EPThaving 1 less squishy and 1 more bruiser makes it even harder for them and not just because of 1 more bruiser, you also have nobody to protect any more, assassins and aps usually have their own tools to get their damage out before they die
[Patch 3.15] Yasuo General Discussion - Page 169
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
having 1 less squishy and 1 more bruiser makes it even harder for them and not just because of 1 more bruiser, you also have nobody to protect any more, assassins and aps usually have their own tools to get their damage out before they die | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Sure if you've got a teamfight comp and want to catch people in the open and manfight there and then, they may not be the best champions (especially if the other team has strong burst or counterinitiation to take them down fast). But I remember some promotion games a few weeks ago where the team massively ahead couldn't break into the enemy base because they had Sivir and 4 melees, making them unable to slowly kill the tower while not being ahead enough to decisively win a fight under it. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On January 07 2014 02:25 Slayer91 wrote: i've played ADC-less comps with favourable results. adcs often do horrible dps in real fights just because of how many threats there are too them nowadays having 1 less squishy and 1 more bruiser makes it even harder for them and not just because of 1 more bruiser, you also have nobody to protect any more, assassins and aps usually have their own tools to get their damage out before they die The only reason we see ad is cause ad/supp is best duo and taking towers without an ad can be hard. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On January 07 2014 02:27 nafta wrote: The only reason we see ad is cause ad/supp is best duo and taking towers without an ad can be hard. Their early-mid turret sieging power is unmached. A bruiser/mage/assassin has a much harder or lets rather say unsafe time to bring down turrets early on than an adc. But(!) the main reasons why the eu-style comp will prevail are different. As Slayers said adc less comps in 5's are fairly strong and have their advantages. Soloq however will only slowly adapt because making big sudden changes to the 'meta' comp is pretty stupid and risky, even if your adc player would be a better trained bruiser/assassin/mage he will and should still rather pick adc just because of purely psychological reasons and because people know how to play (more or less) with the comp. The reason for pro play not switching up their gears very fast is even more obvious. They have a guy who trains mm solely and his support is trained and used to that too. mm + support being the best duo lane I can't agree with though. I would say it is the safest duo lane you can have while providing early turret sieging power. There are a ton of lane which are stronger overall but riskier or don't have as much turret sieging power. Like imagine what annie+panth/zed can do in a duo lane for example etc. Non mm duo lanes often have to share some CS (otherwise you will miss some or get poked) which is basicly awkward and sometimes even hard to do correctly. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On January 06 2014 23:48 Osmoses wrote: I like playing Gangplank against nasus. W removes the wither and the aa q aa is a very good way to deter him from lasthitting. I'd love for people to pick GP vs me as Nasus, first back with giants belt + pots and the GP gonna become real useless On January 06 2014 18:20 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Mystic Shot can't even crit why would you build Infinity Edge over Thirster ever? people seem to forget Ezreal can right click and not just shoot q and then run in circles for 2 seconds | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On January 07 2014 02:48 clickrush wrote: Their early-mid turret sieging power is unmached. A bruiser/mage/assassin has a much harder or lets rather say unsafe time to bring down turrets early on than an adc. But(!) the main reasons why the eu-style comp will prevail are different. As Slayers said adc less comps in 5's are fairly strong and have their advantages. Soloq however will only slowly adapt because making big sudden changes to the 'meta' comp is pretty stupid and risky, even if your adc player would be a better trained bruiser/assassin/mage he will and should still rather pick adc just because of purely psychological reasons and because people know how to play (more or less) with the comp. The reason for pro play not switching up their gears very fast is even more obvious. They have a guy who trains mm solely and his support is trained and used to that too. mm + support being the best duo lane I can't agree with though. I would say it is the safest duo lane you can have while providing early turret sieging power. There are a ton of lane which are stronger overall but riskier or don't have as much turret sieging power. Like imagine what annie+panth/zed can do in a duo lane for example etc. Non mm duo lanes often have to share some CS (otherwise you will miss some or get poked) which is basicly awkward and sometimes even hard to do correctly. I would be pretty happy if I had to play vs annie/zed(pant) instead of annie/jinx.If people start trying to play bruiser/supp or something like that the only thing that would change is fotm ad.Ad/supp is superior to any other duo unless they play bad. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On January 07 2014 02:48 wei2coolman wrote: The most important part is needing some form of ranged damage. Otherwise 5 melee comp would get aoe'd to hell, and would be hard for them to get towers. with ranged supports having increased gold you can run say "support" annie bot and a typical ranged ap mid and not have too many issues tower sieging is definitely the biggest worry most non ad/supp combos are pretty bad bot but there are some decent ones I think jarvan seems the best ive played zed is terrible and pant is overrated bot so sure | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
happy birthday ya filthy animal | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
the current way of botlane is not flat out wrong or weaker than any other but I highly doubt if we 100% need so called ad carries by default other than convenience. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
On January 07 2014 03:10 clickrush wrote: There are some mages who can siege fairly decent as well. Imagine a zyra + sona lane. you have strong poke/harass, strong pushing power through plants and two long ranged autoattacks and hell of an all-in as well. and with zyra you have a potential carry who scales very well (one of the higher overall scalings), who can deal a ton of damage without needing protection and even an additional initiator. the current way of botlane is not flat out wrong or weaker than any other but I highly doubt if we 100% need so called ad carries by default other than convenience. The thing is I don't really see a non AD Carry teamcomp ever doing signifcant dmg to a inhib tower vs something like gragas or Ziggs (especially with fucking regenerating towers) unless you're soo far behind (15k+) that you just dive that shit. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
seen it maybe another time actually On January 07 2014 03:17 AsnSensation wrote: The thing is I don't really see a non AD Carry teamcomp ever doing signifcant dmg to a inhib tower vs something like gragas or Ziggs (especially with fucking regenerating towers) unless you're soo far behind (15k+) that you just dive that shit. adc's are also deadweights in tower dives as well though, often 2-3 ppl jump ahead 1 stays to defend adc and adc doesn't want to dive and generally doesn't do much at all | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On January 07 2014 03:18 Slayer91 wrote: o yeah had some rager ended up going rengar bot with annie and they stomped LOL seen it maybe another time actually adc's are also deadweights in tower dives as well though, often 2-3 ppl jump ahead 1 stays to defend adc and adc doesn't want to dive and generally doesn't do much at all But against dives they are often very strong. Especially at inhib turrets because even if you chase them away from the inhib they can get cover from nexus turrets and safely deal damage from there. Another lategame situation where mms are really strong is if you have something like a tristana and you play from behind, lose 1-2 inhibs. This champ just destroys superminion waves like no tomorrow and scales extremely well. But there again. The marksmen who are actually real carries by default (get items and carry) are only a few. Trist and kog are in there, ppl say vayne is in there but I'am not very convinced by her lategame per se. In any other damaging role like assassins/fighters/mages youll find even more examples of default lategame carry power. Mages like ryze, vlad, cassio flat out destroy most adc damage and survivability and on top of that they punch a pack of utility as well. That doesn't mean you can go into soloq and pick X champ instead of a MM and succeed but it means in theory or in arranged play you actually don't need them to carry a team. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
Now, whether you need to have that be an AD ranged champion is not 100%, if you have a lot of AD elsewhere it might not be a terrible idea to put an AP champ botlane so you aren't like Renekton/Zed/Vi+ADC, but who knows if that is even a problem. | ||
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
Ranged Attack Damage Dudes That Football Wizards Play With When They Go Bot? RADDTFWPWWTGB | ||
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