On September 23 2013 22:07 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Like this shit^
u srs? you're basically accusing a team of practicing systematic cheating lol
either put up some proof or stop making baseless accusations
money is involved, lots of money, lots of exposure. hell, people pay to have fucking followers on twitter, which essentially is cheating and you coat your patriotic feelings in some kind of idealistic thought of sportsmanship, that doesnt exist anywhere money is thrown around.
nowhere did i deny that sometimes, people cheat
but just because some people sometimes cheat doesn't mean you get to go call a team cheaters without proof
well, to me and to others it looks like you're in denial. and you get to call anyone anything without proof, this is no courtroom and nobody is demanding punishment. you probably shouldn't have been so quick to jump in, more so the way you did it, trying to shut people up is never a good idea, even (or especially) in a position of power.
I still think arguing about the fact that OMG used the pause to cheat is the dumbest thing Reddit came up with recently. There is no evidence or whatsoever which proves that. Its just dumb. Your concern that players can pause is valid though. Should be in the hands of the Riot observer.
money is involved, lots of money, lots of exposure. hell, people pay to have fucking followers on twitter, which essentially is cheating and you coat your patriotic feelings in some kind of idealistic thought of sportsmanship, that doesnt exist anywhere money is thrown around.
nowhere did i deny that sometimes, people cheat
but just because some people sometimes cheat doesn't mean you get to go call a team cheaters without proof
well, to me and to others it looks like you're in denial. and you get to call anyone anything without proof, this is no courtroom and nobody is demanding punishment. you probably shouldn't have been so quick to jump in, more so the way you did it, trying to shut people up is never a good idea, even (or especially) in a position of power.
i mean im not telling anyone how to think or change their opinions, but if you get opine and say stupid things i get to opine and call you out for saying stupid shit, free speech goes both ways
letmelose got all offended that i called his viewpoint stupid, so either stop making comments that get you called stupid or back up your comments
On September 24 2013 00:02 Chexx wrote: I still think arguing about the fact that OMG used the pause to cheat is the dumbest thing Reddit came up with recently. There is no evidence or whatsoever which proves that. Its just dumb. Your concern that players can pause is valid though. Should be in the hands of the Riot observer.
Yeah this is a real concern and a totally legitimate topic for discussion, but people are just using it as a veneer to randomly bash on players ~_~
as niukasu pointed out, i'd be a lot more inclined to entertain your suspicions if not for the fact that it happened in what amounts to an inconsequential showmatch with no money on the line and nothing at stake except maybe some temporary pride that will be overwhelmed by actual playoff performance anyways
On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote: Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect.
People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause.
One things for sure, you can't have manager/anyone affiliated with the team during the matches come up to the players to talk. I know the translator was hired locally and isn't associated with OMG, but then you can't be wearing a piece of clothing that suggests you are supporting or working for OMG, if anything she should have a riot employee shirt on for the tournament or else people are going to speculate.
On September 24 2013 00:24 UnKooL wrote: One things for sure, you can't have manager/anyone affiliated with the team during the matches come up to the players to talk. I know the translator was hired locally and isn't associated with OMG, but then you can't be wearing a piece of clothing that suggests you are supporting or working for OMG, if anything she should have a riot employee shirt on for the tournament or else people are going to speculate.
I think this is where a lot of the misunderstanding is coming from.
On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote: Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect.
People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause.
SKT cheated. Fucked with San's mouse to force pause so that Ezreal could ult.
This whole drama is stupid. Both SKT and OMG got an "advantage" from the pause. Suggesting a team cheated in a game that didn't mean anything is just silly especially when there's virtually no evidence that looks like cheating.
Honestly, these accusations are pretty ridiculous and insulting OMG's intelligence. Even if you DO practice cheating, then you don't cheat in an inconsequential match, that is retarded. Please.
Even if TSM did dodge ganks because of being warned by the audience, it's not their responsibility to make sure the match can't be affected by unfair factors. Thinking about what you should do to be fair if you hear a warning is too fking confusing and distracting during a game.
it's fucking stupid lol SKT probably came out higher ahead in that engagement than they would have if piglet had missed his ultimate (which the pause may have helped), unless you think cool would have missed his q and an auto otherwise (possible, but unlikely for a player of his caliber).
of course the timing of the pause will give way for uncertainty and suspicions, but we have the rest of the tournament to watch OMG. if these types of pauses continue occurring, despite the truth of the situations, the suspicions will continue to build. if they don't, we should give them the benefit of the doubt. as was mentioned, this game was entirely for the teams' individual prides etc. while you might argue that this means something, i doubt OMG is stupid enough to cheat in the entry stages of a tournament so big for their careers and prize purses.
i just dont like the philosophy most people portray in this thread, and generally, are going by, which basically comes down to: "i always try to play fair and thus deserve all my wins in life, losses are easier to deal with if you have the feeling of having done everything right anyway. then i close my eyes and believe wholeheartedly everyone else around me plays by the same set of moral standards."
scip raises a good point, its not the players responsibility to not try to gain the most advantage out of any kind of situation they face, but the organizers to ensure there's as little room as possible for false play. but please, stop behaving like naive teenagers, on this forum alone there have been countless incidents with well-known and sometimes even respected members of the community trying to gain unfair advantages in a competition, most times not even worth money or neglectable fame. people risk everything, everyday to be the first, the biggest, the best. how much money is at stakes again for winning worlds? yeah, nobody would ever cheat, because its an inconsequential match, wat? i will retreat from this thread after this post, but really, greed, pride and all these good shades of human character are what makes people risk everything for apparently inconsequential shit.
btw: i don't think it was cheating in this particular case, but a team with a history of pausing in dubious moments doesnt get the benefit of doubt so easily anymore
On September 23 2013 20:44 Letmelose wrote: There are various posts on this subject, and if we go in detail, there is little doubt that the timings of the pauses were at least calculated on the part of OMG, even if we are to believe that the technical difficulties were indeed there. You only need to replay the movements of San to notice that there is something off, in both of the games that were brought into question.
Is it against the regulations? Perhaps not, but it is in extremely bad taste, and people really don't appreciate OMG making a habbit out of this.
but how do you communicate when to pause?
I personally believe that in both of the cases, San took a couple of seconds to spectate what was going on, and paused what he thought would be the most advantageous timing for his team, regardless of what else went on during those games. Pauses and technical difficulties are much more common in the Chinese scene, and it has become a second nature for some of these players to get some advantages out of these situations.
If you have a problem, pause the game without trying to gain something on the side. That's all I'm asking.
For the most part, most of your posts are pretty high quality, then I read this shit, and I'm like whoa, is this PX?
On September 24 2013 00:50 [DUF]MethodMan wrote: . how much money is at stakes again for winning worlds? yeah, nobody would ever cheat, because its an inconsequential match, wat?
The main point being brought here is that both OMG and SKT have already secured advancement from groups, and there is no advantage to being a higher seed, so there actually was nothing on the line for these teams for this particular game other than pride.
People have been complaining about the pauses? I thought people just made some jokes about the timings half-seriously then moved on. There were only 2 instances where I can think of were a pause potentially could have been strategic but if you take into account how many pauses overall went on then its bound to happen.
What I want to know is: What the hell is up with Korean/Chinese equipment that makes it fuck up so much? Is it just some incompatibility with Asian hardware with whatever Riot has set up? Asian teams have paused a fuck ton more then EU/NA ones so its something with the hardware that Asian teams brought conflicting?
On September 24 2013 01:07 Slaughter wrote: People have been complaining about the pauses? I thought people just made some jokes about the timings half-seriously then moved on. There were only 2 instances where I can think of were a pause potentially could have been strategic but if you take into account how many pauses overall went on then its bound to happen.
What I want to know is: What the hell is up with Korean/Chinese equipment that makes it fuck up so much? Is it just some incompatibility with Asian hardware with whatever Riot has set up? Asian teams have paused a fuck ton more then EU/NA ones so its something with the hardware that Asian teams brought conflicting?
No, Koreans and Chinese like to cheat. First Woong, now San, clearly both races have cheating in their blood. That's why Riot rigged the drafting system to systematically try and remove as many koreans and chinese teams as possible.
can we accuse TSM for purposefully throwing yet? PS: The Koreans cheated last year and they are going to this year too PSS: The Chinese are cheating by using Dyrus' sense of honor to force him to die to ganks despite crowdhack wheras he would have avoided the ganks with his game sense otherwise PSSS: Riot purposefully rigged their Quarterfinal brackets to guarantee Western Teams advancing PSSSS: NA teams have historically been colluding with one another, its assumed that they are still doing so now
On September 24 2013 01:14 Slaughter wrote: I actually seriously want to know why Asian teams seem to be having such difficulty and why Riot didn't prepare for this beforehand.
According to letmelose, it's to allow for excuses so they can practice their systematic cheating.
seriously though, I dunno. Could just be crappy asian hardware, or some coding stuff not working well with Windows, or maybe weird cross client issues (KR client playing with CN client)?
On September 24 2013 00:31 Scip wrote: Honestly, these accusations are pretty ridiculous and insulting OMG's intelligence. Even if you DO practice cheating, then you don't cheat in an inconsequential match, that is retarded. Please.
The most absurd thing is the people on Reddit pointing to BW match-fixing as a way for a team to have a vested interest in the outcome of an inconsequential match.
On September 24 2013 01:17 wei2coolman wrote: the HDD hotswap sounds like a good idea tho.
Wouldn't solve hardware malfunction.
Even TI3 had hardware issues despite these kinds of precautions.
EPT
