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On November 24 2013 11:06 TheLink wrote:So in other words all our problems stem from Junglers refusing to accept they're a fellow bitch role and wanting to be full carries. 
That might be how the playerbase feels, but we have to keep in mind that the non-pro scene is extremely copycat. The way to influence casual players is to engender the pro scene to play in a certain way, and lower levels will slowly follow.
Supports have been 0 farm 0 item because the game is designed in a way that such play is optimal. We have champions with high utility and terrible scaling designed to fit this role, rather than designed to be unique and independent, and now we have dedicated income streams mean only for supports (which has immediately been broken and abused).
If you want people to do X, then make it so that X is the most favorable choice, rather than making Y and Z impossible while sliding X through backhand mechanics. If it was optimal for every player to have a hexdrinker at some point in the game, then pro teams would channel gold to supports so they could buy hexdrinker, and the plebian casual masses would slowly follow suit.
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On November 24 2013 11:09 wei2coolman wrote:
What if they made it so there's 8th slot specifically for gold generating items? They did it for trinkets. :D
They already added so many random counter-intuitive "if X, Y" changes already though.
I think its a little telling how awkward and weird the "free Trinket!" is in the store when pros can completely miss that it is even there for a long time.
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On November 24 2013 10:37 iCanada wrote:
LOL.
Saint buys the free trinkewt at the 8 minute mark.
Trololol.
FREE IS STILL TOO MUCH
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On November 24 2013 11:19 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 11:09 wei2coolman wrote:
What if they made it so there's 8th slot specifically for gold generating items? They did it for trinkets. :D They already added so many random counter-intuitive "if X, Y" changes already though. I think its a little telling how awkward and weird the "free Trinket!" is in the store when pros can completely miss that it is even there for a long time.
It has a lot to do with habits imo. Also no one even uses their trinket well. :/
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On November 24 2013 11:23 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 11:19 iCanada wrote:On November 24 2013 11:09 wei2coolman wrote:
What if they made it so there's 8th slot specifically for gold generating items? They did it for trinkets. :D They already added so many random counter-intuitive "if X, Y" changes already though. I think its a little telling how awkward and weird the "free Trinket!" is in the store when pros can completely miss that it is even there for a long time. It has a lot to do with habits imo. Also no one even uses their trinket well. :/
Fair enough.
It screws up all my item hotkeys. I got to use my active items, click 4, and then I just have ward.
-.-
Has killed me probably 4-5 times from missed Locket/Zhonya activations. I suppose I should just redo them hotkeys...
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I've noticed that in all the games I've played, the jungler was at or above the level of the solo laners. Most of the time junglers of both teams. If one jungler got horribly destroyed, he generally was maybe 1 level behind the sololaners.
What's with this?
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On November 24 2013 11:25 Shikyo wrote:
I've noticed that in all the games I've played, the jungler was at or above the level of the solo laners. Most of the time junglers of both teams. If one jungler got horribly destroyed, he generally was maybe 1 level behind the sololaners.
What's with this?
Jungle xp makes it hard for jungles to fall behind in levels.
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I've been watching tsm streams and other pro players streams to see how things are at high elo, and what ive noticed is the black map. And not just because people dont ward, but because they cant. People have full inventories by 25-30 minutes so the only wards are the trinkets and 3 from a supprort player.
Its crazy the amount of surprise buttsex going on @.@
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On November 24 2013 10:52 Nemireck wrote:
All that arguing over the gp10 of Targons/Relics, and no one stopped these guys to point out that it's the execute+heal that makes it so ridiculous?
I am disappoint, TL... I am soooo disappoint.
EDIT:
What they should have really done, instead of just changing the charge CD, is remove the execute, and the bonus gold. Give the flat gold for the minion to both laners, and a bit of health, but remove the "LOL LASTHIT 2EZ" mechanic from the item.
The execute/heal are far less ridiculous when they happen half as often and aren't on an item that gives practically double the gp10 of its peers.
That's why they didn't come up. Relic Shield provides 8.3 - 10 gp10 while Ancient Coin and Spellthief's Edge top out at 4 gp10 and 5 gp10 respectively. That's why Riot's nerfing Relic Shield's recharge rate first. I don't think the item is balanced yet, but it really shouldn't be surprising that everyone was focused on the most blatantly overpowered aspect of the item first.
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On November 24 2013 12:19 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 10:52 Nemireck wrote:
All that arguing over the gp10 of Targons/Relics, and no one stopped these guys to point out that it's the execute+heal that makes it so ridiculous?
I am disappoint, TL... I am soooo disappoint.
EDIT:
What they should have really done, instead of just changing the charge CD, is remove the execute, and the bonus gold. Give the flat gold for the minion to both laners, and a bit of health, but remove the "LOL LASTHIT 2EZ" mechanic from the item. The execute/heal are far less ridiculous when they happen half as often and aren't on an item that gives practically double the gp10 of its peers. That's why they didn't come up. Relic Shield provides 8.3 - 10 gp10 while Ancient Coin and Spellthief's Edge top out at 4 gp10 and 5 gp10 respectively. That's why Riot's nerfing Relic Shield's recharge rate first. I don't think the item is balanced yet, but it really shouldn't be surprising that everyone was focused on the most blatantly overpowered aspect of the item first.
It's also worth noting that the execute is getting nerfed to only apply on melee basic attacks.
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basic attacks is still a little misleading since the execute mechanic does ~250 damage, so just saying melee only is enough.
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On November 24 2013 11:06 TheLink wrote:So in other words all our problems stem from Junglers refusing to accept they're a fellow bitch role and wanting to be full carries.
I can't speak for everyone but personally I just have an issue with the fact that junglers went from 4th position to 5th position or negligible. Not to mention that Riot stated that they were gonna buff junglers, but the patch just feels like an overall nerf. In other words, the outcome was the opposite of Riot's stated goal, which sucks. Then again, it's not the first time they've done that.
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So basically junglers will take buffs then sit in a lane? That sounds different except not at all.
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On November 24 2013 12:39 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 11:06 TheLink wrote:So in other words all our problems stem from Junglers refusing to accept they're a fellow bitch role and wanting to be full carries. I can't speak for everyone but personally I just have an issue with the fact that junglers went from 4th position to 5th position or negligible. Not to mention that Riot stated that they were gonna buff junglers, but the patch just feels like an overall nerf. In other words, the outcome was the opposite of Riot's stated goal, which sucks. Then again, it's not the first time they've done that.
I don't feel like the patch nerfs jungler.
You may feel it that way because relic shield is op and create the situation 2-1-2 vs 1-1-2 which is clearly superior for 2-1-2. However, if you think about it, going jungling still gives you better xp for you and your solo lane, and after you get golem spirit, it's like having a 8gp10 item on top of the monster bounty.
When relic shields got nerfed down, we'll see junglers coming back i guess.
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i think the thing i hate the most about trinkets is that hotkey 4 was almost always for my potions n shit
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On November 24 2013 12:52 suicideyear wrote:
i think the thing i hate the most about trinkets is that hotkey 4 was almost always for my potions n shit
the hotkey interface on lol makes any complaint of this nature invalid, it's super fast to change this stuff, like sub 15 seconds.
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On November 24 2013 12:55 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 12:52 suicideyear wrote:
i think the thing i hate the most about trinkets is that hotkey 4 was almost always for my potions n shit the hotkey interface on lol makes any complaint of this nature invalid, it's super fast to change this stuff, like sub 15 seconds.
you don't understand
I DON'T LIKE CHANGE
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5 Skarner. Need I say more? :D
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On November 24 2013 12:50 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 12:39 Ryuu314 wrote:On November 24 2013 11:06 TheLink wrote:So in other words all our problems stem from Junglers refusing to accept they're a fellow bitch role and wanting to be full carries. I can't speak for everyone but personally I just have an issue with the fact that junglers went from 4th position to 5th position or negligible. Not to mention that Riot stated that they were gonna buff junglers, but the patch just feels like an overall nerf. In other words, the outcome was the opposite of Riot's stated goal, which sucks. Then again, it's not the first time they've done that. I don't feel like the patch nerfs jungler. You may feel it that way because relic shield is op and create the situation 2-1-2 vs 1-1-2 which is clearly superior for 2-1-2. However, if you think about it, going jungling still gives you better xp for you and your solo lane, and after you get golem spirit, it's like having a 8gp10 item on top of the monster bounty. When relic shields got nerfed down, we'll see junglers coming back i guess.
If 2-1-2 meta became dominant I'd expect 1-2-1 with jungler to start to pop up
this is not a prediction just a hunch
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On November 24 2013 13:04 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 12:50 canikizu wrote:On November 24 2013 12:39 Ryuu314 wrote:On November 24 2013 11:06 TheLink wrote:So in other words all our problems stem from Junglers refusing to accept they're a fellow bitch role and wanting to be full carries. I can't speak for everyone but personally I just have an issue with the fact that junglers went from 4th position to 5th position or negligible. Not to mention that Riot stated that they were gonna buff junglers, but the patch just feels like an overall nerf. In other words, the outcome was the opposite of Riot's stated goal, which sucks. Then again, it's not the first time they've done that. I don't feel like the patch nerfs jungler. You may feel it that way because relic shield is op and create the situation 2-1-2 vs 1-1-2 which is clearly superior for 2-1-2. However, if you think about it, going jungling still gives you better xp for you and your solo lane, and after you get golem spirit, it's like having a 8gp10 item on top of the monster bounty. When relic shields got nerfed down, we'll see junglers coming back i guess. If 2-1-2 meta became dominant I'd expect 1-2-1 with jungler to start to pop up this is not a prediction just a hunch
What is the draw of 1-2-1 against 2-1-2 exactly?
I dont play any high level 5's play, that just seems... strange to me. I dont see the inherent advantage.
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EPT
