[Patch 3.12] (j/k) Jinx General Discussion - Page 317

: when we discuss "how to give more gold to the junglers", we're mostly discussing means, often indirect, to affect their income by looking at the causes (like how a bunch of us thought "carry junglers" wouldn't work off of increasing camp value in s3 because you can't afford to afk farm).
But when Riot talk about issues I (too) often get a nasty feeling that their "give more gld to the junglers" is to be taken at face value. They're speaking literally. Which suggests that they ignore (whether on purpose or not) the underlying causes.

Regarding the 4th camp, I remember TL mentioning it at least as far as 1v2 lanes popping up (after donating the blue stopped).
Its positioning suggests several things to me:
- easy access to one camp from a side lane (golems or the new one), potentially lets 1v2 laners take it to still get some gold/exp when zoned?
- reduces the farm discrepancy between jungle sides (when purple side I won't be bot often unless I plan for it because there's only the wolves).
- it's close to the lane so barring other changes, it makes you lose less farm camping the nearby lane instead of making it harder for you to gank/countergank by drawing you away from the lanes (when thinking "4th camp" behind inner tower, opposite from wolves instinctively came to me)
- easy access also means that wherever the duo lane goes, if it shoves or 2v1 it'll have access to a camp to poach

The more I think about it, the more the map looks too tiny to me, or rather, the lanes too short. The waves reach towers so fast so 1v2 laners can barely leave it without immediatly losing cs to the tower, and when you're missing it can immediatly be assumed that you're roaming rather than still in lne, just out of view. Editing the map's size would have pretty huge consequences not limited to these topics, though.


Also, this whole "carry junglers get stronger because they have items that scale with camps", first sounds dumb:
- instead of giving you the income/farm opportunities to buy carry items, you get items that give you more bonuses as you "kill camps"
- we're again in a forced interaction over freedom and the player making a choice: "you want to carry? You'll have these stats by killing camps". Not item build customised by the gold you earn, no income from farm allocation or jungle's gold rewards: you kill monsters, not minions or other stuff, specifically monsters (so outside of laning you have to weight the value of stats gained by killing a camp over the gold earned by clearing a wave), to receive specific stats from specific items granted to you.

On the other hand maybe these are actually items like Seeker's Armguard, so that once they're stacked you don't have incentive to prioritise monsters, and they're balanced at low cost/low efficiency, so they're accessible early, and once stacked they're very cost-effective but only as slot-effective as standard laner items.

Curious about how the "per camp" thing is handled too, seeing possible incentive to counterjungle champs using these items: if it's given by the big monster, or a flat increase per monster (so you casually kill his little wraiths, not cost-effective for you but you reduce the camp's stack worth by 75%), or something else entirely.