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On November 25 2013 13:30 Dusty wrote:
I agree with you completely clutz, which is why I like it. Before if you were really far ahead and you made a mistake and lost a fight or whatever it didn't matter, now if you get ahead and mess up, you can actually lose. "Random mistakes" as you call them weren't really random, honestly, they were just dumb mistakes, and you now have to think about staying ahead instead of like before, where you can get ahead, do dumb stuff, and stay ahead.
The problem is a lack of importance of accumulations of mistakes in pro games.
Like the old system was: First Blood results in First Tower Results in First Dragon = Game must be thrown, hard, to lose.
New system is: Only thing that matters is lategame death timers.
I am not saying that deaths and kills is all that matters, but if you are winning 20-10, assuming relatively equal towers/dragons getting aced should not result in losing the game. On the other hand, being up 2-0 and a tower shouldn't put the other team on the back foot completely. I would accept the first scenario more, if LOL had more interesting powercurves, but we all know that it has fairly flat curves, so such an argument is moot.
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On November 25 2013 13:08 Dusty wrote:
the more I play this patch the more I like it, it fixes so many issues at higher levels of play (mainly snowballing related), just need to iron out a few issues (relic/targon, obviously... and the fact that the defense tree sucks ass)
the fact that comebacks are so much more possible is really cool, I really like what they did with inhibitors.
Honestly I feel that the comebacks being "easier" are because more gold is flowing into the map.
For example, I played a game as Ezreal and by the 23 minute mark we were 10 - 23, down 7 turrets and mid inhib. But because I went relic shield into TF, that extra gold let my Nami support get more gold, which they converted into wards and some AP items (specifically Athene's), which led to more mana and more CDR for bubbles, which we converted into kills. I got most of said kills and even though we eventually lost 24 - 43, basically every team fight we went 2 for 3 or 3 for 3 or even won a couple (including one where they had baron buff,) as the Nami was able to convert that gold into kills (specifically, kills into me) so I could start carrying, and by the end of the game I was the 2nd richest person on the map, behind the opponent's mid lane who went 15 - 3 - 10.
Also, Riven's still OP as hell. If she's not banned pick her, play smart, farm and just dumpster people with blade + spell weaving masteries.
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On November 25 2013 13:51 Celial wrote:
So, Relic Shield is supposedly getting hotfixed today (Monday). Was a fun time as long as it lasted, played a lot of Wukong and Singed support. Especially Singed was great. Just kept pushing all day long, the insane regen from Relic Shield topped me off all the time. After level 6 just tower dive all day erry day. Tear first best build, you never get into lengthy fights anyways and can stack like mad. I really hope he can stay viable, Singed is totally some next level Alistar shit. Protip: Play Jinxed/Singed. Flip into Chompers for 20-0 laning phase.
Wukong was kinda meh at first, haven't played him in over a year. After a few games I got him figured out though, really fun to lane with him. You can really terrorize the enemy from the brush, EQW all day erry day. Again, insane sustain from the Relic Shield. Needs some damage though. I experimented with Brutalizer -> boots 1 -> vamp scepter -> tank boots -> Hydra/Cleaver -> wardens mail -> negatron -> Cleaver/Hydra. Damage is awesome, but your other lanes better not lost too hard because it feels kinda squishy. Getting tank after Brutalizer feels meh as well, sure you are more tanky but you do literally zero damage. I love Wukong in teamfights, but haven't figured out how to play him from support yet.
I really hope the bruiser support viability stays despite the Relic shield nerfs, it's just so much fun :D
I played Wu as the 'carry' bot with a Malph supp. ADCs just can't take that EQW.
On the other hand I've played against a few Singeds and they all seemed.. Useless in lane. Sure they get annoying as shit late but they didn't really seem to do much for their ADC. Any hard CC (which most Supps have) just wrecked him. Couldn't initiate, could only try and peel. Maybe they were all terrible.
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Playing Fiora bot with double relic with a bruisertype support(Alistar) feels really strong. She shits on any ADC 1v1 and scales well with items. Just requires an engagement-based support like Alistar or Blitzcrank or perhaps Thresh, and low ping for Riposte.
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Maybe it's because I'm in a low league, but it's so weird to see supports with the third most money on the team
+ I hope they increase the ward limit to five sight and 2 vision
Edit: Yay! Halfway to one thousand posts.
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Despite many people's predictions, Eve's popularity and win rate have remained basically the same so far. I wonder if it'll start to pick up once things have settled down a bit and relic's is nerfed.
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On November 25 2013 16:08 Shikyo wrote:
Playing Fiora bot with double relic with a bruisertype support(Alistar) feels really strong. She shits on any ADC 1v1 and scales well with items. Just requires an engagement-based support like Alistar or Blitzcrank or perhaps Thresh, and low ping for Riposte.
why not leona or taric
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On November 25 2013 17:00 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 16:08 Shikyo wrote:
Playing Fiora bot with double relic with a bruisertype support(Alistar) feels really strong. She shits on any ADC 1v1 and scales well with items. Just requires an engagement-based support like Alistar or Blitzcrank or perhaps Thresh, and low ping for Riposte. why not leona or taric
Just because I didn't want to list them all, both work too. Annie should work as well. Just not Zyra or whatever
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On November 25 2013 16:15 GolemMadness wrote:
Despite many people's predictions, Eve's popularity and win rate have remained basically the same so far. I wonder if it'll start to pick up once things have settled down a bit and relic's is nerfed.
Yeah, the only champion that has had a noticeably large change has been Taric and some of that seems to have been random chance.
I'm not sure right now how to deal with stealth ganks right now. It used to be that you could put down a few extra pink wards, and spend a fortune to ensure that your bot lane was safe. You might even get lucky if you bought a pink ward and see a gank coming in any lane. Now I'm not sure what you can do. Pink wards just get cleared with no difficulty by the laners so unless you're ahead already you can't protect your wards.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On November 25 2013 16:15 GolemMadness wrote:
Despite many people's predictions, Eve's popularity and win rate have remained basically the same so far. I wonder if it'll start to pick up once things have settled down a bit and relic's is nerfed.
wtf, Evelynn is broken as FUCK
there is enough gold in the jungle to build AP and you dont have to worry about anyone buying pinks because they suck
and then you can get hyperbuffed spectral wrath for massive sustain, shit's OP
I am staggered that her winrates haven't spiked. My first thought would be that that's because more people who never played her before try her out, but if her popularity hasn't spiked that's not the case. Not sure why that is o.o
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On November 25 2013 16:15 GolemMadness wrote:
Despite many people's predictions, Eve's popularity and win rate have remained basically the same so far. I wonder if it'll start to pick up once things have settled down a bit and relic's is nerfed.
Lolking claims Eves popularity has doubled since the patch came. From 3.xx% to over 7% of games played. Her winrate seems to be about the same, but that does not surprise me, so many new players trying her out in my games. :#
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Well, Trinity Force definitely seems like the way to go for Fiora. Maybe I need to ditch BotRK completely.
half my posts are something random about fiora
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On November 25 2013 17:04 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 16:15 GolemMadness wrote:
Despite many people's predictions, Eve's popularity and win rate have remained basically the same so far. I wonder if it'll start to pick up once things have settled down a bit and relic's is nerfed. wtf, Evelynn is broken as FUCK there is enough gold in the jungle to build AP and you dont have to worry about anyone buying pinks because they suck and then you can get hyperbuffed spectral wrath for massive sustain, shit's OP I am staggered that her winrates haven't spiked. My first thought would be that that's because more people who never played her before try her out, but if her popularity hasn't spiked that's not the case. Not sure why that is o.o
Oh so you final choice is spectral wraith ? Considering it gives mana as well and Eve's weak point in jungling was the total lack of sustain, it seemed an interesting alternative to the nerfed Lizard Spirit.
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On November 25 2013 18:00 Shikyo wrote:
Well, Trinity Force definitely seems like the way to go for Fiora. Maybe I need to ditch BotRK completely.
half my posts are something random about fiora
At this point I think riot should be looking to remake some of her kit. Her passive doesn't really fit into the overall character design. Riposte, cool design idea to match the character, but it simply falls short. It's primarily used for damage steroid passive, which is pretty lame reason to force some one to get the ability. It has niche uses early on in lane, but overall a useless ability that needs to be reworked. Also taking aoe dmg while she's in her ulti is pretty lame. :/ (unless they've changed this?)
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Voyboy played GP and built triforce->IE->warmogs->atmas and I'm wondering why. I mean he only picked GP for lulz, but why would you build health on him when his w synergises way better with cdr and resistances? Was it just to boost the atmas a bit?
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On November 25 2013 17:33 Gaslo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 16:15 GolemMadness wrote:
Despite many people's predictions, Eve's popularity and win rate have remained basically the same so far. I wonder if it'll start to pick up once things have settled down a bit and relic's is nerfed. Lolking claims Eves popularity has doubled since the patch came. From 3.xx% to over 7% of games played. Her winrate seems to be about the same, but that does not surprise me, so many new players trying her out in my games. :#
That's not fair though. Plenty of champions have had high changes in win rates even with an influx of new users. If Eve were super OP now she'd have seen a rise in wins lol. Maybe we just don't have enough data points yet.
I'm guessing Rengar and Eve have better ganks now but that they also suffer a bit since everyone's trinkets can reveal them or drop pink wards.
On November 25 2013 18:23 Osmoses wrote:
Voyboy played GP and built triforce->IE->warmogs->atmas and I'm wondering why. I mean he only picked GP for lulz, but why would you build health on him when his w synergises way better with cdr and resistances? Was it just to boost the atmas a bit?
I'm going to guess yes.
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On November 25 2013 18:00 Shikyo wrote:
Well, Trinity Force definitely seems like the way to go for Fiora. Maybe I need to ditch BotRK completely.
half my posts are something random about fiora
neither of those are good fiora items (I'm assuming you're talking about getting those first)
much to learn (high elo fiora main) always goes hydra-lw with a brutalizer in there
I think part of the reason people always have a hard time with Fiora is because they buy things that are bad for her like crit (minus IE lategame, MAYBE) and attackspeed
i mean, just look at dem at ratios.
On November 25 2013 18:23 Osmoses wrote:
Voyboy played GP and built triforce->IE->warmogs->atmas and I'm wondering why. I mean he only picked GP for lulz, but why would you build health on him when his w synergises way better with cdr and resistances? Was it just to boost the atmas a bit?
because of the cooldown of oranges barely matters in teamfights
pretty much the difference between getting 1 in a fight and possibly 2, if you go for some terrible 40% cdr gangplank build
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On November 25 2013 10:40 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 10:17 Alaric wrote:
So you're here talking about free sustain and complaining about stuff and "toxic" design, and you think it'd be fair to let Karma heal herself for 40% of her missing health every 30s or so? Just saying. Her W is really boring in ARAM. I guess I should have specified and moved my discussion to the super serious ARAM discussion guide.
Well, a lot of champs are "boring" in ARAM early on (Pantheon tends to suck pretty easily because he can't harass as easily, can't get ahed/put his opponent behind, so not only are you pretty limited early you're often in liability later depending on team comps; Ryze and Morde make me weep with their range for the first 10 minutes).
However her W becomes very good once the skirmishing/teamfighting stage starts, and she's very good in burst trades/disengage settings that happen before that, as people try to pick people off to push the first tower. I agree that she can seem binary (poke/shield, repeat), but so would be Nidalee. Janna and Lux even worse offenders.
On November 25 2013 13:08 Dusty wrote:
the more I play this patch the more I like it, it fixes so many issues at higher levels of play (mainly snowballing related), just need to iron out a few issues (relic/targon, obviously... and the fact that the defense tree sucks ass)
the fact that comebacks are so much more possible is really cool, I really like what they did with inhibitors.
Thing is, for it to be a comeback, you need somebody to pull ahead at some point.
As is, Relic plays a big part in the stale gold flux so we can hope so see it fixed with today's patch, however even without it the fact that there's more vision if people cooperate (because of the reverse fact of vision being harder to deny) means that people retain access to their jungle, which lets them catch up due to the huge exp bonuses associated with being behind.
The gold part is taken care of through the "assist streaks": as long as you get as many or more assists than you get kills every fight, and you don't get aced obviously, then you're banking a ton just because of how much free gold is bundled with the dumb mechanic. Sure, if you go 3 for 3 the enemy team will get a similar amount-but as soon as teamfights starts it means you'll go from 15k-11k to 25k-21k much faster, and suddenly that 4k lead means a lot less.
Remember how Royal were praised becuse of their very assertive aggression that let them close games out in a single sweep with a small gold lead? You still get some momentum now, but a much smaller lead, and a single lost teamfight makes you go from "ahead" to "even or behind".
I don't mean that the behind team should win 10 teamfights in a row to catch up, but currently they don't even have to win a teamfight, and if they do, they're ahead. While having the defender's advantage.
If you fuck up, then you should have to play well to make up for it. Now, you play "smart", avoid doing something outright bad, and it's enough to be back to even. What's the incentive to ruin that enemy jungler? What's the incentive to pool so much resources and coordinate plays so stressfully if the guys who play not to lose just need a mistake from you to take the lead?
TL;DR: the onus isn't on the team behind to make plays to catch up anymore, they can just stall and try their best to tie each teamfight, and all the gold flung their way means that the lead the enemy team had, however big initially, will eventually not mean anything.
I'm also afraid that once teams figure out how to deny objectives and fights with pressure rather than use their lead to force and win fights, a version making teamfighting so risky because the tiniest blunder destroys everything you carefully built will lead to more "slow death" patterns where you farm the map (and enemy jungle) out for 20 minutes to build up an insurmontable lead, then finish it in an anticlimactic, low risk battle. Choking plays instead of shocking plays.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On November 25 2013 12:10 Parametric wrote:play champions that can fulfill multiple roles, you get to know a few champs very well but there's still some variation in the play style so it isn't as boring. Examples would be Zyra/Annie for support/mid Fiddle for jungle/support/mid Lee/Riven for jungle/top/mid And then there's ADC's that can go top, but i never play ADC so i can't give any recommendations on that 
Vayne top yo, counters renekton just ask quas.
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On November 25 2013 18:56 Dusty wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 18:23 Osmoses wrote:
Voyboy played GP and built triforce->IE->warmogs->atmas and I'm wondering why. I mean he only picked GP for lulz, but why would you build health on him when his w synergises way better with cdr and resistances? Was it just to boost the atmas a bit? because of the cooldown of oranges barely matters in teamfights pretty much the difference between getting 1 in a fight and possibly 2, if you go for some terrible 40% cdr gangplank build
You think warmogs and atmas > frozen heart and spirit visage? That's 40cdr and it's pretty damn strong.
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EPT
