EPT[Patch 3.14] PreSeason 4 General Discussion - Page 13
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
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DrunkenOne
United States302 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Lizard Spirit isn't worse than before actually, it's just that Conservation is much better than its own passive so it gets comparatively worse. But it didn't become bad with the patch. Certainly won't net as much gold though... | ||
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Zhiroo
Kosovo2724 Posts
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On November 22 2013 01:28 overt wrote: Yeah I forgot about this beast. Wouldn't Ancient Golem usually be better on both of them? Like if you jungle Kha or Zed you're going to build Elder Lizard over the other three options every single game. I feel like it's kinda rare that you'd build it on those two but I also don't play a ton of Vi/Olaf. Yes. I can understand your reasoning. You feel like Lizard golem is only good on assassin junglers. However the item description is quite clear cut. Lizard is meant to be aggressive. Vi or Olaf, or even J4 can be very aggressive. In later on, most of your gold will come from kill/assist, you barely get money from jungling anymore. If you hold Elder Lizard and go ham and score like 3 assist, you'll net an assist streak and 90 gold or something. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
elder lizard is stornger for ganking early but thats it | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
I guess my problem is paying 1300 to complete golem afterwards whereas going Lizard I'd just build a belt and complete my boots at this point, so I always feel a bit behind on my item build. On the other hand, with Conservation effectively acting as 6.7 gp10, you get a bit more gold... but then again 6.7 gp10 isn't that much gold either. On November 22 2013 01:41 Zhiroo wrote: Damn support Syndra is fun in this patch just gotta figure out a good build and not just build random items when I have 2k gold '-' Just build tear or Chalice if your gold income item isn't enough, then a DFG and show Riot why it's dumb as fuck to slaughter the support role champions and make the position swim in gold. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
That's just my reasoning though. I'm not an expert on the jungle. I don't see anything new in S4 that changes what made nearly everyone go Ancient Golem in S3. Kha/Zed don't get played competitively but in solo queue you saw them pick up Elder Lizard. Eve is pretty much the only S3 jungler I've seen in competitive play that goes Elder Lizard still. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On November 22 2013 01:42 Slayer91 wrote: elder lizard isnt that great though, you can go ancient golem and get brutalizer or hexdrinker and its usually just overall better elder lizard is stornger for ganking early but thats it Depending on jungler. Ancient golem opens up the option to early turret dive, which is just as good as early dmg from elderlizard. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On November 22 2013 01:44 Alaric wrote: I guess... I never got around to trying it much, but it really comes down to timing and having a jungle item. After spirit stone, it's 1300 gold for Lizard and 1337 for bruta, with lizard giving some more regen, 5 AD an dupgrading the Butcher passive. I guess my problem is paying 1300 to complete golem afterwards whereas going Lizard I'd just build a belt and complete my boots at this point, so I always feel a bit behind on my item build. On the other hand, with Conservation effectively acting as 6.7 gp10, you get a bit more gold... but then again 6.7 gp10 isn't that much gold either. Just build tear or Chalice if your gold income item isn't enough, then a DFG and show Riot why it's dumb as fuck to slaughter the support role champions and make the position swim in gold. brutalizer is still better though, also it converts to BC or GB which are both pretty good on her its just you want ancient golem first cause its so good and you kinda want hp early or you won't be tanky and hexdrinker is even better than brutalizer also brutaizer is 1337, elder lizard is 2k, you cant ignore the spirit stone cost, since ancient golem is the best item ever if you cost value it at 1300 | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On November 21 2013 23:16 Alaric wrote: So... About the gold income items... Actually Alaric, you can consume Relic Shield/Face charges without using autos, you just don't get the extra Execute damage. | ||
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Vlanitak
Norway3045 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On November 22 2013 01:50 wei2coolman wrote: Depending on jungler. Ancient golem opens up the option to early turret dive, which is just as good as early dmg from elderlizard. The big, big benefit of Ancient Golem compared to Elder Lizard/Spectral Wraith is that you can spend up to 80 seconds not jungling without losing income. You get 1 stack of Conservation per second and consume 40 stacks when killing a large/epic monster. It takes roughly 10 seconds to travel between camps and clear them, so you still get 10+ bonus gold when just chain clearing. Basically, you can fail ganks/waste time with Ancient Golem and not really lose out, whereas failing ganks or waiting around costs you with Elder Lizard and Spectral Wraith. | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On November 22 2013 01:58 Vlanitak wrote: dear god I have never been this rich ingame without doing anything... w-what do I do with all of it? I literally item maxed at 20min in a game as Janna, Im loving this Wow that's... scary. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
Definitely crowds out non scaling supports like blitz who don't really scale off items... | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
In both cases you gain about 10 gold on large monsters when farming jungle. Elder Lizard should clear faster based on the extra AD and true damage procs so it gets a slight edge in this case. Ganking for a kill/assist then going back to farming nets about the same 40 gold from passives. Ganking for no kill/assist leaves the Elder Lizard about 40 gold behind the Ancient Golem when you go back to farming. The only advantage of Elder Lizard is that the extra 30 AD and true damage slightly increases the success of a gank. Also any ganks that result in a double kill puts Elder Lizard ahead by 40 gold. I'd say it depends on the champion which item is better. | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
My experience is different. Played a 40 minute Janna game (with 4/4/17) and was at 5 items. All of them relatively cheap - no big ap items at all. | ||
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