Doesn't that just mean that the players will be concentrating on solo queue instead of actually important stuff like scrims and 5v5 ranked? It will also make the players just play to win(comfort champions etc) instead of playing to improve.
On December 11 2013 05:27 Shikyo wrote: I don't get the challenger requirement by CLG.
Doesn't that just mean that the players will be concentrating on solo queue instead of actually important stuff like scrims and 5v5 ranked? It will also make the players just play to win(comfort champions etc) instead of playing to improve.
As I said, if it takes more than just their free time to actually maintain Challenger on NA solo queue, the team has no future in international play anyway. So if that's their aim, it's a reasonable cutoff.
On December 11 2013 04:50 turdburgler wrote: if hotshott wants to see more talent developed on NA why doesnt he (one of the few people with the funds and set up) do something about it? CLG pro-amm league, CLG B team, CLG vs the world of baddies.
hes sitting on his piles of cash crying.
Because that would be like flushing money down the toilet basically for an abstract gain that another team could just as easily reap the benefits of if the goals were ever achieved.
People on TL need more business classes. Well, not classes, because they are kinda worthless, more just business acumen.
it doesnt matter if it makes business sense or not. even supposing for a second it was a sure fire failure money-wise, that means hotshot is complaining that people arent dumping money in to a situation where he knows it will go to waste.
we can get in to sociological arguments all night long, but we cant change america. the only thing that ESPORTS can do to make NA less shit is to spend money on it, and so either you have to believe there are viable business opportunities, in which case hotshot himself is the prime candidate to do something about it, or you believe its a waste of businesses time, in which case you think hotshot is knowingly just making a whine about nothing in a sad attempt to stay relevant after retirement.
or i mean i guess you could just get sarcastic about your belief in knowing more about business than other randoms on the internet.
I mean, your plan didn't even make sense. He could actually do what you are talking about, in China and get takers. But in California everything is incredibly expensive. Maintaining a CLG B team would cost tens of thousands of dollars a month, easily.
On December 11 2013 04:50 turdburgler wrote: if hotshott wants to see more talent developed on NA why doesnt he (one of the few people with the funds and set up) do something about it? CLG pro-amm league, CLG B team, CLG vs the world of baddies.
hes sitting on his piles of cash crying.
Because that would be like flushing money down the toilet basically for an abstract gain that another team could just as easily reap the benefits of if the goals were ever achieved.
People on TL need more business classes. Well, not classes, because they are kinda worthless, more just business acumen.
it doesnt matter if it makes business sense or not. even supposing for a second it was a sure fire failure money-wise, that means hotshot is complaining that people arent dumping money in to a situation where he knows it will go to waste.
we can get in to sociological arguments all night long, but we cant change america. the only thing that ESPORTS can do to make NA less shit is to spend money on it, and so either you have to believe there are viable business opportunities, in which case hotshot himself is the prime candidate to do something about it, or you believe its a waste of businesses time, in which case you think hotshot is knowingly just making a whine about nothing in a sad attempt to stay relevant after retirement.
or i mean i guess you could just get sarcastic about your belief in knowing more about business than other randoms on the internet.
I mean, your plan didn't even make sense. He could actually do what you are talking about, in China and get takers. But in California everything is incredibly expensive. Maintaining a CLG B team would cost tens of thousands of dollars a month, easily.
i didnt realise throwing out a few completely random suggestions constituted a plan. if you are looking for someone to invest in the NA scene, in any manor or form, and you need someone with money, experience, ESPORTS knowledge and all thats, the only names that pop up are the same big orgs like mlg or eg or whatever, and within lol specifically regi and hotshot. and all of them over the last 2-3 years, or longer in respect to eg and mlg have shown a complete lack of fucks to give about building real infrastructure.
and hotshot knows that. so hes sitting there crying out that the NA scene still sucks, but he knows the only people capable of changing anything already dont want to.
On December 11 2013 04:08 NotYango wrote: It's exponentially harder to find players that are popular, talented, and have a good competitive mindset than it is to find players who just have the latter two. The fact that there exist a handful of players who have all 3 qualities means absolutely nothing because there aren't enough such players to form a large enough number of viable competitive teams so long as sponsors care about popularity and stream views.
It's also just easier to find players that are popular and make money off of them streaming.
Not really though tbh. Look at bjergsen, his streams maybe got like 10k views before joining TSM. Now he regularly hits 30k np, was hitting 70k when he first joined. Did he all of a sudden become more entertaining? Nope. He joined TSM. Why can't this just be the case? Where TSM label is the part that makes him insanely popular, and then skill carrys over to the team?
Your best example of an unpopular player is a known EU LCS player with 10k stream viewers? That's not unpopular at all, lmao.
When's the last time that an NA pro team developed a player who hasn't been bouncing around the amateur scene for fucking forever. Never. No NA pro team would take that leap of faith that's necessary to develop fresh talent because that's not where the money is on NA. Whereas fresh-scouted talent appears all the time in Korea and China.
On December 11 2013 05:27 Shikyo wrote: I don't get the challenger requirement by CLG.
Doesn't that just mean that the players will be concentrating on solo queue instead of actually important stuff like scrims and 5v5 ranked? It will also make the players just play to win(comfort champions etc) instead of playing to improve.
You make it sound like it's hard requirement for the current CLG lineup. Everyone on that team is top 250 material, ezpz. Aphro and DL just duo queue a couple games a week. Link already top 250 material ezpz. Dunno about Dexter, and Nien can just play ADC in solo queue.
On December 11 2013 04:08 NotYango wrote: It's exponentially harder to find players that are popular, talented, and have a good competitive mindset than it is to find players who just have the latter two. The fact that there exist a handful of players who have all 3 qualities means absolutely nothing because there aren't enough such players to form a large enough number of viable competitive teams so long as sponsors care about popularity and stream views.
It's also just easier to find players that are popular and make money off of them streaming.
Not really though tbh. Look at bjergsen, his streams maybe got like 10k views before joining TSM. Now he regularly hits 30k np, was hitting 70k when he first joined. Did he all of a sudden become more entertaining? Nope. He joined TSM. Why can't this just be the case? Where TSM label is the part that makes him insanely popular, and then skill carrys over to the team?
Your best example of an unpopular player is a known EU LCS player with 10k stream viewers? That's not unpopular at all, lmao.
When's the last time that an NA pro team developed a player who hasn't been bouncing around the amateur scene for fucking forever. Never. No NA pro team would take that leap of faith that's necessary to develop fresh talent. Whereas fresh-scouted talent appears all the time in Korea and China.
You make sound as if old dogs can't learn new tricks. the problem isn't that current players are bad, the problem is there isn't an environment for current players to thrive. I'd say a lot of current line up have a lot of *incoming CLG buzzword* "potential" to grow and become better. Also, Coast is a full team of nobodies that came out and rocked NA scene, sure they didn't get picked up by established team, but they came on the scene out of nowhere, and has stayed relevant to NA scene since they first appeared.
On December 11 2013 05:27 Shikyo wrote: I don't get the challenger requirement by CLG.
Doesn't that just mean that the players will be concentrating on solo queue instead of actually important stuff like scrims and 5v5 ranked? It will also make the players just play to win(comfort champions etc) instead of playing to improve.
You make it sound like it's hard requirement for the current CLG lineup. Everyone on that team is top 250 material, ezpz. Aphro and DL just duo queue a couple games a week. Link already top 250 material ezpz. Dunno about Dexter, and Nien can just play ADC in solo queue.
That would probably be hilariously counter-productive to what hotshot wants, unless you want loco support 2.0 with nien. Dexter shouldn't have much trouble making top 250 in NA.
On December 11 2013 05:27 Shikyo wrote: I don't get the challenger requirement by CLG.
Doesn't that just mean that the players will be concentrating on solo queue instead of actually important stuff like scrims and 5v5 ranked? It will also make the players just play to win(comfort champions etc) instead of playing to improve.
You make it sound like it's hard requirement for the current CLG lineup. Everyone on that team is top 250 material, ezpz. Aphro and DL just duo queue a couple games a week. Link already top 250 material ezpz. Dunno about Dexter, and Nien can just play ADC in solo queue.
That would probably be hilariously counter-productive to what hotshot wants, unless you want loco support 2.0 with nien. Dexter shouldn't have much trouble making top 250 in NA.
I dunno how good Nien is in top lane solo queue, not sure if top250 material >.< so if he has tough time, probably has to play ADC or something, lol.
On December 11 2013 04:50 turdburgler wrote: if hotshott wants to see more talent developed on NA why doesnt he (one of the few people with the funds and set up) do something about it? CLG pro-amm league, CLG B team, CLG vs the world of baddies.
hes sitting on his piles of cash crying.
Because that would be like flushing money down the toilet basically for an abstract gain that another team could just as easily reap the benefits of if the goals were ever achieved.
People on TL need more business classes. Well, not classes, because they are kinda worthless, more just business acumen.
it doesnt matter if it makes business sense or not. even supposing for a second it was a sure fire failure money-wise, that means hotshot is complaining that people arent dumping money in to a situation where he knows it will go to waste.
we can get in to sociological arguments all night long, but we cant change america. the only thing that ESPORTS can do to make NA less shit is to spend money on it, and so either you have to believe there are viable business opportunities, in which case hotshot himself is the prime candidate to do something about it, or you believe its a waste of businesses time, in which case you think hotshot is knowingly just making a whine about nothing in a sad attempt to stay relevant after retirement.
or i mean i guess you could just get sarcastic about your belief in knowing more about business than other randoms on the internet.
I mean, your plan didn't even make sense. He could actually do what you are talking about, in China and get takers. But in California everything is incredibly expensive. Maintaining a CLG B team would cost tens of thousands of dollars a month, easily.
Why do you have to pay the B team?
Even if you don't, you have to pay for housing/internet/food/travel/etc.
On December 11 2013 04:08 NotYango wrote: It's exponentially harder to find players that are popular, talented, and have a good competitive mindset than it is to find players who just have the latter two. The fact that there exist a handful of players who have all 3 qualities means absolutely nothing because there aren't enough such players to form a large enough number of viable competitive teams so long as sponsors care about popularity and stream views.
It's also just easier to find players that are popular and make money off of them streaming.
Not really though tbh. Look at bjergsen, his streams maybe got like 10k views before joining TSM. Now he regularly hits 30k np, was hitting 70k when he first joined. Did he all of a sudden become more entertaining? Nope. He joined TSM. Why can't this just be the case? Where TSM label is the part that makes him insanely popular, and then skill carrys over to the team?
Your best example of an unpopular player is a known EU LCS player with 10k stream viewers? That's not unpopular at all, lmao.
When's the last time that an NA pro team developed a player who hasn't been bouncing around the amateur scene for fucking forever. Never. No NA pro team would take that leap of faith that's necessary to develop fresh talent because that's not where the money is on NA. Whereas fresh-scouted talent appears all the time in Korea and China.
i believe they have a chronic misunderstanding of how to foster the talent. they could just step by step follow the blueprint made by the kespa teams but they dont want to.
On December 11 2013 04:50 turdburgler wrote: if hotshott wants to see more talent developed on NA why doesnt he (one of the few people with the funds and set up) do something about it? CLG pro-amm league, CLG B team, CLG vs the world of baddies.
hes sitting on his piles of cash crying.
Because that would be like flushing money down the toilet basically for an abstract gain that another team could just as easily reap the benefits of if the goals were ever achieved.
People on TL need more business classes. Well, not classes, because they are kinda worthless, more just business acumen.
it doesnt matter if it makes business sense or not. even supposing for a second it was a sure fire failure money-wise, that means hotshot is complaining that people arent dumping money in to a situation where he knows it will go to waste.
we can get in to sociological arguments all night long, but we cant change america. the only thing that ESPORTS can do to make NA less shit is to spend money on it, and so either you have to believe there are viable business opportunities, in which case hotshot himself is the prime candidate to do something about it, or you believe its a waste of businesses time, in which case you think hotshot is knowingly just making a whine about nothing in a sad attempt to stay relevant after retirement.
or i mean i guess you could just get sarcastic about your belief in knowing more about business than other randoms on the internet.
I mean, your plan didn't even make sense. He could actually do what you are talking about, in China and get takers. But in California everything is incredibly expensive. Maintaining a CLG B team would cost tens of thousands of dollars a month, easily.
Why do you have to pay the B team?
Even if you don't, you have to pay for housing/internet/food/travel/etc.
they already have the house and the internet. and if the orgs all agreed to an online cup for b teamers to play in against each other using ad revenue to pay a small prize pool for incentive they dont need to travel them to get them exposure.
which just leaves food, which i think is a bill that they could manage. even if they needed to buy a bigger house and downsize the romes to korean standard thats hardly a huge increase in monthly outgoings.
On December 11 2013 05:34 wei2coolman wrote: the problem isn't that current players are bad, the problem is there isn't an environment for current players to thrive.
The problem is that there are a few good players in the scene stuck on shit teams because those organizations refuse to cut the chaff in favor of fresh talent.
On December 11 2013 05:34 wei2coolman wrote: Also, Coast is a full team of nobodies that came out and rocked NA scene, sure they didn't get picked up by established team, but they came on the scene out of nowhere, and has stayed relevant to NA scene since they first appeared.
Coast is not nobodies. That lineup is exactly what I was talking about with players who've been bouncing around amateur play since like Season 2.
On December 11 2013 05:34 wei2coolman wrote: Also, Coast is a full team of nobodies that came out and rocked NA scene, sure they didn't get picked up by established team, but they came on the scene out of nowhere, and has stayed relevant to NA scene since they first appeared.
Coast is not nobodies. That lineup is exactly what I was talking about with players who've been bouncing around amateur play since like Season 2.
They've stayed relevant since they first entered the scene as monomaniac @ipl4, I wouldn't say they've been bouncing around amateur scene.
On December 11 2013 05:34 wei2coolman wrote: the problem isn't that current players are bad, the problem is there isn't an environment for current players to thrive.
The problem is that there are a few good players in the scene stuck on shit teams because those organizations refuse to cut the chaff in favor of fresh talent.
This is fair enough. Though this does seem to be changing, especially with the aggressive team roster changes we have been seeing. Teams are consolidating power players, while others are taking risks with amateur players.
@turdburgler. housing is not as simple as stuffing 5 more people in a house already occupied by tons of people and call it "housing".
You cited WT as one of those exceptional players with the chance to succeed. If TSM were a Korean or Chinese organization with one exceptional player held back by a shit team, they'd cut the rest of the roster and get 4 fresh players to build a team around him. But there's no chance in hell that TSM would ever do that. The best they can do is cut one player for already-developed EU LCS talent, which is pitiful.
On December 11 2013 04:08 NotYango wrote: It's exponentially harder to find players that are popular, talented, and have a good competitive mindset than it is to find players who just have the latter two. The fact that there exist a handful of players who have all 3 qualities means absolutely nothing because there aren't enough such players to form a large enough number of viable competitive teams so long as sponsors care about popularity and stream views.
It's also just easier to find players that are popular and make money off of them streaming.
Not really though tbh. Look at bjergsen, his streams maybe got like 10k views before joining TSM. Now he regularly hits 30k np, was hitting 70k when he first joined. Did he all of a sudden become more entertaining? Nope. He joined TSM. Why can't this just be the case? Where TSM label is the part that makes him insanely popular, and then skill carrys over to the team?
Your best example of an unpopular player is a known EU LCS player with 10k stream viewers? That's not unpopular at all, lmao.
When's the last time that an NA pro team developed a player who hasn't been bouncing around the amateur scene for fucking forever. Never. No NA pro team would take that leap of faith that's necessary to develop fresh talent because that's not where the money is on NA. Whereas fresh-scouted talent appears all the time in Korea and China.
i believe they have a chronic misunderstanding of how to foster the talent. they could just step by step follow the blueprint made by the kespa teams but they dont want to.
How do they already have house and internet? Does CLG really pay for a house that can hold 12 people comfortably for a 5 man team?
Quick, how do you guys jungle Quinn, for those who tried? It's on my smurf with low level people so it just needs to be viable. I don't feel like jungling Nunu or Maokai and they wouldn't let me use Shaco I think.
(Then again most of the time I have to play something close to full tank so I can facetank for them and/or initiate.)
On December 11 2013 05:52 Alaric wrote: Quick, how do you guys jungle Quinn, for those who tried? It's on my smurf with low level people so it just needs to be viable. I don't feel like jungling Nunu or Maokai and they wouldn't let me use Shaco I think.
(Then again most of the time I have to play something close to full tank so I can facetank for them and/or initiate.)
better off playing support quinn, more money for ya.
On December 11 2013 04:08 NotYango wrote: It's exponentially harder to find players that are popular, talented, and have a good competitive mindset than it is to find players who just have the latter two. The fact that there exist a handful of players who have all 3 qualities means absolutely nothing because there aren't enough such players to form a large enough number of viable competitive teams so long as sponsors care about popularity and stream views.
It's also just easier to find players that are popular and make money off of them streaming.
Not really though tbh. Look at bjergsen, his streams maybe got like 10k views before joining TSM. Now he regularly hits 30k np, was hitting 70k when he first joined. Did he all of a sudden become more entertaining? Nope. He joined TSM. Why can't this just be the case? Where TSM label is the part that makes him insanely popular, and then skill carrys over to the team?
Your best example of an unpopular player is a known EU LCS player with 10k stream viewers? That's not unpopular at all, lmao.
When's the last time that an NA pro team developed a player who hasn't been bouncing around the amateur scene for fucking forever. Never. No NA pro team would take that leap of faith that's necessary to develop fresh talent because that's not where the money is on NA. Whereas fresh-scouted talent appears all the time in Korea and China.
i believe they have a chronic misunderstanding of how to foster the talent. they could just step by step follow the blueprint made by the kespa teams but they dont want to.
How do they already have house and internet? Does CLG really pay for a house that can hold 12 people comfortably for a 5 man team?
and 5 computers magically come out for free for their new team! and 5 desks, and 5 chairs, and 5 beds. BOOM! FREE!
On December 11 2013 05:27 Shikyo wrote: I don't get the challenger requirement by CLG.
Doesn't that just mean that the players will be concentrating on solo queue instead of actually important stuff like scrims and 5v5 ranked? It will also make the players just play to win(comfort champions etc) instead of playing to improve.
You make it sound like it's hard requirement for the current CLG lineup. Everyone on that team is top 250 material, ezpz. Aphro and DL just duo queue a couple games a week. Link already top 250 material ezpz. Dunno about Dexter, and Nien can just play ADC in solo queue.
On December 11 2013 04:08 NotYango wrote: It's exponentially harder to find players that are popular, talented, and have a good competitive mindset than it is to find players who just have the latter two. The fact that there exist a handful of players who have all 3 qualities means absolutely nothing because there aren't enough such players to form a large enough number of viable competitive teams so long as sponsors care about popularity and stream views.
It's also just easier to find players that are popular and make money off of them streaming.
Not really though tbh. Look at bjergsen, his streams maybe got like 10k views before joining TSM. Now he regularly hits 30k np, was hitting 70k when he first joined. Did he all of a sudden become more entertaining? Nope. He joined TSM. Why can't this just be the case? Where TSM label is the part that makes him insanely popular, and then skill carrys over to the team?
Your best example of an unpopular player is a known EU LCS player with 10k stream viewers? That's not unpopular at all, lmao.
When's the last time that an NA pro team developed a player who hasn't been bouncing around the amateur scene for fucking forever. Never. No NA pro team would take that leap of faith that's necessary to develop fresh talent. Whereas fresh-scouted talent appears all the time in Korea and China.
You make sound as if old dogs can't learn new tricks. the problem isn't that current players are bad, the problem is there isn't an environment for current players to thrive. I'd say a lot of current line up have a lot of *incoming CLG buzzword* "potential" to grow and become better. Also, Coast is a full team of nobodies that came out and rocked NA scene, sure they didn't get picked up by established team, but they came on the scene out of nowhere, and has stayed relevant to NA scene since they first appeared.
I don't think it's an issue of whether they're top 250 in skill.
It's more that can they maintain challenger with 10 hours a week vs someone spending 70?
When sponsors/teams are willing to cut players due to poor performance without worrying about said player's popularity or "personality" is when we get a better NA scene. Korean sponsors have no problem cutting off the deadweight and replace them with amateurs. Even established giants like CJ replaced their roster with new players I've never heard of.
EPT
