On November 27 2013 22:49 Alaric wrote: Frankly, it feels more like "if you try ganking and don't get a kill every single time you're very behind" more than a farm to the afk farming. Well, technically that's an indirect buff, but unless I'm Amumu or something and I want to farm till 6 I'm not too sold on it in terms of gold and long term xp.
except if your gank puts the laner further ahead than you get behind...?
its like you guys are just discovering the whole fundementals of jungling which theres the choice between taking the risk for a gank or taking the safe choice with the farm. It's just been exaggerated with the higher farm reward.
Bad wording I guess. I understand that it gives more weight to the decision compared to s3 which was probably too "gank-heavy" (although I tend to prefer ganks to farming, since it introduces more variance), but as it is currently I feel like farming is way, way too ahead of ganking to make the risk worth it.
Now there's stuff like the assists streaks and jungle bonus exp that would need to be addressed too (since knowing how much free gold you're going to get in the midgame teamfights makes you not mind much about being behind in lanes, it makes the primary concern exp and then not only afk farming is superior, counterjungling isn't that interesting because they'll catch up fast), and once that's done we can look more closely at how the early-midgame jungle works out.
On November 27 2013 23:08 Shikyo wrote: Jungler 101: If you never gank a toplane where your team's player has 10+ minions at his turret and is trying to lasthit, you're already better than 80% of them at gold and higher.
God i hate it when they do that. More often then not i just ignore the gank and lasthit. And ofc then the jungler gets pissed off that I didnt lose 200+ gold just to burn some guy's flash.
Or counterjungling is stronger, because you get more farm and they get less? Only XP can catch up, and that's assuming you don't catch them in their jungle when they are behind.
"), but as it is currently I feel like farming is way, way too ahead of ganking to make the risk worth it" ganking if it gets kills is always worth it (nearly always)
As I mentioned, I don't feel like the gold gap is significant because assist streaks in the midgame tend to compress it hard, making exp the primary concern. Sure, you're behind in gold if you get counterjungled, but not that much. You'll also catch up as soon as you're a level behind unless efforts are made to keep you pinned down until the disadvantage can translate into something more tangible (teamfights start, drake attempt where your Smite is weaker, etc.), and I'm not sure if that's an acceptable trade-off for how much a jungler is going to devote to that end. Maybe I'm overestimating the counterjungling dude's sacrifices.
As for "it's always wotrh it if it gets the kill" I agree, what I was saying was "you can't afford many botches/people not dying before you get really behind", eg. "you'll have to get a kill close to every time", hence pressure and stuff.
Well, if I'm Fiora vs Pantheon solo top, the lane goes from almost certain loss to practically guaranteed landslide victory if they make the pantheon lose like 300 hp and a few minions. So even without a kill it's worth it practically every single time. It's such an enormous advantage.
On November 27 2013 23:40 Shikyo wrote: Well, if I'm Fiora vs Pantheon solo top, the lane goes from almost certain loss to practically guaranteed landslide victory if they make the pantheon lose like 300 hp and a few minions. So even without a kill it's worth it practically every single time. It's such an enormous advantage.
I'm sure we can deduce the viability of jungling styles by their effect on the laning phase of the immensely popular Fiora vs Panth matchup.
so the relic shield changes are live 60 sec cd. etc but the tooltips are not changed.
I'm not sure if it is still worth with the increased cd but after testing you can still use it on ranged characters, they only disabled the execute mechanic so you need to last hit normally in able to pass the gold.
On November 27 2013 23:40 Shikyo wrote: Well, if I'm Fiora vs Pantheon solo top, the lane goes from almost certain loss to practically guaranteed landslide victory if they make the pantheon lose like 300 hp and a few minions. So even without a kill it's worth it practically every single time. It's such an enormous advantage.
It's on you to communicate that to the jungler and now he knows its worth to spend time top. ezpz.
EPT
