EPTEG roster speculation (EG players going to NA?) - Page 3
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JonGalt
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
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UmberBane
Germany5450 Posts
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schmutttt
Australia3856 Posts
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On November 30 2013 19:08 schmutttt wrote: Am I the only person who thinks it is really wrong that EG can just purchase the LCS promos spot off guitar? Don't blame guitar in this, all of us would have taken the money (Though I do think he has to take some blame for Velocitys terrible performance last split and obvious infighting, you're the manager, sort that shit out or don't manage them). Nope I said this is very wrong since the beginning of LCS. Basically any team qualifying for LCS is forced to give their spot to a manger, who can then sell it at will to anyone offering enough money. The players of Velocity who were the ones that actually earned that spot get none of the money. It is fundamentally unjust. And there could be much worse cases with players that are actually good that lose their spot because someone buys it. I am actually wondering if some of the crazy roster changes we see in EU are the consequence of the Lemondogs spot having been bought. You still have to wonder what Ocelote is up to these days... | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On November 30 2013 21:45 RouaF wrote: I will have a good laugh when they won't qualify into the lcs. They basically took the 3 worse players on the team and they expect to do well ? Their only chance is to have the 2 filler na players carry them. That sounds like hating. There is no way that Innox and Pobelter are better than the 3 EG guys, especially with their much bigger experience. They were able to do well in EU LCS, so why should they not be able to compete in NA LCS? The problem for them will be the first hurdle, which is Quantic. Might actually be a 50/50 thing. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On December 01 2013 00:07 Redox wrote: Nope I said this is very wrong since the beginning of LCS. Basically any team qualifying for LCS is forced to give their spot to a manger, who can then sell it at will to anyone offering enough money. The players of Velocity who were the ones that actually earned that spot get none of the money. It is fundamentally unjust. And there could be much worse cases with players that are actually good that lose their spot because someone buys it. I am actually wondering if some of the crazy roster changes we see in EU are the consequence of the Lemondogs spot having been bought. You still have to wonder what Ocelote is up to these days... It's pretty fucked up honestly. Guess Riot just doesn't give a shit? | ||
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Lylat
France8575 Posts
On November 30 2013 21:45 RouaF wrote: I will have a good laugh when they won't qualify into the lcs. They basically took the 3 worse players on the team and they expect to do well ? Their only chance is to have the 2 filler na players carry them. Hmm I agree that Snoopeh is really bad but the EG botlane is pretty solid imo. In EG YP was always in 3th position concerning farm, maybe if he doesn't get deprived of farm by a Froggen or a Wickd he could carry games. | ||
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Tula
Austria1544 Posts
On December 01 2013 00:43 Numy wrote: It's pretty fucked up honestly. Guess Riot just doesn't give a shit? It's pretty normal honestly and a necessary part in the transition from Amateur stuff to a real sport. Someone has to "hold" the license/team name. Obviously that someone could be a player, but it is far more common to have that someone be a club/organization etc. No one minds when Curse more or less throws out their entire roster in the pre-season, so why should we mind if a struggling team decides to sell to a bigger organization? Similar stuff has happened in almost every sport. The players in Velocity got the money from Summer split (and whatever guitar paid them on top), frankly it was 100% certain that they would have to change quite a bit to have a chance in the promotion tournament. Playing under a new organization with a new roster isn't any different than if they had thrown out 3 players and gotten 3 new people for those slots. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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ExoFun
Netherlands2041 Posts
On December 01 2013 01:10 Numy wrote: The curse/velocity situation I'm not too concerned about, it's more the LD ones. A team that finished top 3 and go to worlds yet still get their slot potentially bought with their team getting pillaged by everyone. Don't really see how that kind of thing is good for the game. When it doesnt work anymore it doesn't .. then its better te rebuild. And most of it did it with NiP. Change is good for scene to grow. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On December 01 2013 00:50 Tula wrote: It's pretty normal honestly and a necessary part in the transition from Amateur stuff to a real sport. Someone has to "hold" the license/team name. Obviously that someone could be a player, but it is far more common to have that someone be a club/organization etc. It is not exactly the same as in pro sports like football etc though. For it to be the same in football there would have to be 11 random guys forming a team, qualifying for the Premier League and then having to give that spot to a football club. I really think the players should hold the spot, given that they can aquire it without having an organisation prior. And even if they have one, these orgs often dont do much more than covering some travel costs or whatever in the amateur scene. It can not be likened to football clubs or whatever that invest hugely into their teams and actually share a big part of the responsibility for the success in the competition. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On December 01 2013 01:27 ExoFun wrote: When it doesnt work anymore it doesn't .. then its better te rebuild. And most of it did it with NiP. Change is good for scene to grow. You could also rebuild and change stuff if the players held the spot. If the majority of players decide the team has to be changed then it would happen. Problem is with the rules how they are teams could even be changed if they do work, against the wishes of the players. It is simply a question of money. Yeah it is less likely to happen when the team is succesful, but theoretically still possible. And one last thing before I stop this off-topic stuff. Historically Esports managers have often proven to be incompetent or assholes or both. I would not trust them one bit if I was a player. | ||
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ketchup
14521 Posts
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
On December 01 2013 01:48 ketchup wrote: If the Velocity players wanted to stay together, couldn't they contest what went down? Similar to the CW issue from the EU scene where the 5 players held on to their spot rather than Copenhagen wolves keeping it CW sold it to NiP and no the organisations owns the spot, and since VES is considered amateur team at the moment and not LCS team I'm not sure if the rule of at least 3 players have to remain on the roster whether as players or sub, applies to them like it did for CW/NIP (they kept one of thetess, svenskeren, godbro as subs afaik not sure which one.) | ||
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ExoFun
Netherlands2041 Posts
On December 01 2013 01:54 AsnSensation wrote: CW sold it to NiP and no the organisations owns the spot, and since VES is considered amateur team at the moment and not LCS team I'm not sure if the rule of at least 3 players have to remain on the roster whether as players or sub, applies to them like it did for CW/NIP (they kept one of thetess, svenskeren, godbro as subs afaik not sure which one.) CW lost their "spot" to their players because there were broken promises. And the players transferred to NiP because better future prospect because NiP is a much bigger name than CW. And because the "CW" consisted as a team bond instead of organisation they needed to keep the 3 people on the roster. In Velocity case it's different. The organisation controls the spot and they can do everything with it without the teammembers have anyhting to see say within it. And the current LD deal is that the players didnt had the same vision about praccing and i think there was a an unworkable situation (tabzz pretty complained there was a clash at WC/ or after). And the mithy/nuke/zorozero wanted a org with the same vision and a bigger name and that what they found in NiP Freeze/hyrqbot. And with the EG deal.. you saw it coming from a mile away. So many "superteam" calls and there was only one team that could have done that. + Ocelote with his new team is luckey or has invested lots of money to get the LD spot. But we will find out soon enough. | ||
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Tula
Austria1544 Posts
On December 01 2013 01:28 Redox wrote: It is not exactly the same as in pro sports like football etc though. For it to be the same in football there would have to be 11 random guys forming a team, qualifying for the Premier League and then having to give that spot to a football club. I really think the players should hold the spot, given that they can aquire it without having an organisation prior. And even if they have one, these orgs often dont do much more than covering some travel costs or whatever in the amateur scene. It can not be likened to football clubs or whatever that invest hugely into their teams and actually share a big part of the responsibility for the success in the competition. No it isn't the same yet, but it is a step in a more buisness-like direction. The players might be able to aquire the spot (frankly the way the qualifiers are looking currently I have my doubts if we will ever see a true ranked 5 ladder team again) but they do not have the organization or knowledge to actually run a proper team for an entire season. Remember back to the last year, how many teams/organizations had problems with teamhouses, broken promises, outstanding debts etc. I'm not going to throw stones here, but it was pretty clear that there was a big difference in how the teams were ran. Frankly even the "big" teams aren't close enough to a real sports team yet, but we are moving in that direction. It's pretty much accepted that a team should have at least 1 coach and 1 analyst working in the background (some Korean team said they actually have 5 people paid fulltime either as coaches or analysts), who is going to pay for that if the "license" so to speak belongs to the players? Riot wants LCS to become a proper league, for that to work you basically need proper teams, or we will never get anywhere. On a completely unrelated note, I'm still laughing about people calling YP, snoopeh and Krepo bad, frankly none of us here has any idea how they would stack up individually. They came 4th in Europe after loosing to Fnatic and Gambit. Considering where those two ended up at the Championship I don't think they need to be ashamed of that. Snoopeh slumped hard (or at least didn't play up to his S2 level) in S3, but esp. in the month leading up to the playoffs he did a very good job. | ||
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
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