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On October 26 2013 04:03 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2013 04:01 TheLink wrote:
Ah fml. Riot decided on supports being AP mid lite after all.
It also baffles me that they assume the #1 identifying feature of a support is the ability to heal/shield a companion. Maybe thats what they want but thats not how it works. The defining ability of a support should be the ability to keep someone else in good shape throughout laning phase through some method or another, and to be useful in a fight.
To me it was always "this champion should be useful without farm, either through protection/heals or CC". Now that they're giving them gold, that has to change I guess.
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Wonder if philosophers stone could open the possibility of dropping a support altogether and just let one get a stone and do strong harass on the other support/adc.
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I'm still interested to see how gold flows winning vs. losing. I don't have a huge problem with this as long as the free gold dosen't minimize the advantage of actually winning lane too much (ofc it will a little)
also wards being free is head scratching to me, the slot + max number should be enough, making them free almost reverts the nerf. (mabye it's not intended to be a vision nerf but I feel that is a mistake in itself if true.)
the new support items they've unveiled are pretty snooze worthy, I hope there are more.
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United States23745 Posts
On October 26 2013 04:09 Slusher wrote:
I'm still interested to see how gold flows winning vs. losing. I don't have a huge problem with this as long as the free gold dosen't minimize the advantage of actually winning lane too much (ofc it will a little)
also wards being free is head scratching to me, the slot + max number should be enough, making them free almost reverts the nerf. (mabye it's not intended to be a vision nerf but I feel that is a mistake in itself if true.)
the new support items they've unveiled are pretty snooze worthy, I hope there are more.
Oh I'm sure there's more, those were just one the ones pertaining to gold. I except Shard of True Ice and the like to be fairly different than their Season 3 counterpart (well I hope anyway)
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
Do you guys have any questions which you would like to ask World Elite?
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I feel like most supports who actually like supporting will be really apprehensive to the changes. From quick browsing on reddit I saw lots of "support mains" who claimed they were really excited about the changes. But most of the people I know who main support don't really want the role to drastically change. Maybe my friends are in the minority though.
I think it's cool for the game to get away from supports buying one or no items and just spamming wards. I'm just skeptical about some of the changes like the ward cap and claims, on reddit to be fair, of supports having more gold than solo laners. Also I firmly disagree with the implication that supports need items to have an impact in fights. If you get to start building full item builds with the support changes I wouldn't be surprised if you start seeing shit like support Annie more often (or possibly a revival of support Galio). I'll wait until everything is released and we get like a week of play time on it but I'm pretty skeptical this is going to work the way Riot is intending it to.
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Oh damn, I just realized... support lux + annie going to be in the meta.
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Yes, the philo passive gold income will be removed or reduced, so you don't get free money for not being in lane.
This kills the roaming
Kages is being replaced by spellblade.
Harass -> gold item likely gives AP, Zyra players everywhere get boners
Executioner's Emblem is a proc that triggers when you basic attack with an ally around. This is designed to make it so that supports can help ADCs last hit or the ADC can buy the item, completely control the lane minion flow and funnel gold into the support.
Dunno what to think of this still
Pickpocket mastery still exists.
glad to hear
Build Paths: * Philo turns into Shurelia's Active + CDR * Kages turns into Shard of True Ice - active now usable on enemies * Executioner's Emblem turns into an item that allows you to sacrifice your health to create a shield on an ally (long cooldown)
HAHAHAHAH FUCK YES
If you take the Executioner's Emblem and never last hit, you will not provide bonus gold.
Buying this item means you're opting into sharing the last hitting experience.
Idk how this will play out but likely not well considering how set in the meta people tend to be.
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Baa?21247 Posts
On October 26 2013 04:11 Chexx wrote:
Do you guys have any questions which you would like to ask World Elite?
ask misaya why he's so moe *_*
ask them what they think their most distinguishing/unique aspect is, and if they say some bullshit like we work hard or something call them out and ask for a real answer kthx
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I for one welcome our new support Zed overlords.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
the last hitting experience
ahahahahha
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On October 26 2013 04:11 Chexx wrote:
Do you guys have any questions which you would like to ask World Elite?
How has the team felt about being supplanted for so long as the best team in China? Who do they think deserves the title of best in China? What do they think of NA teams? Do they agree with the direction the Chinese leagues are going? How have they been using the offseason?
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On October 26 2013 04:15 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Oh damn, I just realized... support lux + annie going to be in the meta.
Yeah support Lux was strong already, before the whole 'buy zero items' craze, it's gonna be really damn good if you can actually build full items imoimo.
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am I missing something? I don't see how casting it on enemies makes shard a non shit item?
I said this yesterday, people are tunneling way too hard on AP, this is a HUGE buff to melee supports imo even more than ap supports, Alistar with cdr and actual defensive stats? Have fun with that badboy late game.
it will be good for ap supports, but I think it will change the way melee supports and what melee supports can be played entirely.
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On October 26 2013 04:21 Slusher wrote:
am I missing something? I don't see how casting it on enemies makes shard a non shit item?
I said this yesterday, people are tunneling way too hard on AP, this is a HUGE buff to melee supports imo even more than ap supports, Alistar with cdr and actual defensive stats? Have fun with that badboy late game.
it will be good for ap supports, but I think it will change the way melee supports and what melee supports can be played entirely.
Support Malphite all day every day.
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On October 26 2013 04:21 Slusher wrote:
am I missing something? I don't see how casting it on enemies makes shard a non shit item?
I said this yesterday, people are tunneling way too hard on AP, this is a HUGE buff to melee supports imo even more than ap supports, Alistar with cdr and actual defensive stats? Have fun with that badboy late game.
it will be good for ap supports, but I think it will change the way melee supports and what melee supports can be played entirely.
Well, it'll be less shit! The ability to cast it on an enemy means you have a guaranteed point-and-click slow. Placing it on an ally means that it's entirely dependent on that ally being able to stick to a target, but if they dash/jump away the slow does nothing. Now you can guarantee a chase even on someone with a jump as long as you get it on them to begin with.
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yea thats along the lines of what I was thinking, press R to win melee champions could become a thing.
@req
I mean it dosen't currently shlow the target champion (for obvious reasons) this isn't guaranteed to change.
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On October 26 2013 04:11 Chexx wrote:
Do you guys have any questions which you would like to ask World Elite?
I'd be interesting in knowing what they felt happened for them to lose their spot as #1 Chinese team. Was their inability to adapt to the current meta influenced by motivation or some other factors? Did being #1 for so long make them too comfortable in their position?
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People are excited because riot's talking about making supports more scale-y and impactful. The problem is, it seems like the changes they're making will just wipe support characters off the map instead.
Basically, it seems like they've added a bunch of ways for supports to get gold for free in lane and made their support abilities scale with AP/whatever items.
If supports still get less gold than everyone else in the game-- just *less* less gold than now-- then all that's changed is that they're forced to buy smaller AP/whatever items instead of wards. The scaling on their abilities will probably have to be pretty high for it to be noticeable-- and if that's the case, then why not just play the supports in mid to take advantage of their high-scaling abilities, and fill the support role with utility casters like, say ori? Would riot think that's an acceptable place for the game to be in?
And if the supports are actually getting enough free gold to keep up with everyone else, then why is there even a support in the game? That role can just be filled with another farm-hungry champion, and I'd rather have a well-itemed ahri on my team than a (scaling) sona, janna, nami, or just about anyone else any day.
Obviously this is all just speculation, but I'm still really disappointed that this is the direction they've decided to go in regarding support changes when the (in my opinion) obvious solution of introducing more stat-inefficient, slot-inefficient items with high-impact actives would quickly make supports important characters again, make them more interesting to play, *and* add more interesting choices regarding focusing on early/midgame teamfighting ability versus lategame power for the whole team.
I hope all this works out, but I can't help but feel that after a few months of things playing out as intended some creative players will just completely break this new no-money-scaling paradise. And then it's back to the nerf board.
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On October 26 2013 04:04 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2013 04:03 Amui wrote:On October 26 2013 04:01 TheLink wrote:
Ah fml. Riot decided on supports being AP mid lite after all.
It also baffles me that they assume the #1 identifying feature of a support is the ability to heal/shield a companion. Maybe thats what they want but thats not how it works. The defining ability of a support should be the ability to keep someone else in good shape throughout laning phase through some method or another, and to be useful in a fight. To me it was always "this champion should be useful without farm, either through protection/heals or CC". Now that they're giving them gold, that has to change I guess.
That is how I felt as well, however I'm the only one of my irl friends who likes support. Most of them just get pissed when they get the role because they can't kill anyone, and die to easily. My friend Dan, who is pretty good, like plat 2, flipped out the other day because he died to a 20% HP Jayce,, even though he was full HP and mana.
Its a non balance change.
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EPT
