EPT[Patch 3.14] PreSeason 4 General Discussion - Page 10
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On November 21 2013 22:21 Jek wrote: Uhm. Wouldn't the duolane both just start with the Relic Shield now? Super easy lasthitting, good sustain and a ton more gold for both of them. Wouldn't you just straight up die to a dblade start though? Besides, the adc doesn't actually gain any gold compared to only the support buying it, you'd just be giving your support some extra gold and a small heal at the cost of the lane presence you'd get from a d-blade or sword start. remember the relic only gives bonus gold to the person not last hitting it, as the adc would get the normal gold for the minion anyway he gains nothing from having the item. | ||
Don_Julio
2220 Posts
The adc doesn't even need to last-hit and can focus on preparing the minions to be last-hitted by the support and zoning the opponent. It's expensive though but supports might not need to spend all their money on wards in the early anymore. This won't happen in soloQ but it might be a possibility in professional play. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On November 21 2013 22:32 Don_Julio wrote: Isn't Relic Shield really strong if you want to push the lane really hard (eg 2v1 lanes)? The adc doesn't even need to last-hit and can focus on preparing the minions to be last-hitted by the support and zoning the opponent. It's expensive though but supports might not need to spend all their money on wards in the early anymore. This won't happen in soloQ but it might be a possibility in professional play. You can only use it on 1 minion per wave though, not sure how onehshotting a minion thats already under 200 hp helps push that much. It should be good for getting a faster level 2 though, as you should have two stacks of it up by the time you get into lane, so if you communicate with your adc you can just instagib the first minion or two of the second wave, and get a very quick lvl 2. | ||
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suicideyear
Ivory Coast3016 Posts
i mean if your opponent takes it you basically have it by doing 1.5% dmg back to them or whatever, but you also have mastery points to be used in something else i can't think of anything it's useful in alternatively: 3.14 eve, that shit cray | ||
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Don_Julio
2220 Posts
On November 21 2013 22:35 killerdog wrote: You can only use it on 1 minion per wave though, not sure how onehshotting a minion thats already under 200 hp helps push that much. It should be good for getting a faster level 2 though, as you should have two stacks of it up by the time you get into lane, so if you communicate with your adc you can just instagib the first minion or two of the second wave, and get a very quick lvl 2. Oh, I overread the charge thing. My bad. | ||
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OhTwoMise
United States164 Posts
I think she was actually pretty close to viable in tournament play as an answer to Zed/Fizz/Kassadin, although I obviously don't have much to back that up. Actual support players (as opposed to people stuck with a role they don't want) very rarely play her in solo queue because she's pretty bad at basically all of the things supports do to carry a solo queue game; vision control, playmaking ability, small-scale skirmishes, bailing out people who get caught, etc etc. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
You can't take an advantage, it's just forbidden. Why not start games at 20 minutes and give everybody 10k gold? | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On November 21 2013 22:37 suicideyear wrote: is there any benefit to taking double edge sword i mean if your opponent takes it you basically have it by doing 1.5% dmg back to them or whatever, but you also have mastery points to be used in something else i can't think of anything it's useful in alternatively: 3.14 eve, that shit cray If you're ever in a situation where you're hitting them and they aren't hitting you, then it's good. So if you have good peel as an adc, or if you're relying on oneshotting them in a combo, then it's worth it. Also I'd imagine it's totally worth it on "melee" champs like fizz, kassa and kata. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On November 21 2013 22:56 mr_tolkien wrote: I was waiting for the definitive patch note... And I can't say I'm happy with what they did. LoL just sounds like Farmville now. You can't take an advantage, it's just forbidden. Why not start games at 20 minutes and give everybody 10k gold? wat On November 21 2013 22:57 Sponkz wrote: Wtf you can and should still play her as a heal bot. The advantage comes from laning with an independent AD Carry like Ezreal, Corki or Caitlyn and just make them play the lane. If your ADC sucks, you're fucked. sorakas early game dps is higher than most with starcall especially with someone who can abuse the starcall stacks her heals are pretty terrible for trading because of the long ass cooldown janna just does it better you kinda want to all in with the armour buff or just play passive and use the sustain | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
you use the heal when you trade, you don't just use it like a heal, cus your adc is low. The armor buff is what makes it so gud | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
maybe by level 7 or something but that's already late in the lane by botlane standards and then yeah you have level 4 W and level 1 Q you obviously rely on it | ||
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kaos00
United States125 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
or ez cant hit his q because of creeps guise that mastery in defensive tree 3% of your missing hp, warmogs is 1% max hp so once you're below 66% hp its better than warmogs wtff it becomes better than garen passive below 33% hp | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
About the gold income items:+ Show Spoiler + - Claim looks underwhelming, but that may be due to my support pool. It's more like a Janna item, or maybe Zyra, as in champs who stay in the back and usually poke or use their cc to peel. On the other hand it wants you to hit stuff with autos too to get gold. Considering Janna's auto range, that's pretty meh. It's also unlikely to get much use later in the game. The active... I'd need to know its range. But for Fiddlesticks for example I'd rather have Twin Shadows or Talisman if the range is short because then I wouldn't be able to use it to get in Fear range when catching people. Assuming you use it on cd, it's 6/12/20 gp10. - Talisman looks like the better item : cheapest of the 3, higher mp5, a whole lot of CDR, most versatile active, and it has the most reliable gold generation passive, especially once people group up and start pushing. It lacks tankiness, but so does Claim, and if you can get to 25% CDR (or even 30%) between it and masteries, then you don't really have to itemise it anymore so you can concentrate on survivability (or damage if you're just important a mid laner). Assuming you're here to see every minion die, it's a bit above 4/10/10 gp10 (the bit comes from the siege minions). - Face looks situational, not because it's meh like Claim, but because it's harder to use and costs generally more. It gives a better mix of stats (HP and CDR), a strong active if you stack HP, but its gold generation, while easier to maximise thanks to the stacking mechanic, only works on autos meaning it gets harder to use for melee champs if the lane is pushing, and even harder to use once the team starts grouping and pushing because the threshold remains at 200 HP all game long. You typically favour tankiness because you have to get into the fray, however it means to gain gold you expose yourself, and it's even worse during stand-offs where unless you have some form of long-ranged poke (to trigger Claim's passive) you simply cannot gain anything. Assuming you never let your charges stack, its income starts around 6 gp10 and goes up with minions' gold reward. Obviously you want to use it on the siege minion whenever applicable. It's something like 1.6 gp10 for your farming buddy. However, that is only assuming that you wouldn't have taken these last hits otherwise. TL;DR: - Claim is probably best overall on paper, but underwhelming in actuality and the least probable to use. - Talisman best in practice, be it for stats, active or gold generation. Versatile and most importantly reliable. - Face worst on paper, esp. when it comes to gold generation with very counter-intuitive and awkward mechanics, but HP+CDR > AP and a shield is always good so I expect it to be better than Claim for whichever cases where you don't want Talisman. Note that by managing Face stacks carefully (get 2 before minions spawn, use one on the very first minion, then you'll have 2 for the second wave) you should be able to ensure your lane hits 2 first. I will also be wonderful as low levels where you can use it to shove farm down your noob carry's throat. On the other hand, because it works with stacks and they removed the "Gold Income" passive from jungle items, it may be possible to buy it as a jungler (if possible the tier2 upgrade, so you can get to 4 stacks) and as long as you get a successful gank or help holding a lane every 2 minutes then you can make use of it. It'll mostly be granting gold to your laner though, considering that it's farm you'd have taken yourself either way. It's not interesting to buy the relic shield on the farming duo laner, because it'll only serve to grant ~6-7 gp10 to your support. Assuming it sells for half its value (~180 gold) you'd need ~5 minutes for it to pay for itself, and even then it'd be by transferring gold from you to your support. You wouldn't be able to trade vs dblade unless you're strong early and can use potions to outsustain him. It would make pushing very easy though. As for starters, iirc it's now 475 gold, 515 with the utility tree. So if you start with gold income you're left with 110/150 gold, which is either 1 ward/1 pot, or 2 wards no consumables. Unless you go for the ward trinket it may actually make ganking more powerful early on bot lane because there's going to be much less vision save for early backs. Even then, if the enemy lane has a sweep trinket you may get screwed. Starting wards+pots would let you stay in lane longer, but you'll fall behind in gold if you can't drive somebody starting gold income off, or if you can't use the superior vision to set up a gank. Maybe if your lane is stronger at early levels you can use consumables to get an advantage level 1-2, force a recall, shove into tower while the support is away so he doesn't pull ahead in gold and you back yourself as you have ~400 for ward+your own gold income. Miscellaneous considerations: - does Jax' ult passive proc the ability->auto mastery? - Does a jungle still hit 3 off both buff camps? If not, use smite on first camp, do wolves or wraiths so you get exp+cd back up, use smite on other buff camp and hit3? On November 21 2013 22:16 Slayer91 wrote: soraka is way more fun when you start focusing mostly on using starcall instead of being a healbot though they nerfed starcall pretty hard it reduces your heal cd now at least like QWQ W>Q soraka is gonna be even better I hope as long as you get max CDR and pretty tanky (spirit visage maybe hue) Well they destroyed Infuse to by ripping a lot of its base dmage/mana "heal", and making it actually cost mana to you. Then they raped Starcall, smoked a cig and raped it again, wiht early mana costs nerf, big to huge nerf to the MR reductio, etc. "Soraka isn't a healer but we want to make absolutely sure you're worse off playing aggressively and will max W." | ||
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