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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On October 08 2013 00:53 jcarlsoniv wrote: My smurf is now named Dong Quixote. I'm only going to play heimer on it now. Problem solved. Also, silver is hilarious. Thanks, make me feel worse about attempting to get back into ranked yesterday and failing spectacularly. | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On October 08 2013 00:53 jcarlsoniv wrote: My smurf is now named Dong Quixote. I'm only going to play heimer on it now. Problem solved. Also, silver is hilarious. Stop mocking my home and carry me out of it instead. I will be your Panchode. + Show Spoiler + fuk dat was a reach | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
You know, taken out of context there are ways of interpreting this... | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:06 Alaric wrote: "It's my home but drag me out of it." You know, taken out of context there are ways of interpreting this... A night of hot steamy passion? | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
With the dong. Remember when we talked about like strategy and stuff? | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 08 2013 00:59 Requizen wrote: There was a recent post either on reddit or the O-forums about making Ohmwrecker put Fortify on friendly turrets as well as disabling enemy turrets. With some balancing (each turret can only be Fortified once per 30 seconds or whatever), I think it's a decent idea. Probably would need to tweak build path/stats/cost for it to be a truly good buy, but I liked it. That still has the problem that multiple Fortifies is really frustrating to play against, even if it's not good (which was part of the reason why it was removed, IIRC). | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Like, the idea that "if it's not balanced around the possibility of 5 people getting it, it's fundamentally flawed design" is complete bogus, because there are already a lot of things in the game that were specifically designed for a use case where you don't have more than 1 person buying it (and are heavily discouraged from having multiples). Every aura item in the game behaves this way through the mechanic where multiples of auras do not stack repeatedly. | ||
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MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
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Vegetarian Wolf
China434 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:37 MidnightGladius wrote: There's precedent for diminishing returns on stacking summoners. Heal significantly reduces the effective of subsequent Heals, after all. Also, Banner of Command is a reasonable luxury item on Zyra (or Morello), and I think it's almost to the point of being playable on wealthy supports in general. Being able to shove a lane on demand for baron-dancing purposes seems valuable enough to justify the underwhelming time spent on cd. It's not quite on-demand, you need to wait for a siege creep wave ~_~ | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On October 08 2013 00:36 turdburgler wrote: every time i see zac use his jump to initiate his team spends like 5 seconds just trying to catch up, it never feels like "wow im glad we have a 1500 range jump here". id rather have someone like renekton or jax who can jump in aggressively and actually stun someone. im not saying zac is worthless but even in pro games i struggle to see the value in zac above other tanks. If it takes Zac's team 5 seconds just to catch up, one of the following is true:
That last bullet point is actually dead serious. Unlike many other initiators (e.g. Amumu, Malphite, Sejuani) you have all the warning in the world that Zac is planning to go in. It takes him 1.3 seconds to charge his Elastic Slingshot, which he may even hold for some time after. As long as you're paying attention to your primary initiator, which you should be, following up Zac is easy. Take this fight for example: Despite Meteos jumping 1550 range, LemonNation was still able to follow up and throw Lulu's ultimate on top of Zac's. In fact, if it wasn't for Scarra's inexplicable 1v4 dive all of C9 would have arrived with LemonNation. C9 ended up crushing the fight and taking no losses (that Zac passive). What you're seeing is the same problem that haunts Amumus, Sejuanis, Jarvans, and initators the world over, bad teams. Instead of anticipating the initiation and going in, they wait until it's already happened before they react. That's where the 5 seconds typically comes from, and that's why Zac seems bad to you. | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
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Kyrie
1594 Posts
On October 07 2013 23:55 Ketara wrote: I'm not really seeing this from a theoretical perspective, although I don't claim to be a good Zac player either. In an ideal scenario you hit 5 with bounces and Exhaust is clearly better. If Flash allows you to hit 1 extra person, Exhaust is still probably better because the aspd and damage reductions for 2.5 seconds is going to be reducing their ADC's damage output by more than a 1 second knockup is. If Flash allows you to hit 2 extra people, Flash may win out. Is it really that helpful? I suppose maybe I can see this if the enemy team has like a Vayne who can easily knock you back as soon as you dive in. Hmm. HMM sir. this attempt to break down scenarios doesn't account for the value of being able to choose who to hit, among other flaws. for example, if that extra person is a sona moving in to crescendo, that's more valuable than flashing to hit a sejuani and malphite after they've ulted. because the more valuable targets are precisely those that are more difficult to reach, flash is essential as a mid-ult gapcloser. as an aside, this is the danger with theorycrafting in general - it's essentially a reduction of the game into a model, and while simplifying is a feature rather than drawback of proper modeling, it can have misleading results when key components are ignored. of course, such criticism applies equally to this post, so make of it what you will zac's job in fights is disruption, and positioning is the primary determinant of how disruptive he can be. a single snare, stun, or knockback can stop let's bounce and leave him open to being bursted or ignored without ever getting close enough to threaten the ideal exhaust target apart from possibly using exhaust, which is not worth being taken out of the fight for. even if let's bounce hits 5 without flashing, flash gives zac freedom to decide where he is at the end of his ult, letting him either stick to the target of his choice or take lethal damage and flash out to a safer location to pop his passive exhausting the ad carry isn't evidently superior when zac should be pressuring the ad to hit him anyways, and 2.5 seconds of reduced damage output (during which their own skills and summoners such as flash can be used) versus 1 second of having no mobility or damage at all is not convincing in terms of the exhaust reducing overall damage output appreciably - over the 2.5 duration of exhaust, 1.5 seconds of full damage after the knockup is 150%, 2.5 seconds of 50% attack speed and 30% damage reduction is 87.5% for a difference of less than one autoattack. additionally, guaranteeing the knockup is better than exhausting when the target, such as the support. is not valuable for damage exhaust can also be cleansed by the summoner or a mid tier item that is often a good buy on ad carries to begin with, and flash is preferable in a summoner trade scenario because it will almost always force the target out of position, which, again, is the point of zac | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:00 turdburgler wrote: if they wanted to overhaul summoners i would prefer they added more game changing summoners. if you are going to have 'overpowered' abilities like flash, you want all the other summoners to be just as exciting. i dont think making a turret immune or running faster for some time is as exciting. New summoner spell: Flash 2. Like flash, but only goes 60% of the distance. Take it if you really wanted to take flash/flash on a champ. Think of the plays | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 08 2013 02:31 thenexusp wrote: New summoner spell: Flash 2. Like flash, but only goes 60% of the distance. Take it if you really wanted to take flash/flash on a champ. Think of the plays Oh gosh I can't help but remember when the masteries were broken and the 0 CD Flash games. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 08 2013 02:33 onlywonderboy wrote: I think a change that would appeal to a lot of people would be to make Flash like Blink Dagger where you can't use it for a certain period of time after taking damage. That way you can still have cool engages but less get of jail free cards. The problem with that comparison has always been that Blink Dagger has 1200 range. Most of the unconditional jumps in DotA have far less range that are actually comparable with Flash (Force Staff has no mute-on-damage component and moves you 600 range). | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On October 08 2013 00:14 Zdrastochye wrote: I wouldn't mind them making it purchasable, a blink item would be pretty cool. Perhaps the same route as the jungle items (tanky, ad, ap), one for each spec with flash included. Some champions really do need flash to be effective (Galio comes to mind) but giving it to everyone (after level 12!) is something that still hasn't sat right with me. Makes the game really safe. I wouldn't even mind it being just a dead end utility item with a decent cost, something prohibitive so you don't actually see it x10 unless everyone is 6 items(and even then I'm betting there are people who won't want it as an item slot end game, literally 0 stats is a lot to give up). Riot could go the DotA route with it being unusable for a period after damage(functionality already in the game with things like Orb of Winter and BVeil), or not(but that would make it more attractive for everyone to buy as an escape just like Flash right now). It will never happen, but I wouldn't mind a massive between season shakeup like that. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On October 08 2013 02:33 onlywonderboy wrote: I think a change that would appeal to a lot of people would be to make Flash like Blink Dagger where you can't use it for a certain period of time after taking damage. That way you can still have cool engages but less get of jail free cards. they've said there are too many latency issues with lol. Personally I think the summoners would make really interesting boot enchantments, especially considering the current set is basically homeguard (which is almost a summoner in power level) and then nothing. | ||
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