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On November 24 2013 05:03 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 04:57 canikizu wrote:On November 24 2013 03:56 koreasilver wrote:
Man, I'm really lost with the patch. Every game I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing. And I'm loving this patch lol. At first I tried to force myself to adapt to the new items and stuff, and I lost. But after that I just play my normal game and get the items like how I get it, and I'm on a big winning streak right now lol. And we all know Relic Shields is getting nerfed on PBE. So the gold generation in the nutshell right now is Ancient Coin: gives 2 gold per dead minion, so you can get like at most 12gold/30sec, or 4 gp10 Spellthief's Edge: gives 2 gp10 and 4 gold for basic attacking the champion in 10sec, so it's like 6 gp10. Relic Shields: charge cd nerfs from 30 to 60sec, so you can get a minion every 30sec, which is 4.1 gp10, and your lane partner get 10 gold/60sec = 1.7 gp10. If both players get relic shields, then the support one will get 4.1+1.7=5.8gp10 while carry get 1.7gp10. I think that although relic shields get nerfed, if both lane partners get it, it's still better item than all the other one. Spellthief gives good gp10 but gives you no sustain and requires you to autoattack their champions, which is risky at times. One minion every 30 seconds is not 4.1 gp10. I don't know in what world you're getting 4.1*30=123 gold for a minion
4.1GP10 = 24.6 gold per minute (or 1 minion/minute)
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Yeah, didn't read your post, so I didn't know that you were talking about PBE changes. His math is invalid nonetheless :3
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On November 24 2013 03:01 Alaric wrote:
The more different stuff you can, the more decision-making there is in mashing these keys or not, whether to stall for a cooldown, turn around, how to flee, etc. is what makes a champion harder to play. Obviously having skillshots and such range on skills that you can skirt around it tends to add to it too.
Riven and Zed have low skill floors because you can pretty much mash your keyboard and still do okay (less so with Zed now since it's harder to get all the damage from his ult), however they also have the potential of applying decision-making to get more out of it that simply "get the job done", so it increases their skill ceiling.
Problems occur when you don't need to shoot for the skill ceiling because you don't get enough out of it for it to be worth the effort.
Also Riven is dumb as shit so I could probably have used a better example.
On November 24 2013 03:05 nafta wrote:
Draven.No matter how much I try I can never make axes land where I want them to.Maybe one day....
I think that Draven is an excellent example; noone can catch every single axe.
Zed (shadow positioning, who to ult, when to switch, etc.) and Orianna (ball positioning, paying attention to who it's on in addition to which skill to use at the moment) are the other two I would submit as having an infinite skill cap. There are probably more if I give it some thought, but 100+ champs is a lot to process.
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On November 24 2013 05:06 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 05:03 obesechicken13 wrote:On November 24 2013 04:57 canikizu wrote:On November 24 2013 03:56 koreasilver wrote:
Man, I'm really lost with the patch. Every game I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing. And I'm loving this patch lol. At first I tried to force myself to adapt to the new items and stuff, and I lost. But after that I just play my normal game and get the items like how I get it, and I'm on a big winning streak right now lol. And we all know Relic Shields is getting nerfed on PBE. So the gold generation in the nutshell right now is Ancient Coin: gives 2 gold per dead minion, so you can get like at most 12gold/30sec, or 4 gp10 Spellthief's Edge: gives 2 gp10 and 4 gold for basic attacking the champion in 10sec, so it's like 6 gp10. Relic Shields: charge cd nerfs from 30 to 60sec, so you can get a minion every 30sec, which is 4.1 gp10, and your lane partner get 10 gold/60sec = 1.7 gp10. If both players get relic shields, then the support one will get 4.1+1.7=5.8gp10 while carry get 1.7gp10. I think that although relic shields get nerfed, if both lane partners get it, it's still better item than all the other one. Spellthief gives good gp10 but gives you no sustain and requires you to autoattack their champions, which is risky at times. One minion every 30 seconds is not 4.1 gp10. I don't know in what world you're getting 4.1*30=123 gold for a minion I'm talking about the PBE. Relic Shields cd changes from 30 to 60, so you can only use to kill 1 minion(25gold for example) every 60sec. So it's like 4.1 gold per 10.
Show your work?
Relic shield gives 5 gold bonus. Targon's gives 10.
Assuming you get 25 gold per minion. And relic shield is not on pbe. You get 25 gold for your kill (but that's not gold gained from the item, that's gold outside of the item that you get naturally). Your ally gets 25 gold. Your ally then gets 5 gold. So your team gains a bonus of 30 gold from that item in 30 seconds. 1 gold per second. .1 gold per 10.
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Catching axes isn't that difficult tbh.The hard thing is making them land where you want to go.Because a lot of times you simply can't go catch them because of zoning from enemy.Also very often you just do more damage with just regular kiting instead of wasting extra bit of time to reach it.
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On November 24 2013 05:17 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 05:06 canikizu wrote:On November 24 2013 05:03 obesechicken13 wrote:On November 24 2013 04:57 canikizu wrote:On November 24 2013 03:56 koreasilver wrote:
Man, I'm really lost with the patch. Every game I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing. And I'm loving this patch lol. At first I tried to force myself to adapt to the new items and stuff, and I lost. But after that I just play my normal game and get the items like how I get it, and I'm on a big winning streak right now lol. And we all know Relic Shields is getting nerfed on PBE. So the gold generation in the nutshell right now is Ancient Coin: gives 2 gold per dead minion, so you can get like at most 12gold/30sec, or 4 gp10 Spellthief's Edge: gives 2 gp10 and 4 gold for basic attacking the champion in 10sec, so it's like 6 gp10. Relic Shields: charge cd nerfs from 30 to 60sec, so you can get a minion every 30sec, which is 4.1 gp10, and your lane partner get 10 gold/60sec = 1.7 gp10. If both players get relic shields, then the support one will get 4.1+1.7=5.8gp10 while carry get 1.7gp10. I think that although relic shields get nerfed, if both lane partners get it, it's still better item than all the other one. Spellthief gives good gp10 but gives you no sustain and requires you to autoattack their champions, which is risky at times. One minion every 30 seconds is not 4.1 gp10. I don't know in what world you're getting 4.1*30=123 gold for a minion I'm talking about the PBE. Relic Shields cd changes from 30 to 60, so you can only use to kill 1 minion(25gold for example) every 60sec. So it's like 4.1 gold per 10. Show your work? Relic shield gives 5 gold bonus. Targon's gives 10. Assuming you get 25 gold per minion. And relic shield is not on pbe. You get 25 gold for your kill (but that's not gold gained from the item, that's gold outside of the item that you get naturally). Your ally gets 25 gold. Your ally then gets 5 gold. So your team gains a bonus of 30 gold from that item in 30 seconds. 1 gold per second. .1 gold per 10.
1 gold per second would be 10 gold per 10 seconds. I'm confused, are you trolling with the math you're doing
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United States47024 Posts
On November 24 2013 04:56 Clinic wrote:
heart of gold took a while to pay for itself too, and it lost the gold generation when combined
You also couldn't start the game with Heart of Gold.
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On November 24 2013 05:24 MattBarry wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 05:17 obesechicken13 wrote:On November 24 2013 05:06 canikizu wrote:On November 24 2013 05:03 obesechicken13 wrote:On November 24 2013 04:57 canikizu wrote:On November 24 2013 03:56 koreasilver wrote:
Man, I'm really lost with the patch. Every game I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing. And I'm loving this patch lol. At first I tried to force myself to adapt to the new items and stuff, and I lost. But after that I just play my normal game and get the items like how I get it, and I'm on a big winning streak right now lol. And we all know Relic Shields is getting nerfed on PBE. So the gold generation in the nutshell right now is Ancient Coin: gives 2 gold per dead minion, so you can get like at most 12gold/30sec, or 4 gp10 Spellthief's Edge: gives 2 gp10 and 4 gold for basic attacking the champion in 10sec, so it's like 6 gp10. Relic Shields: charge cd nerfs from 30 to 60sec, so you can get a minion every 30sec, which is 4.1 gp10, and your lane partner get 10 gold/60sec = 1.7 gp10. If both players get relic shields, then the support one will get 4.1+1.7=5.8gp10 while carry get 1.7gp10. I think that although relic shields get nerfed, if both lane partners get it, it's still better item than all the other one. Spellthief gives good gp10 but gives you no sustain and requires you to autoattack their champions, which is risky at times. One minion every 30 seconds is not 4.1 gp10. I don't know in what world you're getting 4.1*30=123 gold for a minion I'm talking about the PBE. Relic Shields cd changes from 30 to 60, so you can only use to kill 1 minion(25gold for example) every 60sec. So it's like 4.1 gold per 10. Show your work? Relic shield gives 5 gold bonus. Targon's gives 10. Assuming you get 25 gold per minion. And relic shield is not on pbe. You get 25 gold for your kill (but that's not gold gained from the item, that's gold outside of the item that you get naturally). Your ally gets 25 gold. Your ally then gets 5 gold. So your team gains a bonus of 30 gold from that item in 30 seconds. 1 gold per second. .1 gold per 10. 1 gold per second would be 10 gold per 10 seconds. I'm confused, are you trolling with the math you're doing
Nah I just messed up. You're right. It is 10 gp10. Still far from whatever was given before.
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On November 24 2013 05:24 MattBarry wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 05:17 obesechicken13 wrote:On November 24 2013 05:06 canikizu wrote:On November 24 2013 05:03 obesechicken13 wrote:On November 24 2013 04:57 canikizu wrote:On November 24 2013 03:56 koreasilver wrote:
Man, I'm really lost with the patch. Every game I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing. And I'm loving this patch lol. At first I tried to force myself to adapt to the new items and stuff, and I lost. But after that I just play my normal game and get the items like how I get it, and I'm on a big winning streak right now lol. And we all know Relic Shields is getting nerfed on PBE. So the gold generation in the nutshell right now is Ancient Coin: gives 2 gold per dead minion, so you can get like at most 12gold/30sec, or 4 gp10 Spellthief's Edge: gives 2 gp10 and 4 gold for basic attacking the champion in 10sec, so it's like 6 gp10. Relic Shields: charge cd nerfs from 30 to 60sec, so you can get a minion every 30sec, which is 4.1 gp10, and your lane partner get 10 gold/60sec = 1.7 gp10. If both players get relic shields, then the support one will get 4.1+1.7=5.8gp10 while carry get 1.7gp10. I think that although relic shields get nerfed, if both lane partners get it, it's still better item than all the other one. Spellthief gives good gp10 but gives you no sustain and requires you to autoattack their champions, which is risky at times. One minion every 30 seconds is not 4.1 gp10. I don't know in what world you're getting 4.1*30=123 gold for a minion I'm talking about the PBE. Relic Shields cd changes from 30 to 60, so you can only use to kill 1 minion(25gold for example) every 60sec. So it's like 4.1 gold per 10. Show your work? Relic shield gives 5 gold bonus. Targon's gives 10. Assuming you get 25 gold per minion. And relic shield is not on pbe. You get 25 gold for your kill (but that's not gold gained from the item, that's gold outside of the item that you get naturally). Your ally gets 25 gold. Your ally then gets 5 gold. So your team gains a bonus of 30 gold from that item in 30 seconds. 1 gold per second. .1 gold per 10. 1 gold per second would be 10 gold per 10 seconds. I'm confused, are you trolling with the math you're doing
He obviously just made a mistake. Not everyone is trolling every time they make an error.
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On November 24 2013 05:31 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 05:24 MattBarry wrote:On November 24 2013 05:17 obesechicken13 wrote:On November 24 2013 05:06 canikizu wrote:On November 24 2013 05:03 obesechicken13 wrote:On November 24 2013 04:57 canikizu wrote:On November 24 2013 03:56 koreasilver wrote:
Man, I'm really lost with the patch. Every game I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing. And I'm loving this patch lol. At first I tried to force myself to adapt to the new items and stuff, and I lost. But after that I just play my normal game and get the items like how I get it, and I'm on a big winning streak right now lol. And we all know Relic Shields is getting nerfed on PBE. So the gold generation in the nutshell right now is Ancient Coin: gives 2 gold per dead minion, so you can get like at most 12gold/30sec, or 4 gp10 Spellthief's Edge: gives 2 gp10 and 4 gold for basic attacking the champion in 10sec, so it's like 6 gp10. Relic Shields: charge cd nerfs from 30 to 60sec, so you can get a minion every 30sec, which is 4.1 gp10, and your lane partner get 10 gold/60sec = 1.7 gp10. If both players get relic shields, then the support one will get 4.1+1.7=5.8gp10 while carry get 1.7gp10. I think that although relic shields get nerfed, if both lane partners get it, it's still better item than all the other one. Spellthief gives good gp10 but gives you no sustain and requires you to autoattack their champions, which is risky at times. One minion every 30 seconds is not 4.1 gp10. I don't know in what world you're getting 4.1*30=123 gold for a minion I'm talking about the PBE. Relic Shields cd changes from 30 to 60, so you can only use to kill 1 minion(25gold for example) every 60sec. So it's like 4.1 gold per 10. Show your work? Relic shield gives 5 gold bonus. Targon's gives 10. Assuming you get 25 gold per minion. And relic shield is not on pbe. You get 25 gold for your kill (but that's not gold gained from the item, that's gold outside of the item that you get naturally). Your ally gets 25 gold. Your ally then gets 5 gold. So your team gains a bonus of 30 gold from that item in 30 seconds. 1 gold per second. .1 gold per 10. 1 gold per second would be 10 gold per 10 seconds. I'm confused, are you trolling with the math you're doing He obviously just made a mistake. Not everyone is trolling every time they make an error.
Thanks
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On November 24 2013 05:17 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 05:06 canikizu wrote:On November 24 2013 05:03 obesechicken13 wrote:On November 24 2013 04:57 canikizu wrote:On November 24 2013 03:56 koreasilver wrote:
Man, I'm really lost with the patch. Every game I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing. And I'm loving this patch lol. At first I tried to force myself to adapt to the new items and stuff, and I lost. But after that I just play my normal game and get the items like how I get it, and I'm on a big winning streak right now lol. And we all know Relic Shields is getting nerfed on PBE. So the gold generation in the nutshell right now is Ancient Coin: gives 2 gold per dead minion, so you can get like at most 12gold/30sec, or 4 gp10 Spellthief's Edge: gives 2 gp10 and 4 gold for basic attacking the champion in 10sec, so it's like 6 gp10. Relic Shields: charge cd nerfs from 30 to 60sec, so you can get a minion every 30sec, which is 4.1 gp10, and your lane partner get 10 gold/60sec = 1.7 gp10. If both players get relic shields, then the support one will get 4.1+1.7=5.8gp10 while carry get 1.7gp10. I think that although relic shields get nerfed, if both lane partners get it, it's still better item than all the other one. Spellthief gives good gp10 but gives you no sustain and requires you to autoattack their champions, which is risky at times. One minion every 30 seconds is not 4.1 gp10. I don't know in what world you're getting 4.1*30=123 gold for a minion I'm talking about the PBE. Relic Shields cd changes from 30 to 60, so you can only use to kill 1 minion(25gold for example) every 60sec. So it's like 4.1 gold per 10. Show your work? Relic shield gives 5 gold bonus. Targon's gives 10. Assuming you get 25 gold per minion. And relic shield is not on pbe. You get 25 gold for your kill (but that's not gold gained from the item, that's gold outside of the item that you get naturally). Your ally gets 25 gold. Your ally then gets 5 gold. So your team gains a bonus of 30 gold from that item in 30 seconds. 1 gold per second. .1 gold per 10.
![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pboTRCtXtlY/UpAVQ4gW64I/AAAAAAAAJoA/tOZgkDETmsE/s320/relic.jpg)
Relics shield doesn't give passive gold like any other items. It's disguised in the form that you have to "last hit" the minion yourself. If you don't last hit the minion, your lane partner, the carry, still have to last hit it. Your partner doesn't magically get that 25 gold, if you don't "last hit" it, your partner has to last hit it as usual.
So in the nutshell, it gives you a minion kill, and your partner 5 gold every 60 sec.
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On November 24 2013 03:56 koreasilver wrote:
Man, I'm really lost with the patch. Every game I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing.
I feel the exact same. I'm not sure if I should be duoing top, jungling, or what.
I really would like 2-1-2 lanes to be an option, because I think it'd bring some interesting game flow and lane compositions to play around with, but not at the expense of making jungle obsolete.
Also, what are supports building nowadays? Still sightstone rush after Targons?
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On November 24 2013 05:36 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 05:17 obesechicken13 wrote:On November 24 2013 05:06 canikizu wrote:On November 24 2013 05:03 obesechicken13 wrote:On November 24 2013 04:57 canikizu wrote:On November 24 2013 03:56 koreasilver wrote:
Man, I'm really lost with the patch. Every game I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing. And I'm loving this patch lol. At first I tried to force myself to adapt to the new items and stuff, and I lost. But after that I just play my normal game and get the items like how I get it, and I'm on a big winning streak right now lol. And we all know Relic Shields is getting nerfed on PBE. So the gold generation in the nutshell right now is Ancient Coin: gives 2 gold per dead minion, so you can get like at most 12gold/30sec, or 4 gp10 Spellthief's Edge: gives 2 gp10 and 4 gold for basic attacking the champion in 10sec, so it's like 6 gp10. Relic Shields: charge cd nerfs from 30 to 60sec, so you can get a minion every 30sec, which is 4.1 gp10, and your lane partner get 10 gold/60sec = 1.7 gp10. If both players get relic shields, then the support one will get 4.1+1.7=5.8gp10 while carry get 1.7gp10. I think that although relic shields get nerfed, if both lane partners get it, it's still better item than all the other one. Spellthief gives good gp10 but gives you no sustain and requires you to autoattack their champions, which is risky at times. One minion every 30 seconds is not 4.1 gp10. I don't know in what world you're getting 4.1*30=123 gold for a minion I'm talking about the PBE. Relic Shields cd changes from 30 to 60, so you can only use to kill 1 minion(25gold for example) every 60sec. So it's like 4.1 gold per 10. Show your work? Relic shield gives 5 gold bonus. Targon's gives 10. Assuming you get 25 gold per minion. And relic shield is not on pbe. You get 25 gold for your kill (but that's not gold gained from the item, that's gold outside of the item that you get naturally). Your ally gets 25 gold. Your ally then gets 5 gold. So your team gains a bonus of 30 gold from that item in 30 seconds. 1 gold per second. .1 gold per 10. Relics shield doesn't give passive gold like any other items. It's disguised in the form that you have to "last hit" the minion yourself. If you don't last hit the minion, your lane partner, the carry, still have to last hit it. Your partner doesn't magically get that 25 gold, if you don't "last hit" it, your partner has to last hit it as usual. So in the nutshell, it gives you a minion kill, and your partner 5 gold every 60 sec.
I'm not sure what your point is. I didn't argue anything to the contrary.
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So in the nutshell, it gives you a minion kill, and your partner 5 gold every 60 sec.
It gives you a minion kill, it gives your partner a minion kill and additional gold.
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This patch is incredibly fun. I've never enjoyed LoL so much since I started playing.
The 5 vs 5 same champ mode is also hilarious. First game, I get team to agree to play Blitz. Hilarity ensues.
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lol you said to show my work...
i hate u guys.
On November 24 2013 05:51 DiracMonopole wrote:Show nested quote +
So in the nutshell, it gives you a minion kill, and your partner 5 gold every 60 sec.
It gives you a minion kill, it gives your partner a minion kill and additional gold.
But your partner, the carry is supposed to kill the minion himself though.
So the item doesn't actually pump 2 minion gold+5 gold to the system. It only pumps 1 minion kill+5gold = 30 gold every 60 minute to the system.
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It lets you donate some of your income to your carry. With a bonus, and at the cost of not costing a minion. It's glorious.
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On November 24 2013 05:53 bmn wrote:
This patch is incredibly fun. I've never enjoyed LoL so much since I started playing.
The 5 vs 5 same champ mode is also hilarious. First game, I get team to agree to play Blitz. Hilarity ensues.
I played 5 hecarim vs 5 janna that was pretty fun.
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On November 24 2013 05:54 canikizu wrote:
lol you said to show my work...
i hate u guys.
You didn't show your work.
+ Show Spoiler +Relic Shields: charge cd nerfs from 30 to 60sec, so you can get a minion every 30sec, which is 4.1 gp10, and your lane partner get 10 gold/60sec = 1.7 gp10. If both players get relic shields, then the support one will get 4.1+1.7=5.8gp10 while carry get 1.7gp10.
This is all you said.
You didn't show how much a minion is worth. You didn't do any math to get to 4.1gp10 from your minion every 30 seconds. You just gave the end result.
An equivalent would be like me saying black cleaver corki does 350 dps which is more than 40% more than an IE PD build.
Did I mention who my target was and how much armor they had? Did I mention whether I was adding spells? Did I mention whether I had taken gold value into account?
Anyways, I probably need to cool down too. Maybe we can discuss later when we're both more relaxed.
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5 veigar vs 5 ezreals is like a giant game of cat and mouse...and the mice won
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EPT
