January 13 2014 15:20 wei2coolman wrote:
Did janna get nerfed hard enough that she blows in ARAM now? More or less. She really was only good because of her awesome scaling on a straight line skillshot. And we were all thinking that 1000ap supports were going to be a thing, and that Janna would be op'd. Who thought that? Besides Riot with their hamfisted preemptive nerfs/ He's hyperbolizing. People though mage supports would be able to fill a "budget mage" role. I believe we all DID think that before they nerfed support gold. Shit was cray-cray at the start of preseason.
I said "people" which, at least for me, means "pretty much everybody."
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I never agree with "people." They are always so optimistic.
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anyone know a good small mouse for fingertip/claw style that works on cloth pads?
i have a sensei, but idk...i sometimes get distracted by my mouse grip when laning.
i have upped the DPI, maybe that helps.
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Wait what are you supposed to start as sona in the leona lane? dshield?
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Baa?21247 Posts
dorans ring full ap and mpen yolo level 1 all in, you're better off in a 1 spell vs 1 spell situation as opposed to 2 spells vs 2 spells vs leona
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I hate playing Sona ever since the last nerf to Q powercord, you just take to much damage to even use it now.
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On January 13 2014 23:51 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 23:44 Osmoses wrote:On January 13 2014 23:34 Gahlo wrote:On January 13 2014 23:23 cLutZ wrote:On January 13 2014 15:30 wei2coolman wrote:On January 13 2014 15:29 cLutZ wrote:On January 13 2014 15:20 wei2coolman wrote:
Did janna get nerfed hard enough that she blows in ARAM now? More or less. She really was only good because of her awesome scaling on a straight line skillshot. And we were all thinking that 1000ap supports were going to be a thing, and that Janna would be op'd. Who thought that? Besides Riot with their hamfisted preemptive nerfs/ He's hyperbolizing. People though mage supports would be able to fill a "budget mage" role. I believe we all DID think that before they nerfed support gold. Shit was cray-cray at the start of preseason. I said "people" which, at least for me, means "pretty much everybody."
Also, if you recall the original Janna change had really idiotic values on her shield and shit where if she did get 500+ AP her shield would be giving like 150 AD and her passive would give like 15% movespeed or something dumb. That got changed before the patch hit.
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Baa?21247 Posts
which is why talking about pbe changes is stupid
pls make new thread for that toxicity
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EPT
