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[Patch 3.14] PreSeason 4 General Discussion - Page 54

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
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Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-23 22:43:24
November 23 2013 22:42 GMT
#1061
This preseason is so effin' awesome. Just had a game where I played Taric and 1v1ed a lategame Jax in opponent jungle, while my team was spamming back pick - little did they know the marvelous power of Taric with items. Then procede to casually stroll into the 4 last enemies and get triple kill during the teamfight.

Hard carrying as support is the best thing to ever happen in League. :D
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
November 23 2013 22:46 GMT
#1062
On November 24 2013 07:42 Jek wrote:
This preseason is so effin' awesome. Just had a game where I played Taric and 1v1ed a lategame Jax in opponent jungle, while my team was spamming back pick - little did they know the marvelous power of Taric with items. Then procede to casually stroll into the 4 last enemies and get triple kill during the teamfight.

Hard carrying as support is the best thing to ever happen in League. :D

Well, except you're not a support at all. You're just a guy who's not taking last hits, but that's it.
The legend of Darien lives on
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
November 23 2013 22:48 GMT
#1063
if you define support as someone who never has any gold you'd be a great support tolkien
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
November 23 2013 22:50 GMT
#1064
Taric:

November 20: 51.53% win rate
November 21: 57.15% win rate
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
November 23 2013 22:51 GMT
#1065
One for all is a hoot.

Played Darius vs Nocturne. Oh god the dunks.
Jinx vs Eve
Orianna vs Ziggs. Dodgeball crazy
Ziggs vs Ezreal (IIRC). We were going to all ult their base from jungle since we had their inhibs down but they surrendered.
Nidalee vs Kat - Kat rapes this so hard. Nida too squishy for that lol
Donger vs wukong
Ezreal vs Nidalee
Fiddle vs Ziggs
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
November 23 2013 22:53 GMT
#1066
You guys have to try Zyra vs Soraka.

It's the ultimate battle. 50 minute intense game where if you don't kill a soraka fast enough she heals everything. It's the fucking best.
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
November 23 2013 22:58 GMT
#1067
On November 24 2013 07:42 Jek wrote:
This preseason is so effin' awesome. Just had a game where I played Taric and 1v1ed a lategame Jax in opponent jungle, while my team was spamming back pick - little did they know the marvelous power of Taric with items. Then procede to casually stroll into the 4 last enemies and get triple kill during the teamfight.

Hard carrying as support is the best thing to ever happen in League. :D

It's because of the new "assist bonus", as long as your kill is lower than your assist by 2, you get bonus gold for every assist, and the "streak" doesn't break even if you die or score a kill.
http://www.twitch.tv/leritt/c/3279507
Like in the video, the Nasus got 10 kill 21 assist, and he make 300 gold for an assist.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
November 23 2013 22:58 GMT
#1068
has anyone actually been able to poke anyone out of bot lane at all? with double targons it feels like you either all in or you just shouldnt bother, health regen + heal proc is just soooo boring.

obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-23 23:01:56
November 23 2013 22:58 GMT
#1069
On November 24 2013 07:12 thenexusp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 07:08 obesechicken13 wrote:
on November 24 2013 06:30 Ketara wrote:
On November 24 2013 06:15 canikizu wrote:
On November 24 2013 06:03 obesechicken13 wrote:
On November 24 2013 05:54 canikizu wrote:
lol you said to show my work...
i hate u guys.

You didn't show your work.

+ Show Spoiler +
Relic Shields: charge cd nerfs from 30 to 60sec, so you can get a minion every 30sec, which is 4.1 gp10, and your lane partner get 10 gold/60sec = 1.7 gp10. If both players get relic shields, then the support one will get 4.1+1.7=5.8gp10 while carry get 1.7gp10.


This is all you said.



You didn't show how much a minion is worth. You didn't do any math to get to 4.1gp10 from your minion every 30 seconds. You just gave the end result.

An equivalent would be like me saying black cleaver corki does 350 dps which is more than 40% more than an IE PD build.

Did I mention who my target was and how much armor they had? Did I mention whether I was adding spells? Did I mention whether I had taken gold value into account?

Anyways, I probably need to cool down too. Maybe we can discuss later when we're both more relaxed.

I got typos lol.
You can get a minion every 60sec, so that's 25gold/6 = 4.1 gp10.
your partner get 5 gold per 60 sec, so he got 5gold/6 = 0.8 gp10.

so oops, real number is worse than I thought.


Try it this way.

25gold+5gold/60 = 30gold/60 = 5gold/10.

And if you're counting cannon minions, which give 40 gold instead of 25, that's an additional 15 gold/90, or 1.66/10


Real number is 6.66 GP10 for Relics, 7.49 GP10 for Targons. That's after the nerf mind, right now they're giving double that.

I think it's better to use (25+25+45)/3 as the average gold per minute if you're going to only kill melee minions and cannons.

The value of 25,25,45 is valid from 15 to 18 minutes (I think this is measured from when minions start spawning but could be wrong). So for more than 15 minutes of game time you'll have less than the calculated gold.

Even being this generous, (25+25+45)/3=31.667 gold per minion just from the kill. 31.667+5(relic shield's bonus)=36.667.
36.667/60=.61112 gps or 6.1112 gp10

This is definitely generous. I would like to see a spreadsheet for the numbers that took into account gold growth but if we were to go through that much effort we might as well do real game tests.

25+25+45 is accurate because your ally gets 5 bonus gold (so it's 20+20+40 for you and 5+5+5 for your ally)

That was factored in later. See the bold section in the quote.

On November 24 2013 07:50 GolemMadness wrote:
Taric:

November 20: 51.53% win rate
November 21: 57.15% win rate

He can reduce his cooldowns a lot by "spell and auto weaving" which is just autoattacking in between spells. I have a video about it on youtube if you want to see.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-23 23:38:42
November 23 2013 23:22 GMT
#1070
On November 24 2013 05:06 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 04:58 wei2coolman wrote:
On November 24 2013 04:51 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Is double targon in lane really that good? Doesnt it take like 15 minutes just to break even?

More like 10ish I think. Either way, it allows your team to shove waves hard, due to how good the execute part of it is. Also gives a significant amount of health along with large amounts of sustain. The item itself is pretty cost efficient without the gold generation. The extra you are paying for the gold generation bonus is paid off in like 3 minutes.

I can see the base stats being a pretty good thing to start off, but why not start off with doran's + pot? Or why do people upgrade to targons? The relic starts off with 50 gold per minute for your ally (2 creeps +5gold) so the base pays off after about 9-10 minutes (assuming you are able to use it on siege). Upgrading to targon's gives a little more GPM and stats, but you can instead put that money into a damage item and take the lane, no?


Nah, the sustain with relics is way too high as well. It's like impossible to get shoved out of lane with it if you have any other piece of sustain. You pretty well shrug off all harass after a single targon proc.

Me and my support go Targons. We get 175 HP, 12 HP5 and about 8.5 GP10.

You and your support go 2x Dorans blade. You guys get 160 HP and 16 AD. Targons brace lane gets more HP, and heals back the extra auto attack damage you do after armor in 5 seconds without even using the +2% HP proc on Targons.
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
November 23 2013 23:38 GMT
#1071
omg obesechicken, does even autoattacking and casting spells have a new name now? If you want to give an unnecessary name to something, at least make it sound cool. Like Spellhammering.
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
November 23 2013 23:39 GMT
#1072
On November 24 2013 08:38 Scip wrote:
omg obesechicken, does even autoattacking and casting spells have a new name now? If you want to give an unnecessary name to something, at least make it sound cool. Like Spellhammering.

I approve of this name.
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
November 23 2013 23:42 GMT
#1073
On November 24 2013 08:38 Scip wrote:
omg obesechicken, does even autoattacking and casting spells have a new name now? If you want to give an unnecessary name to something, at least make it sound cool. Like Spellhammering.

Apparently. It's a mastery in the offense mastery. Pretty soon the casters will be saying it too along with final spark and marksman.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
November 23 2013 23:44 GMT
#1074
if you look at the mastery list you will see there is no mastery called "spell and auto weaving"
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
November 23 2013 23:49 GMT
#1075
On November 24 2013 08:44 Scip wrote:
if you look at the mastery list you will see there is no mastery called "spell and auto weaving"


There is however one called Blade weaving, and one called spell weaving.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35173 Posts
November 23 2013 23:53 GMT
#1076
I still want to see the new bloodrazors.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
November 24 2013 00:01 GMT
#1077
On November 24 2013 08:44 Scip wrote:
if you look at the mastery list you will see there is no mastery called "spell and auto weaving"

I took some artistic liberties
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
November 24 2013 00:04 GMT
#1078
Yasuo's W has got to be the stupidest idea Riot has ever come up with. This skill by itself can pretty much nullify 3/4 of the ultimate abilities in this game.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35173 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-24 00:10:37
November 24 2013 00:06 GMT
#1079
On November 24 2013 09:04 Sufficiency wrote:
Yasuo's W has got to be the stupidest idea Riot has ever come up with. This skill by itself can pretty much nullify 3/4 of the ultimate abilities in this game.

His entire kit is dumb. Why does his Q get CDR from CDR and AS? Why does his E say "pick up a lichbane and abuse the fuck out of me! I like gunblades too!" while having 0 cooldown.

Watch me zippity zoop zoop zoop around your team with an effective 1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, and 2.0 ap ratio with zero cost and zero cooldown. Oh look at that, because of maxed windwall I now get a shield cause I got my groove back.

Shit is worse than AP Yi alpha strike.
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
November 24 2013 00:08 GMT
#1080
On November 24 2013 08:22 iCanada wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 05:06 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On November 24 2013 04:58 wei2coolman wrote:
On November 24 2013 04:51 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Is double targon in lane really that good? Doesnt it take like 15 minutes just to break even?

More like 10ish I think. Either way, it allows your team to shove waves hard, due to how good the execute part of it is. Also gives a significant amount of health along with large amounts of sustain. The item itself is pretty cost efficient without the gold generation. The extra you are paying for the gold generation bonus is paid off in like 3 minutes.

I can see the base stats being a pretty good thing to start off, but why not start off with doran's + pot? Or why do people upgrade to targons? The relic starts off with 50 gold per minute for your ally (2 creeps +5gold) so the base pays off after about 9-10 minutes (assuming you are able to use it on siege). Upgrading to targon's gives a little more GPM and stats, but you can instead put that money into a damage item and take the lane, no?


Nah, the sustain with relics is way too high as well. It's like impossible to get shoved out of lane with it if you have any other piece of sustain. You pretty well shrug off all harass after a single targon proc.

Me and my support go Targons. We get 175 HP, 12 HP5 and about 8.5 GP10.

You and your support go 2x Dorans blade. You guys get 160 HP and 16 AD. Targons brace lane gets more HP, and heals back the extra auto attack damage you do after armor in 5 seconds without even using the +2% HP proc on Targons.

Interesting, the way you describe it it seems like it could be worth it for solo lanes even.
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