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[Patch 3.14] PreSeason 4 General Discussion - Page 18

Forum Index > LoL General
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Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35165 Posts
November 21 2013 21:53 GMT
#341
On November 22 2013 06:10 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 06:01 Gahlo wrote:
On November 22 2013 05:59 zer0das wrote:
Man, I hate trinkets. I know oracles was too good, but now there's a billion and a half wards 15 minutes in, and you can't even sweep like half of them, without massive team coordination. I feel so neutered as a support. What do I do if my team sucks? Build deathcap and pray? Ugh.

Build deathcap and kill bitches.

Voidstaff is better. Unless you need the waveclear.

I know, I was mirroring Zer0.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
November 21 2013 22:03 GMT
#342
On November 22 2013 06:51 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Here's my one question that probably won't be able to get a sufficient answer until way later in the patch but here we go.

Do people feel like they've EARNED the gold they have?

OR, from the other side

Do you feel like you're behind ENOUGH when you are losing? Or do you still have a fuckton of gold for items? (I realize that in this case no matter how much you have the enemies will have more, but still curious)

I don't have any feedback, but I will critique the value of this statistic.

Just after you start getting gold, you may not feel like you've earned the stat, but if the game were always like this, where supports had as much gold as everyone else, people might not feel that way. It's the same with all of Riot's changes.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
November 21 2013 22:05 GMT
#343
On November 22 2013 07:03 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 06:51 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Here's my one question that probably won't be able to get a sufficient answer until way later in the patch but here we go.

Do people feel like they've EARNED the gold they have?

OR, from the other side

Do you feel like you're behind ENOUGH when you are losing? Or do you still have a fuckton of gold for items? (I realize that in this case no matter how much you have the enemies will have more, but still curious)

I don't have any feedback, but I will critique the value of this statistic.

Just after you start getting gold, you may not feel like you've earned the stat, but if the game were always like this, where supports had as much gold as everyone else, people might not feel that way. It's the same with all of Riot's changes.


Yeah I understand... I just feel a bit like items should be earned if you know what I mean. But it's probably a silly thought.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
November 21 2013 22:25 GMT
#344
Yay Diamond Bo5 in team ! With Scip, Teuto, Nafta, and EquilasH :D
http://www.twitch.tv/mr_tolkien
The legend of Darien lives on
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
November 21 2013 22:26 GMT
#345
Guys Lee Sin is unviable now. Only 3 wards per player? gg, looks like we're never seeing Lee Sin in competitive play again
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-21 22:40:42
November 21 2013 22:26 GMT
#346
Oh so it's Nafta... the more you learn.

Also after spectating these Nasus games, even though the model and particles are higher quality and all, I actually prefer Nasus' original model. His pink-ish look (esp. for his icons) is pretty meh and uninspiring, Siphoning Strike's sound effect isn't there anymore, and the way he walks is even more disjointed and ridiculous than the original. Pretty much everything was better before, from VO to SFX to particles.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
V0ren
Profile Joined August 2011
Netherlands233 Posts
November 21 2013 22:51 GMT
#347
Not sure if I like the new support gold items, got the feeling only the tanking one is really worth picking up so far. Haven't really played around with the spellthief one yet tho.

Going full on tank Leona is hilarious now though, so tanky.

On November 22 2013 07:26 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Guys Lee Sin is unviable now. Only 3 wards per player? gg, looks like we're never seeing Lee Sin in competitive play again

older wards just disappear, he's still a pretty good pick.

onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
November 21 2013 22:56 GMT
#348
Lee Sin always competitive. I remember when Shake was complaining about his last round of nerfs hue.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
November 21 2013 23:01 GMT
#349
no you don't understand people will flame him if he uses too many wards
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
November 21 2013 23:01 GMT
#350
Doesn't he gets even more free wards now, huge buff
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
November 21 2013 23:08 GMT
#351
What trinkets are the best to get for each role? I'm guessing for Mid, ADC, and Top lane its the free ward one. Support, the vision revealing one or clairvoyance? Jungle, free ward or vision revealing as well
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
November 21 2013 23:10 GMT
#352
wriggles sucks

1800 gold for terrible stats. the gold generation isn't good either. played a game where I literally ignored my team for 25 minutes and farmed jungle as mundo. wriggles only gave 800~900 bonus gold total. Better off getting a few dblades or w/e and ganking.
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
November 21 2013 23:12 GMT
#353
On November 22 2013 08:01 Kupon3ss wrote:
Doesn't he gets even more free wards now, huge buff


fuck you're right

more lee sin banning
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
November 21 2013 23:13 GMT
#354
On November 22 2013 08:10 Ryuu314 wrote:
ganking.

You should try explaining that concept to Scip hue hue hue.
The legend of Darien lives on
imBLIND
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2626 Posts
November 21 2013 23:13 GMT
#355
Is the wriggles ward seperate from the total amount of wards a player can have or no?
im deaf
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
November 21 2013 23:17 GMT
#356
On November 22 2013 08:13 imBLIND wrote:
Is the wriggles ward seperate from the total amount of wards a player can have or no?


No. Nor are the free trinket wards.
Freeeeeeedom
Yttrasil
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden651 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-21 23:45:29
November 21 2013 23:19 GMT
#357
Okay, jungle is dead! You heard it here... No seriously, there is no reason at all not to use Relics shield/Targon's Brace on your jungler AND mid. Clear red or blue let other laners take the other one, start Relics shield. Run back after you killed red or blue. Go mid 24/7 clear wraits every 40ish seconds and join mid and get insane amounts of gold and deny the enemy or push him down. You earn more gold then the opponent jungler, you can 2v1 a lane and autowin it.

I suggest something like Jungle taric with support runes and masteries, for complete mid lane dominance.

Suggest TP on mid laner as a way to counteract ganks, or gank lanes.

If this doesn't turn out to be the new meta, if the item is not changed I'll be highly surprised!

Edit: Or fiddle, even better!
Meh
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
November 21 2013 23:22 GMT
#358
On November 22 2013 05:48 Slayer91 wrote:
Warmogs is a 2630 best regen item in a game, and being less than 66% is a fair price to match it for 3 mastery points lol
like you dont need regen when you're full hp, so why is it hampered?
and the 10% regen below 25%, like, if you're low you usually get ignite bursted anyway, would prefer the resists all game.

The shield thing is meh as well, at best it counts as 50 hp, thats if nobody ever harasses you in lane, and 50 in teamfights also if you dont get harassed (or you get harassed so much you cant regen)

You are probably right, though there are certainly situational benefits to both masteries.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-21 23:35:37
November 21 2013 23:24 GMT
#359
Some thoughts on the supports:

I'm doing analysis on end game builds with 650 AP. This is because Supports finally have a chance to reach 650 AP.
500 from runes, masteries, buffs, and items (120 deathcap, 120 deathfire grasp, 60 chalice, 70 void staff, 120 zhonyas, etc. When you factor in 5 AP items you come close to 500 AP)
150 from deathfire's passive.

I want to know which supports might be theoretically stronger than normal in a late game scenario post patch.

  • Janna got a buttload of early game nerfs for while she has no AP. Her slows slow less and her shields give less damage etc..
  • But her Ult has a 1.4 AP ratio.
  • With 650 AP her ult heals for 600+1.4*650=1510 life in an AoE.
  • I can see why Riot knee jerk nerfed her as soon as she saw competitive play, but still think they should have waited
  • For Comparison Lulu would give on guy 600+.5*650=925 life
  • Soraka for 350+.55*650=708 life

    Speaking of, Janna rhymes with Banana
  • Soraka
  • At 40% cdr, Soraka's Q (meteors) has a 1.5 second cooldown
  • At 40% cdr Soraka's W (heal) has a 12 second cooldown
  • Soraka's passive allows her to reduce her W's cooldown by 10% of the post cdr cooldown(1.2 seconds) for every cast of Q on an enemy champion
  • So you've got Xin again where CDR stacks on a passive
  • Raka's always been seen as a decent champ to have AP on because she can spam more Q's and her Q's do decent damage. I don't think that has changed much.
  • So right after casting W, you cast Q and go down to 10.8 seconds.
  • Now every 1.5 seconds later you can cast Q again to reduce W's cooldown by 1.2 seconds
  • That means that after 4 more casts of Q, you will reduce W's cooldown to 0 seconds (10.8/(1.2+1.5))=4
  • So W is on a potential 6 second cooldown and it can heal for up to 270+.35*650=498 heal every 6 seconds. Those nidalee nerfs don't seem all that necessary all of a sudden

    She's not the only support who has a new cooldown interaction.
  • Taric does too.
  • At max CDR Taric's Q,W,E have a 8.4,6,8.4 second cooldown
  • I imagine your combo to be something like E, auto, R, auto, W, auto, Q, auto
  • Maybe you won't be able to auto that much or you might want to use R last when you have to wait for a cooldown. I use it second to boost the damage of the other spells.
  • After that combo this is the state of your spells
  • Q 6.4 seconds cd
  • W 2 second
  • E .4 s
    You can E and then auto
  • Q 4.4 seconds
  • W 0 seconds
  • E 6.4 seconds
    W and then auto
  • Q 2.4 seconds
  • W 4 seconds
  • E 4.4 seconds
    100% effective cdr Taric ad infinitum. Note that I would still recommend a tanky build on Taric. You don't need 650 AP on Taric, and when I tried bruiser jungle Taric in the past, I found he wasn't able to utilize his abilities the way he wanted to all the time.

  • Sona
  • Boring. Seems nerfed. Don't care.
  • I guess her W can reduce damage by 33% for 3 seconds now instead of 20%.

  • Leona
  • 20% bonus armor/mr on shield. Cool

    Lulu
  • Lance(Q) can get to 100% minimum slow at 750 ap.
  • 750 is hard to reach and it starts at 80% slow and only lasts for 2 seconds
  • A 2 second AoE "snare" is interesting on a 7*.6 second cooldown, but I wouldn't call it OP just yet
  • The movement speed buff can get pretty high. At 650 ap you get to +95% movespeed for 5 seconds
  • It won't save your carry every time, but I'm sure your allies will thank you for letting them Zoom zoom
  • She seems ok

    Nami
  • I mainly want to focus on fish's W interaction
  • It says that her W bounce now gains effect based on AP
  • It used to lose 15% of its power on every bounce.
  • However at 650 AP you can reduce that 15% deduction by 650/10*.75 or 48.75%
  • So I think this means you can get to -.15+.4875=33.75% power increase on every bounce
  • The math takes a few steps, but what it works out to is that the spell has overall 1.6x more power than it did with 0ap, before you even factor in the normal AP scaling.
  • This is big.
  • If you heal first, (at 650 ap) you will heal your target for 380, damage an enemy for 742, and then heal another ally for 680 if the spell bounces the maximum of two times
    380+742+680=1802
  • If you damage first, (at 650 ap) you will damage your target for 555, heal an ally for 508, and damage an enemy for 993.
  • 555+508+903=2056
  • I'm making an assumption here and I'm not sure if Nami's W can amplify at all


Anyways, I know this is a lot of theorycraft. Most of it is too theoretical, but I hope someone can make some use out of it.
I know I can't predict everything with math. Next week all the pros will be on support Ashe or something.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
November 21 2013 23:25 GMT
#360
i am having tarics destroy everything in my games wtf
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
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