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On November 22 2013 05:25 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 04:16 Slayer91 wrote:
second wind is bad
perserverence is better than warmogs passive
get tenacious and perserverence every game
why would you think tenacious is a hefty investment?
3 points for 5 armour/mr
4 points for 4+2 with ONE champ
even in a 1v1 its worth Perserverence is hampered in that it's based on missing health, not max health, so even with 3 points invested you need to be at 2/3rds hp to benefit from it more than the Warmogs passive, and it's comparatively weakish early game (better than the Recovery mastery [2 points for +2hp/5], but that's first tier). It's pretty dope and werth for large HP pools as the game progresses (Shen, Renekton, Shy), but it does lock out several one point wonders (locking out two of either Evasive/Reinforced Armor, Oppression, or Swiftness). Tenacious is hefty due to how deep it's in the defense tree, and investing all 4 points means forgoing both the shield thingy (+50 hp per fountain visit is interesting in the early game) and Second Wind; 10% extra healing below 25% hp is minor yes (half an SV passive), but is it better than 1-5 armor or .5-2.5 mr, which would be the marginal opportunity cost? The Legendary Guardian tenacity is a no-brainer unless they're skimping on CC. Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 05:18 Yuljan wrote:
Wow pretty bad changes. Doubt ill be coming back to LoL... No Comebacks after inhi down? Are they even playing the game? Err, what? They just increased the comeback potential dramatically from a downed inhib. Previously, it pushed ALL the waves, now it just pushes the waves in the downed inhib's lane. Former was oppressive, and a downed inhib generally guaranteed a loss (esp. in competitive). Now it's less map control from one objective. While I theoretically you can no longer farm all the waves, realistically that's a terrible means of comeback as 1) you've lost all map control outside your base so the enemy can get free objectives, and 2) the enemy has an easy time pushing you out. The map control loss from a downed inhib was infinitely more crippling then the modest extra farm you got from their minions pushing the waves.
Warmogs is a 2630 best regen item in a game, and being less than 66% is a fair price to match it for 3 mastery points lol
like you dont need regen when you're full hp, so why is it hampered?
and the 10% regen below 25%, like, if you're low you usually get ignite bursted anyway, would prefer the resists all game.
The shield thing is meh as well, at best it counts as 50 hp, thats if nobody ever harasses you in lane, and 50 in teamfights also if you dont get harassed (or you get harassed so much you cant regen)
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United States15536 Posts
On November 22 2013 05:48 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 05:25 Lord Tolkien wrote:On November 22 2013 04:16 Slayer91 wrote:
second wind is bad
perserverence is better than warmogs passive
get tenacious and perserverence every game
why would you think tenacious is a hefty investment?
3 points for 5 armour/mr
4 points for 4+2 with ONE champ
even in a 1v1 its worth Perserverence is hampered in that it's based on missing health, not max health, so even with 3 points invested you need to be at 2/3rds hp to benefit from it more than the Warmogs passive, and it's comparatively weakish early game (better than the Recovery mastery [2 points for +2hp/5], but that's first tier). It's pretty dope and werth for large HP pools as the game progresses (Shen, Renekton, Shy), but it does lock out several one point wonders (locking out two of either Evasive/Reinforced Armor, Oppression, or Swiftness). Tenacious is hefty due to how deep it's in the defense tree, and investing all 4 points means forgoing both the shield thingy (+50 hp per fountain visit is interesting in the early game) and Second Wind; 10% extra healing below 25% hp is minor yes (half an SV passive), but is it better than 1-5 armor or .5-2.5 mr, which would be the marginal opportunity cost? The Legendary Guardian tenacity is a no-brainer unless they're skimping on CC. On November 22 2013 05:18 Yuljan wrote:
Wow pretty bad changes. Doubt ill be coming back to LoL... No Comebacks after inhi down? Are they even playing the game? Err, what? They just increased the comeback potential dramatically from a downed inhib. Previously, it pushed ALL the waves, now it just pushes the waves in the downed inhib's lane. Former was oppressive, and a downed inhib generally guaranteed a loss (esp. in competitive). Now it's less map control from one objective. While I theoretically you can no longer farm all the waves, realistically that's a terrible means of comeback as 1) you've lost all map control outside your base so the enemy can get free objectives, and 2) the enemy has an easy time pushing you out. The map control loss from a downed inhib was infinitely more crippling then the modest extra farm you got from their minions pushing the waves. Warmogs is a 2630 best regen item in a game, and being less than 66% is a fair price to match it for 3 mastery points lol like you dont need regen when you're full hp, so why is it hampered? and the 10% regen below 25%, like, if you're low you usually get ignite bursted anyway, would prefer the resists all game. The shield thing is meh as well, at best it counts as 50 hp, thats if nobody ever harasses you in lane, and 50 in teamfights also if you dont get harassed (or you get harassed so much you cant regen)
I can only imagine that the shield one is for weak junglers or terrible early lane matchups. I guess if you plan to be behind early so you can be godlike late it MIGHT be worthwhile. Still seems weak.
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On November 22 2013 05:33 Ghost-z wrote:
Just had an intriguing thought. Does all this free gold open up the option for a tri-lane?
Maybe take a Nunu jungle and after his first back pick up a support gold item and run to his duo lane for the first tower.
The new jungle and utility mastery could help alleviate the XP loss. I don't know how XP works in a tri lane?
cant really say anything is likely when the game is changed so much, give it like 1-2 months for things to settle down
who knows maybe some pro will figure out something new but cant shoot down anything right now unless its like super ridiculous to do
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Man, I hate trinkets. I know oracles was too good, but now there's a billion and a half wards 15 minutes in, and you can't even sweep like half of them, without massive team coordination. I feel so neutered as a support. What do I do if my team sucks? Build deathcap and pray? Ugh.
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On November 22 2013 05:59 zer0das wrote:
Man, I hate trinkets. I know oracles was too good, but now there's a billion and a half wards 15 minutes in, and you can't even sweep like half of them, without massive team coordination. I feel so neutered as a support. What do I do if my team sucks? Build deathcap and pray? Ugh.
Build deathcap and kill bitches.
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On November 22 2013 05:03 cLutZ wrote:
They reverted a bunch of them, like Jax's base health reduction.
Are you sure? I quit playing Jax knowing that change was coming in. They might just implement it in a future patch and nerf empower's w then as well.
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On November 22 2013 06:02 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 05:03 cLutZ wrote:
They reverted a bunch of them, like Jax's base health reduction. Are you sure? I quit playing Jax knowing that change was coming in. They might just implement it in a future patch and nerf empower's w then as well.
They reverted it on the PBE and then didn't put it in the patch. If anything, they decided he isn't an issue atm.
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For what it's worth, I saw a jax whomp mr tolkien's riven at lvl 1 ^^
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On November 22 2013 06:01 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 05:59 zer0das wrote:
Man, I hate trinkets. I know oracles was too good, but now there's a billion and a half wards 15 minutes in, and you can't even sweep like half of them, without massive team coordination. I feel so neutered as a support. What do I do if my team sucks? Build deathcap and pray? Ugh. Build deathcap and kill bitches.
Voidstaff is better. Unless you need the waveclear.
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Damn support can only put down 4 wards, but nobody else buys wards because they haven't adapted to the changes yet so maps always dark lol
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On November 22 2013 05:59 zer0das wrote:
Man, I hate trinkets. I know oracles was too good, but now there's a billion and a half wards 15 minutes in, and you can't even sweep like half of them, without massive team coordination. I feel so neutered as a support. What do I do if my team sucks? Build deathcap and pray? Ugh.
The answer is pick up leblanc support, use the new support income to blow bitches up and carry for days.
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On November 22 2013 06:10 UnKooL wrote:
Damn support can only put down 4 wards, but nobody else buys wards because they haven't adapted to the changes yet so maps always dark lol
Yea, that's how I feel atm. I'm currently playing in high plat
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On November 22 2013 06:10 UnKooL wrote:
Damn support can only put down 4 wards, but nobody else buys wards because they haven't adapted to the changes yet so maps always dark lol
It's going to stay that way for a while.
Wriggles adc was a long meta. Still no one used it. :/
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I'm pretty sure that was part of Riot's plan: knowing how resistant to change the player base is, they could reasonably expect that such a change would reduce vision and they took it into account.
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On November 22 2013 06:02 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 05:03 cLutZ wrote:
They reverted a bunch of them, like Jax's base health reduction. Are you sure? I quit playing Jax knowing that change was coming in. They might just implement it in a future patch and nerf empower's w then as well.
They might, but Jax hasn't seemed exceptionally strong as of late.
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Well at first glance, with all the gold supports are gaining its seems they could even overtake junglers in overall gold gain..? The gold items for supports seems so much better then the ones for junglers, also with all lanes gaining free wards from the start of the game, Im worried about jungler role becoming the least "important" even after support lol. I know its too soon to tell and i know shit, the numbers could be changed etc. But do u guys think this possibility exists?
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On November 22 2013 06:41 Taktik wrote:
Well at first glance, with all the gold supports are gaining its seems they could even overtake junglers in overall gold gain..? The gold items for supports seems so much better then the ones for junglers, also with all lanes gaining free wards from the start of the game, Im worried about jungler role becoming the least "important" even after support lol. I know its too soon to tell and i know shit, the numbers could be changed etc. But do u guys think this possibility exists?
You don't get 3 minute wards.A lot of junglers can gank warded lanes as well so not even close.
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Ok so after having played like 7 games today 2 things :
First i think riot did well with what they were trying to accomplish with support income. It's on par with everybody but also because of the maximum wards per player, they can take ap/tank items. It feels good to have an impact on the game and not just by the vision.
But as a result, previously discussed, even though some lane have a mini ward in the laning phase, in the mid game and in the late game the map is completely dark, everybody are going to adapt big time, so much more comeback are happening because of that in my game and it's a bit problematic because everybody got to contribute and not one person 
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You either lack wards or potions if you start with the gold income item, so there's actually a good chance you'll have to back early or get ganked, especially if one of the enemy duo has the lense.
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United States15536 Posts
Here's my one question that probably won't be able to get a sufficient answer until way later in the patch but here we go.
Do people feel like they've EARNED the gold they have?
OR, from the other side
Do you feel like you're behind ENOUGH when you are losing? Or do you still have a fuckton of gold for items? (I realize that in this case no matter how much you have the enemies will have more, but still curious)
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EPT
