EPT[Patch 3.15] Yasuo General Discussion - Page 171
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On January 07 2014 06:46 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: ketara once again shows off theorycraft that falls apart when any sort of logic is applied to it dfg on cass lol ok zero mana items have fun going through the entire first 50 minutes of the game without any mana even if you get mana items it'd mean you have to sell it to get what you have now so your build is delayed considerably in comparison jinx can actually get those items without it being totally unviable in a real game you gave jinx a purely defensive item (GA) compared to zero defense on cass who is an unmobile hero to begin with, so the wind blows too hard and you die not to mention all of jinx's aoe that can execute etc etc etc sir theres a shikyo thread for a reason Roffles is that you? | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21245 Posts
ye On January 07 2014 06:48 Ketara wrote: Well I gave him what he asked for. I didn't say whether or not it was realistic. The entire argument isn't realistic. why post something that you -know- is wrong then? that's willful ignorance which is like the most toxic thing ever On January 07 2014 06:49 krndandaman wrote: I really want to know what I'm doing wrong though. Shikyo just for venting but I honestly think there is something wrong with my play that I haven't seen. Idk if there is another thread to receive replay help though. I'd be willing to do it for lower ELO people a bit defunct but im sure there are people willing to review replays http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396065 | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
The only thing marksmen are consistently better at than other types is safe laneing and early turret sieging. Lategame sieges are not a marksmen speciality by default. There are tons of them who suck at sieging turrets and are banned/picked consistently at pro level such as vayne/sivir. Lategame sieges are also a thing you can choose to do. A smart variation of splitpushing, invading and diving can just be as strong to push an advantage. Splitpushing in particular is way safer if you don't have marksmen because they are weaker the fewer the participants in a skirmish/combat situation. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On January 07 2014 06:52 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: ye why post something that you -know- is wrong then? that's willful ignorance which is like the most toxic thing ever a bit defunct but im sure there are people willing to review replays http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396065 It's not wrong, it's just stupid. The entire argument of what does the most damage is stupid. Cassiopeia does a lot of damage. So do ADCs. They're comparable. Who does the most is often going to depend on the exact situation. It's very similar to discussing arpen vs ad runes or "what is a tank" Do you need to have an ADC in a composition? No, you don't. There are high level players here who have won ranked games with compositions that didn't have an ADC in them. Is there a reason why people put ADCs in compositions? Yes. It's been talked about at length. If you want to discuss what a no ADC comp would look like, what the advantage would be and when you would use it, there's a thread for that. You could also come test it out tomorrow. I mean, stop being dumb everybody. PS: Cheep, you calling me toxic is really adorable. Stop trolling my posts please. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Kenpark
Germany2350 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21245 Posts
On January 07 2014 07:07 Kenpark wrote: Wouldnt champs like Anivia or Rammus totaly wreck teams without any ranged sustained dps ? a lot of champs fit that bill. basically anyone who relies on melee engages or can kite indefinitely while doing a million damage. janna, ashe, rumble, and blue ezreal among many many others anyone who pokes would destroy too, nidalee ziggs etc hell even people like brand or malzahar would become better. the list goes on and on. the only times you see people run 5 melee comps are when one of the melees is a mage that happens to be melee and the bruiser bot lane happens to have a good amount of reposition like some combination of lee sin jarvan panth for example (IG ran that and cheesed out WE who was the "better" team at the time to take one example among a few) On January 07 2014 07:01 Ketara wrote: It's not wrong, it's just stupid. The entire argument of what does the most damage is stupid. Cassiopeia does a lot of damage. So do ADCs. They're comparable. Who does the most is often going to depend on the exact situation. It's very similar to discussing arpen vs ad runes or "what is a tank" so you think it's a stupid conversation and you decide the best way to go is to contribute even MORE stupid shit to an already stupid conversation, cause that's totally the way to make the conversation less stupid PS: Cheep, you calling me toxic is really adorable. ya i'm pretty adorable. Stop trolling my posts please. you don't know what that word means I mean, stop being dumb everybody. lol | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
typically you'll go triple pen over void since Liandry has health and interacts with Rylai, but ofc that also depends something like Sorcs/Rylai/Abyssal/Hourglass/Dcap/Liandry would be a pretty middle of the road build, but void and wota are possible alternatives depending. please don't confuse this with me saying her dps won't compare to adc, I just don't like the stacked deck in the build comparison, the fact of the matter is even if her dps is >= adc, she is every bit as fragle as one even with the safer builds I have listed. | ||
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Amethyst21
Canada7032 Posts
On January 07 2014 06:54 clickrush wrote: again, the whole "you don't get enough lategame dps without adc" is completely wrong. Marksmen don't consistently deal the highest damage in the game. Not in soloq, not in pro level games. They only sometimes do. All the talk about sustained physical damage is purely based on theory craft. The only thing marksmen are consistently better at than other types is safe laneing and early turret sieging. Lategame sieges are not a marksmen speciality by default. There are tons of them who suck at sieging turrets and are banned/picked consistently at pro level such as vayne/sivir. Lategame sieges are also a thing you can choose to do. A smart variation of splitpushing, invading and diving can just be as strong to push an advantage. Splitpushing in particular is way safer if you don't have marksmen because they are weaker the fewer the participants in a skirmish/combat situation. This would be a great argument if laning and seiging weren't...you know key concepts at anything resembling top level play. I don't know what this arguement is supposed to prove? | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21245 Posts
On January 07 2014 07:14 Slusher wrote: depends on how hard you are snowballing but wota is still viable on cass, and Rylai is near 100% purchase. typically you'll go triple pen over void since Liandry has health and interacts with Rylai, but ofc that also depends something like Sorcs/Rylai/Abyssal/Hourglass/Dcap/Liandry would be a pretty middle of the road build, but void and wota are possible alternatives depending. please don't confuse this with me saying her dps won't compare to adc, I just don't like the stacked deck in the build comparison, the fact of the matter is even if her dps is >= adc, she is every bit as fragle as one even with the safer builds I have listed. it doesn't always happen, but cass also does run out of mana a bit more often than a lot of the other popular heroes, and a lot of cass mains have shown they like tear a lot. tear was always the first item in that f33r3d k0r34n cass vid that was posted a couple months ago for example. On January 07 2014 07:16 Amethyst21 wrote: I don't know what this arguement is supposed to prove? some people really like to post and hear the sound of their own voice + Show Spoiler + in their head when they read back the shit they've vomited out onto the forums to themselves On January 07 2014 07:22 Ketara wrote: Okay, I'm gonna do it with Sorc Rylai Abyssal Zhonya Deathcap Void, since Liandry math is 2hard. So basically the build I had but with Rylai instead of DFG. 712.53 AP Still 1578 DPS with Q and E only. Seraphs will give her 124 AP so changing Rylai, Abyssal, Zhonya or Void Staff for Seraph will make that number go up (Void since we aren't factoring pen into this) do you even stop to think about what you're saying LOL yes lets conveniently ignore anywhere from 25 to 100 mr cause who cares about being right? im just writing numbers! abyssal is like literally the only thing on that list tha tmakes sense since zhonya is non negotiable core and rylai also has a huge chunk of hp | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
So basically the build I had but with Rylai instead of DFG. 712.53 AP Still 1578 DPS with Q and E only. Seraphs will give her 124 AP so changing Rylai, Abyssal, Zhonya or Void Staff for Seraph will make that number go up (Void since we aren't factoring pen into this) | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On January 07 2014 07:16 Amethyst21 wrote: This would be a great argument if laning and seiging weren't...you know key concepts at anything resembling top level play. I don't know what this arguement is supposed to prove? if sieging where a key concept then every composition at pro level play had to be good at sieging which is not the case. And laneing per se is a key concept, yes but mm+supp are not automatically the strongest lanes but the safest. And to answer your question: Just wanted to try to make a point about marksmen being overrated as a must have thing. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Amethyst21
Canada7032 Posts
On January 07 2014 07:26 clickrush wrote: if sieging where a key concept then every composition at pro level play had to be good at sieging which is not the case. And laneing per se is a key concept, yes but mm+supp are not automatically the strongest lanes but the safest. And to answer your question: Just wanted to try to make a point about marksmen being overrated as a must have thing. Seiging IS important. That's why carries like Twitch aren't picked, because they suck horribly at seiging. Thats why Caitlyn will always be at least a niche ad carry. And who the heck thinks AD Carries are overrated? They are arguably at their weakest point since I started playing (in season 2) and there were about 8,000 'AD Carries are underpowered' threads on Reddit recently. Nobody thinks that AD Carries are great at the moment. Heck at the end of season 3 Curse Academy used an ADC less comp to pretty good success, and that is without the new masteries that made brusiers and tanks even more effective. On January 07 2014 07:33 cLutZ wrote: I think people are confusing viable and optimal again. Indeed. Anything can work (in solo queue and occasionally at top level play) but because its viable it doesn't mean its optimal (thanks cLutZ for expressing what was taking me several paragraphs to say!) | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On January 07 2014 07:39 turdburgler wrote: oh good, everyone is getting mad again. what are you talking about we all agree with eachother. we just juggle around with emphasis/reliativization. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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