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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
On October 14 2013 19:07 Osmoses wrote: Disagree, she has a slow with ridiculous range and a snare she can just pop at her feet, plenty to work with in terms of escape imo. Not going to help you when a Malphite, Zac or Jarvan jumps on your face. | ||
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ItsFunToLose
United States776 Posts
On October 14 2013 20:14 Prog wrote: Not going to help you when a Malphite, Zac or Jarvan jumps on your face. If either of those 3 jumped straight on the ADC's face, usually it's a combination of mispositioning, lack of vision control, and the rest of your front line (or even AP carry) refusing to blow CD's just for chip/deterrent poke damage. There are proactive ways to mitigate not having a free get-out-of-jail-free card that allow the existence of nonbullshit(fuck ezreal) ADC kits. from my experience, the best way to not get hard engaged on is to simply chunk the guy who wants jump on top of your team. easier said than done, sure, but I definitely think jinx is bonkers right now. I 100% agree that hard engage is the answer to carries like kogmaw, but I also don't think you can just pick him whenever you want. When CLGeu ran kog, it was often in combination with anivia, or other strong peel/disengage/zone control specialists that allow very decisive 5v2 plays if the enemy team does choose to make a play on your adc. Ezreal being a 1 size fits all ADC is not an argument against jinx being very good at dealing damage given the right teamcomp. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
sure ez having an 8 second blink might be bullshit, but if that ezreal played as well as you are demanding jinx to play, then the ez is at a huge advantage, and doubly so when you cant trust your team. | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
On October 14 2013 20:37 ItsFunToLose wrote: If either of those 3 jumped straight on the ADC's face, usually it's a combination of a mispositioning, lack of vision control, and the rest of your front line (or even AP carry) refusing to blow CD's just for chip/deterrent poke damage. There are proactive ways to mitigate not having a free get-out-of-jail card that allow the existence of nonbullshit(fuck ezreal) ADC kits. Sure there are ways around it, but the argument was about Osmoses' disagreement with Turdburgler's statement that Jinx lacks mobility (escape) and therefore does not have everything an adc needs. And it certainly is true that Jinx lacks good ways to evade heavy divers. You can build your team in a way to compensate it, but that was not the point. It is similar to the way Twitch plays out and why Malphite (for example) is a good pick against Twitch. I just did not quote every step in the argument because I thought it would be obvious, but it goes like this: + Show Spoiler + On October 14 2013 18:26 Mensol wrote: Jinx has everything an adc needs :< she is like hybrid of all adc's  On October 14 2013 18:33 turdburgler wrote: i think that once people get used to her she will be pretty bad in yolo queue but workable in proper play. her complete lack of mobility means that if you cant trust your team and support ganks are practically impossible to escape. but on the flipside if you do get a good start on her her damage in monstrous. On October 14 2013 19:07 Osmoses wrote: Disagree, she has a slow with ridiculous range and a snare she can just pop at her feet, plenty to work with in terms of escape imo. On October 14 2013 20:14 Prog wrote: Not going to help you when a Malphite, Zac or Jarvan jumps on your face. | ||
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ItsFunToLose
United States776 Posts
The point is that malphite isnt picked 100% of all games. So for the other 90% of the time he isn't picked, Jinx seems to have tons of self peel. Zac without tenacity isn't terribly scary and outside of jarvans terror lane ganks early game, I think jinx probably shreds him before it matters that she even got ulted. So outside of using the top 3 fringe cases for best adc dives, she pretty much walks away from everything. and even against the top divers, she has a LOT of counterplay options at her disposal. even in yoloqueue. If your point is "lets wait and see how it plays out before nerfing her, I think the community will come up with valid ways to deal with her bonkers numbers and ridiculous kit," then I think you're out of your mind. | ||
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GozoShioda
205 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i40.tinypic.com/o6d9ux.png) So I found my freelo train. My big concern is how far can I ride it before the season ends  User was warned for this post | ||
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Spaiku
Spain1114 Posts
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
On October 14 2013 20:56 ItsFunToLose wrote: Malphite being a strong pick against ADCs has no bearing on jinx having tons of self peel in most situations. Malphite as a champion just poops on ADCs, with or without CS. he ults in, stomps your face a little, then probably dies, but he did his job and his team is probably taking baron while you all wait to respawn. The point is that malphite isnt picked 100% of all games. So for the other 90% of the time he isn't picked, Jinx seems to have tons of self peel. Zac without tenacity isn't terribly scary and outside of jarvans terror lane ganks early game, I think jinx probably shreds him before it matters that she even got ulted. So outside of using the top 3 fringe cases for best adc dives, she pretty much walks away from everything. and even against the top divers, she has a LOT of counterplay options at her disposal. even in yoloqueue. If your point is "lets wait and see how it plays out before nerfing her, I think the community will come up with valid ways to deal with her bonkers numbers and ridiculous kit," then I think you're out of your mind. There are two claims. The first is simply: "Jinx does not have everything an adc wants to have, because she has a lack of mobility which can be a problem." And this allows counterplay similar to other immobile carries like Twitch or Kog. The backing for this claim is a lack of an escape and impossibility to self-peel certain hard-engages. 1) An adc ideally has ways to stay alive in a fight either by escape or self-peel. 2) Jinx lacks an escape. 3) Some hard-engages cannot be self-peeled by Jinx. Conclusion: Jinx does not have everything an adc wants to have. In the next step this can lead to the bolder claim that this problem leads to Jinx being bad in soloq, because you have to rely on others to play around your lack of an escape. I'm not sure about this step (especially premise 5), but the first conclusion is certainly sound. I think the second conclusion is at least valid: 4) Jinx has to rely heavily on the team for good peel. 5) In soloQ you cannot expect the team to provide this peel. Conclusion: Jinx is bad for soloQ. On a side note: Malphite is a very bad pick against some other adcs like Ezreal or Corki, who do have high mobility and are less auto-attack reliant. He ults in while Ez just jumps away laughing. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On October 14 2013 16:27 Kouda wrote: Brokenshard coached them for a few months iirc Brokenshard got it the wrong way round he always plays then coaches, look at dragonborns and TCM. | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + CCCCCCCCCCCCCUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEE | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
1) Twisted Treeline solo queue 2) Ranked Dominion 3) More Teemo skins | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
If she's ahead she is absolutely wrecking face both in lane and teamfights and destroys everything. If she's behind she's squishy and no escapes and gets dunked over and over. I think she has the tools to be good in the hands of a good player, but it looks like she has real difficulty playing from behind. | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
On October 14 2013 14:14 GhandiEAGLE wrote: For all of you guys that like to really rag on the Starcraft community just because some loud outliers don't like us, you can be pretty nastily smug :/ I'm fine with the loud outliers, I'm just really smug that, of all people, sc2 players are complaining about an "easier game" | ||
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Sermokala
United States14104 Posts
On October 14 2013 23:20 Xenocide_Knight wrote: I'm fine with the loud outliers, I'm just really smug that, of all people, sc2 players are complaining about an "easier game" but thats not a lol smug thing to be about thats a bw fan hipstering it in lol thing to be smug about. you can only bring up that smug when people complain about lol the game and not the esports surrounding lol. Then you have to get in the dota 2 origins smug and spiritual sequal smug. smug about sc2 now is just kinda sad and kicking someone when their down and their hero's are leaving them which is just pity instead of smug. | ||
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Vegetarian Wolf
China434 Posts
On October 14 2013 23:30 Sermokala wrote: but thats not a lol smug thing to be about thats a bw fan hipstering it in lol thing to be smug about. you can only bring up that smug when people complain about lol the game and not the esports surrounding lol. Then you have to get in the dota 2 origins smug and spiritual sequal smug. smug about sc2 now is just kinda sad and kicking someone when their down and their hero's are leaving them which is just pity instead of smug. i read this post like three times and i have no idea what you're trying to say | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Long live MMOs. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 14 2013 23:55 Sufficiency wrote: Well Jinx is currently 52% winrate on lolking. That's the same winrate as release Diana. Still not top 10 win percent in any bracket for ranked or normal. Rammus is in all of them tho nerf taunt. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On October 14 2013 23:58 Requizen wrote: Still not top 10 win percent in any bracket for ranked or normal. Rammus is in all of them tho nerf taunt. But she isn't that easy to play and she is already 52% on first week... Diana was ONLY 52% on first week as well..... so yeah. | ||
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