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I know there has been some talk about the need for support centric items. Would making cheap items, with very good stats, but that decay with minion kills (like a reverse BT) help. Say it takes 60 CS to the items to decay completely / to a very inefficient level. The first 15 CS could decay 10% of the items stats / actives, the next 15 CS an additional 20% and so on until 60CS completely decay the item to the final stat levels.
The real benefit to these items is they give supports something worthwhile to buy, while making it hard for non-supports to capitalize (they would have a very small power spike that would go away if they got more minion kills)
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This change to fizz is pretty minor honestly.
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United States15536 Posts
On October 17 2013 00:53 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2013 00:14 Vegetarian Wolf wrote:On October 16 2013 23:58 Ketara wrote:On October 16 2013 23:48 Zdrastochye wrote:
Yeah, it fixes nothing that was wrong with him. Hitting his late game scaling? Oh no, what shall I do on Fizz at 50 minutes? Oh wait that's 20 minutes longer than it took them to surrender. Wait what? If you're Fizz with a scary early game Fizz build and starting with 50ish AP, this is 10 less damage per auto on your level 2 all in, which means it's more than 10 less damage because you'll have less missing health and take less missing health damage. Also 10 less damage on the initial Urchin Strike. That's kind of a big deal, even early game. ketara once again showering us with his insight into heroes he doesn't play you're like one of those idiots who look at a hero and think it's completely focused on a single aspect (in this case a level 2 all in) when theres so much more to it this change changes absolutely nothing in how batshit op fizz is Talk about uncalled for, Ketara brings up numbers and you bring up "your stupid you don't play him" No need for the insult and if you have so much more info how about you share it instead of just typing arrogance "I know better" which leads people to think that infact you don't know anything. Notice how much repsect yango gets? It's because he back up his arguments and doesn't insult people.
Well, in fairness, Yango always back up his arguments, but he does occasionally insult people. It's just warranted because he backs up his arguments. 
But yeah, uncalled for. At least give reasons if you're going to tear someone apart.
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support centric items just address the symptom not the problem.
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On October 17 2013 00:54 ShoreT wrote:
I know there has been some talk about the need for support centric items. Would making cheap items, with very good stats, but that decay with minion kills (like a reverse BT) help. Say it takes 60 CS to the items to decay completely / to a very inefficient level. The first 15 CS could decay 10% of the items stats / actives, the next 15 CS an additional 20% and so on until 60CS completely decay the item to the final stat levels.
The real benefit to these items is they give supports something worthwhile to buy, while making it hard for non-supports to capitalize (they would have a very small power spike that would go away if they got more minion kills)
Would never be made. Unfun mechanics.
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I'd like to see cheap small items that you can't ever sell.
Stops solo-laners from building them (unless it's an earlygame all-in, which should be allowed), but is still better than a support can ever hope to be (maybe even using all 6 item slots lategame?!?!?!?!)
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On October 17 2013 00:53 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2013 00:14 Vegetarian Wolf wrote:On October 16 2013 23:58 Ketara wrote:On October 16 2013 23:48 Zdrastochye wrote:
Yeah, it fixes nothing that was wrong with him. Hitting his late game scaling? Oh no, what shall I do on Fizz at 50 minutes? Oh wait that's 20 minutes longer than it took them to surrender. Wait what? If you're Fizz with a scary early game Fizz build and starting with 50ish AP, this is 10 less damage per auto on your level 2 all in, which means it's more than 10 less damage because you'll have less missing health and take less missing health damage. Also 10 less damage on the initial Urchin Strike. That's kind of a big deal, even early game. ketara once again showering us with his insight into heroes he doesn't play you're like one of those idiots who look at a hero and think it's completely focused on a single aspect (in this case a level 2 all in) when theres so much more to it this change changes absolutely nothing in how batshit op fizz is Talk about uncalled for, Ketara brings up numbers and you bring up "your stupid you don't play him" No need for the insult and if you have so much more info how about you share it instead of just typing arrogance "I know better" which leads people to think that infact you don't know anything. Notice how much repsect yango gets? It's because he back up his arguments and doesn't insult people.
no its completely called for ketara has a history of masquerading as an expert on topics he knows nothing about which leads to unsuspecting passerbys being misled into thinking he actually knows anything. im doing a public service by calling him out on it. he is basically the new sufficiency
this forum has way too high tolerance of people just being blatantly WRONG about stuff
need chill-style iron fist rule
On October 17 2013 00:56 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2013 00:53 JimmiC wrote:On October 17 2013 00:14 Vegetarian Wolf wrote:On October 16 2013 23:58 Ketara wrote:On October 16 2013 23:48 Zdrastochye wrote:
Yeah, it fixes nothing that was wrong with him. Hitting his late game scaling? Oh no, what shall I do on Fizz at 50 minutes? Oh wait that's 20 minutes longer than it took them to surrender. Wait what? If you're Fizz with a scary early game Fizz build and starting with 50ish AP, this is 10 less damage per auto on your level 2 all in, which means it's more than 10 less damage because you'll have less missing health and take less missing health damage. Also 10 less damage on the initial Urchin Strike. That's kind of a big deal, even early game. ketara once again showering us with his insight into heroes he doesn't play you're like one of those idiots who look at a hero and think it's completely focused on a single aspect (in this case a level 2 all in) when theres so much more to it this change changes absolutely nothing in how batshit op fizz is Talk about uncalled for, Ketara brings up numbers and you bring up "your stupid you don't play him" No need for the insult and if you have so much more info how about you share it instead of just typing arrogance "I know better" which leads people to think that infact you don't know anything. Notice how much repsect yango gets? It's because he back up his arguments and doesn't insult people. Well, in fairness, Yango always back up his arguments, but he does occasionally insult people. It's just warranted because he backs up his arguments. But yeah, uncalled for. At least give reasons if you're going to tear someone apart.
i explained why - it doesnt do shit cause fizz is so overpowered and ketara is stupid for trying to reduce all of fizz's problems into "level 2 all in" as if that's the end all be all of fizz play
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United States23745 Posts
We need Atroic in here to pass judgement on the Fizz nerf.
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On October 17 2013 00:17 Cixah wrote:
It's also per tick isn't it? I thought that ratio was .35 per tick of the passive.
I think .35 is for the entire duration of the dot. Overall not a huge nerf in dmg.
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On October 17 2013 00:59 Dandel Ion wrote:
I'd like to see cheap small items that you can't ever sell.
Stops solo-laners from building them (unless it's an earlygame all-in, which should be allowed), but is still better than a support can ever hope to be (maybe even using all 6 item slots lategame?!?!?!?!)
Accidental buys would be absolutely brutal.
Just need good active items that give minimal stats. If ohm wrecker didn't give so many useless regen stats built in, and useless amounts of AP, it'd be decent buy on supports, because by removing these stats the item would probably only cost 1.2k gold at most. Reasonable enough cost for supports to pick it up after sightstone, but offering no combat stats that a sololaner would want.
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United States23745 Posts
On October 17 2013 00:56 turdburgler wrote:
support centric items just address the symptom not the problem.
Is the problem lack of gold then? I'd prefer them to create new items to accommodate for the Support's lack of gold rather than giving them more gold to buy "real" items.
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see no one even knows how fizz's W works lol
fizz's w has a passive component which deals a total of .35 ap over the duration (+ the % missing and base) on hit, duration refreshed with multiple hits
when activated, fizz's w deals ADDITIONAL damage on top of his passive thats .35 ap PER HIT + some flat base
its actually retarded amounts of damage but no one ever stopped to think about it cause people are dumb and dont actually look at how the game works before dismissing heroes as bad
fizz has been op for agesssssss he was just shadowed by the attention on khazix and jayce bullshit
not to mention the, you know, 8s cd invincibility disjoint
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On October 17 2013 01:08 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2013 00:56 turdburgler wrote:
support centric items just address the symptom not the problem.
Is the problem lack of gold then? I'd prefer them to create new items to accommodate for the Support's lack of gold rather than giving them more gold to buy "real" items.
#freeHoG
Gold isn't the problem. There is always gold on the map, it's a matter of creating items that incentives supports geting really strong items.
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United States15536 Posts
On October 17 2013 01:03 Vegetarian Wolf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2013 00:53 JimmiC wrote:On October 17 2013 00:14 Vegetarian Wolf wrote:On October 16 2013 23:58 Ketara wrote:On October 16 2013 23:48 Zdrastochye wrote:
Yeah, it fixes nothing that was wrong with him. Hitting his late game scaling? Oh no, what shall I do on Fizz at 50 minutes? Oh wait that's 20 minutes longer than it took them to surrender. Wait what? If you're Fizz with a scary early game Fizz build and starting with 50ish AP, this is 10 less damage per auto on your level 2 all in, which means it's more than 10 less damage because you'll have less missing health and take less missing health damage. Also 10 less damage on the initial Urchin Strike. That's kind of a big deal, even early game. ketara once again showering us with his insight into heroes he doesn't play you're like one of those idiots who look at a hero and think it's completely focused on a single aspect (in this case a level 2 all in) when theres so much more to it this change changes absolutely nothing in how batshit op fizz is Talk about uncalled for, Ketara brings up numbers and you bring up "your stupid you don't play him" No need for the insult and if you have so much more info how about you share it instead of just typing arrogance "I know better" which leads people to think that infact you don't know anything. Notice how much repsect yango gets? It's because he back up his arguments and doesn't insult people. no its completely called for ketara has a history of masquerading as an expert on topics he knows nothing about which leads to unsuspecting passerbys being misled into thinking he actually knows anything. im doing a public service by calling him out on it. he is basically the new sufficiency this forum has way too high tolerance of people just being blatantly WRONG about stuff need chill-style iron fist rule Show nested quote +On October 17 2013 00:56 AsmodeusXI wrote:On October 17 2013 00:53 JimmiC wrote:On October 17 2013 00:14 Vegetarian Wolf wrote:On October 16 2013 23:58 Ketara wrote:On October 16 2013 23:48 Zdrastochye wrote:
Yeah, it fixes nothing that was wrong with him. Hitting his late game scaling? Oh no, what shall I do on Fizz at 50 minutes? Oh wait that's 20 minutes longer than it took them to surrender. Wait what? If you're Fizz with a scary early game Fizz build and starting with 50ish AP, this is 10 less damage per auto on your level 2 all in, which means it's more than 10 less damage because you'll have less missing health and take less missing health damage. Also 10 less damage on the initial Urchin Strike. That's kind of a big deal, even early game. ketara once again showering us with his insight into heroes he doesn't play you're like one of those idiots who look at a hero and think it's completely focused on a single aspect (in this case a level 2 all in) when theres so much more to it this change changes absolutely nothing in how batshit op fizz is Talk about uncalled for, Ketara brings up numbers and you bring up "your stupid you don't play him" No need for the insult and if you have so much more info how about you share it instead of just typing arrogance "I know better" which leads people to think that infact you don't know anything. Notice how much repsect yango gets? It's because he back up his arguments and doesn't insult people. Well, in fairness, Yango always back up his arguments, but he does occasionally insult people. It's just warranted because he backs up his arguments. But yeah, uncalled for. At least give reasons if you're going to tear someone apart. i explained why - it doesnt do shit cause fizz is so overpowered and ketara is stupid for trying to reduce all of fizz's problems into "level 2 all in" as if that's the end all be all of fizz play
I don't see where Ketara claimed it was the end all be all. He said a big deal. If that's not true, fine, but you're creating an bold assertion of a much smaller one.
Go ahead and call people out but at least be accurate about what the problem is.
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On October 17 2013 01:09 Vegetarian Wolf wrote:
fizz's w has a passive component which deals a total of .35 ap over the duration (+ the % missing and base) on hit, duration refreshed with multiple hits
when activated, fizz's w deals ADDITIONAL damage on top of his passive thats .35 ap PER HIT + some flat base
its actually retarded amounts of damage but no one ever stopped to think about it
I think maybe you mean an additional .15 per hit. Because it's being nerfed.
re: my post, what I was saying was that, in response to wei saying this nerf would only matter at 50 minutes, reducing Fizz's AP ratio on every single autoattack he makes from .35 to .15 will matter straight from level 1.
I'm not sure how that's debatable really? It's a sizeable damage nerf.
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On October 17 2013 01:14 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2013 01:03 Vegetarian Wolf wrote:On October 17 2013 00:53 JimmiC wrote:On October 17 2013 00:14 Vegetarian Wolf wrote:On October 16 2013 23:58 Ketara wrote:On October 16 2013 23:48 Zdrastochye wrote:
Yeah, it fixes nothing that was wrong with him. Hitting his late game scaling? Oh no, what shall I do on Fizz at 50 minutes? Oh wait that's 20 minutes longer than it took them to surrender. Wait what? If you're Fizz with a scary early game Fizz build and starting with 50ish AP, this is 10 less damage per auto on your level 2 all in, which means it's more than 10 less damage because you'll have less missing health and take less missing health damage. Also 10 less damage on the initial Urchin Strike. That's kind of a big deal, even early game. ketara once again showering us with his insight into heroes he doesn't play you're like one of those idiots who look at a hero and think it's completely focused on a single aspect (in this case a level 2 all in) when theres so much more to it this change changes absolutely nothing in how batshit op fizz is Talk about uncalled for, Ketara brings up numbers and you bring up "your stupid you don't play him" No need for the insult and if you have so much more info how about you share it instead of just typing arrogance "I know better" which leads people to think that infact you don't know anything. Notice how much repsect yango gets? It's because he back up his arguments and doesn't insult people. no its completely called for ketara has a history of masquerading as an expert on topics he knows nothing about which leads to unsuspecting passerbys being misled into thinking he actually knows anything. im doing a public service by calling him out on it. he is basically the new sufficiency this forum has way too high tolerance of people just being blatantly WRONG about stuff need chill-style iron fist rule On October 17 2013 00:56 AsmodeusXI wrote:On October 17 2013 00:53 JimmiC wrote:On October 17 2013 00:14 Vegetarian Wolf wrote:On October 16 2013 23:58 Ketara wrote:On October 16 2013 23:48 Zdrastochye wrote:
Yeah, it fixes nothing that was wrong with him. Hitting his late game scaling? Oh no, what shall I do on Fizz at 50 minutes? Oh wait that's 20 minutes longer than it took them to surrender. Wait what? If you're Fizz with a scary early game Fizz build and starting with 50ish AP, this is 10 less damage per auto on your level 2 all in, which means it's more than 10 less damage because you'll have less missing health and take less missing health damage. Also 10 less damage on the initial Urchin Strike. That's kind of a big deal, even early game. ketara once again showering us with his insight into heroes he doesn't play you're like one of those idiots who look at a hero and think it's completely focused on a single aspect (in this case a level 2 all in) when theres so much more to it this change changes absolutely nothing in how batshit op fizz is Talk about uncalled for, Ketara brings up numbers and you bring up "your stupid you don't play him" No need for the insult and if you have so much more info how about you share it instead of just typing arrogance "I know better" which leads people to think that infact you don't know anything. Notice how much repsect yango gets? It's because he back up his arguments and doesn't insult people. Well, in fairness, Yango always back up his arguments, but he does occasionally insult people. It's just warranted because he backs up his arguments. But yeah, uncalled for. At least give reasons if you're going to tear someone apart. i explained why - it doesnt do shit cause fizz is so overpowered and ketara is stupid for trying to reduce all of fizz's problems into "level 2 all in" as if that's the end all be all of fizz play I don't see where Ketara claimed it was the end all be all. He said a big deal. If that's not true, fine, but you're creating an bold assertion of a much smaller one. Go ahead and call people out but at least be accurate about what the problem is.
His post:
On October 16 2013 23:58 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2013 23:48 Zdrastochye wrote:
Yeah, it fixes nothing that was wrong with him. Hitting his late game scaling? Oh no, what shall I do on Fizz at 50 minutes? Oh wait that's 20 minutes longer than it took them to surrender. Wait what? If you're Fizz with a scary early game Fizz build and starting with 50ish AP, this is 10 less damage per auto on your level 2 all in, which means it's more than 10 less damage because you'll have less missing health and take less missing health damage. Also 10 less damage on the initial Urchin Strike. That's kind of a big deal, even early game.
The entirety of the post talks about his level 2 all-in, and uses that to respond to someone who is (correctly) pointing out the nerf is insignificant
That's his entire argument, so yes, he is reducing all of Fizz to the level 2 all in
On October 17 2013 01:15 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2013 01:03 Vegetarian Wolf wrote:On October 17 2013 00:53 JimmiC wrote:On October 17 2013 00:14 Vegetarian Wolf wrote:On October 16 2013 23:58 Ketara wrote:On October 16 2013 23:48 Zdrastochye wrote:
Yeah, it fixes nothing that was wrong with him. Hitting his late game scaling? Oh no, what shall I do on Fizz at 50 minutes? Oh wait that's 20 minutes longer than it took them to surrender. Wait what? If you're Fizz with a scary early game Fizz build and starting with 50ish AP, this is 10 less damage per auto on your level 2 all in, which means it's more than 10 less damage because you'll have less missing health and take less missing health damage. Also 10 less damage on the initial Urchin Strike. That's kind of a big deal, even early game. ketara once again showering us with his insight into heroes he doesn't play you're like one of those idiots who look at a hero and think it's completely focused on a single aspect (in this case a level 2 all in) when theres so much more to it this change changes absolutely nothing in how batshit op fizz is Talk about uncalled for, Ketara brings up numbers and you bring up "your stupid you don't play him" No need for the insult and if you have so much more info how about you share it instead of just typing arrogance "I know better" which leads people to think that infact you don't know anything. Notice how much repsect yango gets? It's because he back up his arguments and doesn't insult people. no its completely called for ketara has a history of masquerading as an expert on topics he knows nothing about which leads to unsuspecting passerbys being misled into thinking he actually knows anything. im doing a public service by calling him out on it. he is basically the new sufficiency this forum has way too high tolerance of people just being blatantly WRONG about stuff need chill-style iron fist rule On October 17 2013 00:56 AsmodeusXI wrote:On October 17 2013 00:53 JimmiC wrote:On October 17 2013 00:14 Vegetarian Wolf wrote:On October 16 2013 23:58 Ketara wrote:On October 16 2013 23:48 Zdrastochye wrote:
Yeah, it fixes nothing that was wrong with him. Hitting his late game scaling? Oh no, what shall I do on Fizz at 50 minutes? Oh wait that's 20 minutes longer than it took them to surrender. Wait what? If you're Fizz with a scary early game Fizz build and starting with 50ish AP, this is 10 less damage per auto on your level 2 all in, which means it's more than 10 less damage because you'll have less missing health and take less missing health damage. Also 10 less damage on the initial Urchin Strike. That's kind of a big deal, even early game. ketara once again showering us with his insight into heroes he doesn't play you're like one of those idiots who look at a hero and think it's completely focused on a single aspect (in this case a level 2 all in) when theres so much more to it this change changes absolutely nothing in how batshit op fizz is Talk about uncalled for, Ketara brings up numbers and you bring up "your stupid you don't play him" No need for the insult and if you have so much more info how about you share it instead of just typing arrogance "I know better" which leads people to think that infact you don't know anything. Notice how much repsect yango gets? It's because he back up his arguments and doesn't insult people. Well, in fairness, Yango always back up his arguments, but he does occasionally insult people. It's just warranted because he backs up his arguments. But yeah, uncalled for. At least give reasons if you're going to tear someone apart. i explained why - it doesnt do shit cause fizz is so overpowered and ketara is stupid for trying to reduce all of fizz's problems into "level 2 all in" as if that's the end all be all of fizz play If that is infact true then prove it, by argueing his point with your "correct point" what you did made him look better and you worse. Happens shockingly often in RL as well, esspecially in business and then the people on your end have no idea why they are not as successful, or liked as they could be. Sure there are successful jerks, but they have to either be far better or, very socially skilled. I have no problem with bluntness "Ketara you are wrong because of X Y Z" What is a terrible post and way to argue, and function in society is "Ketara you are a poopy head and I'm smarter then you so I'm right" advice is worth what you pay for it, so do with it what you choose, but if you're goal was to show ketara was wrong you failed. All you accomplished was looking like a arrogant dick, which you may or may not be.
ok
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Looks like some people still don't know who Volf is
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On October 17 2013 00:54 ShoreT wrote:
I know there has been some talk about the need for support centric items. Would making cheap items, with very good stats, but that decay with minion kills (like a reverse BT) help. Say it takes 60 CS to the items to decay completely / to a very inefficient level. The first 15 CS could decay 10% of the items stats / actives, the next 15 CS an additional 20% and so on until 60CS completely decay the item to the final stat levels.
The real benefit to these items is they give supports something worthwhile to buy, while making it hard for non-supports to capitalize (they would have a very small power spike that would go away if they got more minion kills)
this is a bad idea because
a) it reverses the main mechanic of this game: Lasthitting minions. Now its suddenly bad to do it.
b) It creates artificial complicated rules. You only want to create as many rules as needed. And you dont want to create very spcific rules for very specific situations just to balance something.
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EPT
