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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Loading from a save doesn't work because one of the teams could gain information they would have not gotten otherwise.
Instapausing is about as good as it gets.
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On September 24 2013 02:00 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 01:43 Sufficiency wrote:On September 24 2013 01:35 Alzadar wrote:On September 24 2013 01:28 Sufficiency wrote:
The real problem is that riot is too lenient on pauses. It should be like bw where you type ppp to pause, and only the obs can pause. This pausing thing is getting out of hands. Yeah this seems really obvious. If you have an equipment malfunction then you request a pause and the referee will pause the game as soon as there is no action. The funny thing is, I watched bw for years and I have never seen a case which someone's mouse malfunctions. ... not sure if srs bw had plenty of technical difficulties of all sorts...
Sorry for exaggerating this, but I do feel there is rarely any sort of mouse issues.
Simply put, because pausing is hard and disadvantageous, players actually have the incentive to check their equipments.
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On September 24 2013 02:00 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 01:43 Sufficiency wrote:On September 24 2013 01:35 Alzadar wrote:On September 24 2013 01:28 Sufficiency wrote:
The real problem is that riot is too lenient on pauses. It should be like bw where you type ppp to pause, and only the obs can pause. This pausing thing is getting out of hands. Yeah this seems really obvious. If you have an equipment malfunction then you request a pause and the referee will pause the game as soon as there is no action. The funny thing is, I watched bw for years and I have never seen a case which someone's mouse malfunctions. ... not sure if srs bw had plenty of technical difficulties of all sorts...
Yeah, so many times I wake up at 4am to watch OSL and after all the technical difficulties the games don't start until 6am. QQ
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On September 24 2013 02:00 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 01:43 Sufficiency wrote:On September 24 2013 01:35 Alzadar wrote:On September 24 2013 01:28 Sufficiency wrote:
The real problem is that riot is too lenient on pauses. It should be like bw where you type ppp to pause, and only the obs can pause. This pausing thing is getting out of hands. Yeah this seems really obvious. If you have an equipment malfunction then you request a pause and the referee will pause the game as soon as there is no action. The funny thing is, I watched bw for years and I have never seen a case which someone's mouse malfunctions. ... not sure if srs bw had plenty of technical difficulties of all sorts...
Blowing your nose is not a technical difficulty
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POWER OUTAGE
QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
jaedong would have won that game fucking........
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
LOL, the pause where someone just bolted out of the stage to piss was hilarious. Who was it, Zorozero?
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I've worked many tournaments the past couple years, some with riot as well (MLG) and the biggest problem are the usb ports. When you have special keyboards that light up and require 2 usb ports for power, that's when you start to have usb power problems that affect keyboard mouse and not the computer itself. I've had many problems dealing with this issue over the past couple years and this is not so uncommon as you think. It doesn't help that multiple people are installing/unistalling drivers every time they get on a computer. I would think it could also cause some of the mouse/keyboard issues when the people who get on don't unistall everything successfully. The usb 3.0 is also sketchy, many devices have problems with it overall.
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On September 24 2013 02:18 Scip wrote:
LOL, the pause where someone just bolted out of the stage to piss was hilarious. Who was it, Zorozero?
yea, personally, that's teh kind of pause that needs to have some penalty. the onus is on you, the player, to be prepared to play the game. Piss before the game ffs.
Hardware malfunctions happen and there's not much anyone can really do. Still, I don't think players should be allowed to pause. They should request a pause and a ref/obs should be the one pausing. This prevents players from tactical pausing regardless if there was a legitimate reason or not. It'll also give Riot and teams better defense against the paranoid keyboard warriors like Letmelose (Chinese teams practice tactical pauses lol real)
On September 24 2013 01:57 Scip wrote:
Not allowing pauses or overly restricting them is not a good idea. Imagine how shitty worlds could end if in the deciding match Cool had another mouse malfunction and everything went to shit because of it. Riot would not get to see the morning sun for all the pitchforks in their eyes. Yes, it can be somewhat abuseable (referees deciding whether a pause is/isn't justified prevents obvious abuse), but it is better than any of the alternatives.
Riot would get pitchforks if a pause happens regardless.
Letting players pause is too abusable, especially with so much $$$ on the line. Best solution, imo, is to only allow referees to pause and no talking during pauses. This way, refs can basically make a judgement of whether pausing at that moment in time will adversely affect the game. For example, in the Cool/Faker scenario, the person who needs the pause is San who was in absolutely no danger. he can request pause, ref can let the Cool/Faker fight play out, then pause. San wasn't doing shit during that time anyways and he was basically 100% safe. If, however, someone's hardware or w/e dies during a critical moment like a teamfight, the only way to really be fair is to use a load/save system. If you let players insta-pause themselves, this will be abused even if they don't intend it to be tactical. Giving players extra seconds to react is huge and absolutely game-changing, especially in a game where everyone has Flash and Thresh lantern is a thing.
I agree that load/save gives teams info they wouldn't have otherwise and that is a problem, but this solution has a much lower chance of deciding the game, whereas giving players a few extra seconds to react to that game changing skillshot or initiate can easily end the game.
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On September 24 2013 00:19 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote:
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect. People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause.
After reviewing the timings, I believe you may be right, the game was paused at 9:09, and the earliest time of the VOD available for view, 9:10, I can't see the cooldown being set, and by 9:11 the ultimate is already almost reached Cool. The cooldown on Ezreal's ultimate does not go on cooldown because of the second or so animation of the preparation stage, so it would have been possible for Piglet to spam his ultimate immediately after the unpause.
The real reason I was upset at San was not because of the technical difficulties he had, but the moment he decided to pause the game. He recalls back to base, buys no times, starts to walk back to lane but stops dead on the tracks the moment Faker ignites Cool, stands still for a couple of seconds, then decides to pause the game the moment Ahri's auto-attack animation starts off. If he was in such a hurry to pause the game, he could have done it the moment he went back to base, but he was in my eyes clearly influenced by what was going on in the game, and timed the pause pretty much intentionally, which would never happen had it been done by a third person refereeing the game. The players themselves should never be in control of when the pause happens. It can, and has been used to disrupt the natural flow of the game (having some time to think about what to do can change things by so much, expecially during frantic moments), and while pauses themselves are unavoidable, referees should be able to pause it at a more suitable time.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
personally i think it was a rather intentional pause because of the conspicuous timing and previous record of similar behavior, but it's not a big game so w/e. stuff like this should be prevented in the future. it's not only to prevent abuse, but controversy about pausing and technical fuck ups.
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On September 24 2013 04:26 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 00:19 TheYango wrote:On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote:
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect. People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause. After reviewing the timings, I believe you may be right, the game was paused at 9:09, and the earliest time of the VOD available for view, 9:10, I can't see the cooldown being set, and by 9:11 the ultimate is already almost reached Cool. The cooldown on Ezreal's ultimate does not go on cooldown because of the second or so animation of the preparation stage, so it would have been possible for Piglet to spam his ultimate immediately after the unpause. The real reason I was upset at San was not because of the technical difficulties he had, but the moment he decided to pause the game. He recalls back to base, buys no times, starts to walk back to lane but stops dead on the tracks the moment Faker ignites Cool, stands still for a couple of seconds, then decides to pause the game the moment Ahri's auto-attack animation starts off. If he was in such a hurry to pause the game, he could have done it the moment he went back to base, but he was in my eyes clearly influenced by what was going on in the game, and timed the pause pretty much intentionally, which would never happen had it been done by a third person refereeing the game. The players themselves should never be in control of when the pause happens. It can, and has been used to disrupt the natural flow of the game (having some time to think about what to do can change things by so much, expecially during frantic moments), and while pauses themselves are unavoidable, referees should be able to pause it at a more suitable time.
a) Lol at you trying to sound like it requires some forensic investigation to decide whether Ez ulted after the pause or not. Trueshot Barrage is bright fucking yellow when the pause ends, boom discussion over.
b)Did it not occur to you that he may have had his problems start after/during his back? There are multiple realistic scenarios involving a mouse or keyboard failure that could allow him to still back and not notice until he's back/at shop. It almost looks like he goes back to buy, goes to leave fountain with bought items, and realizes he didn't/can't buy them(left click fucked up? tons of people don't right click buy).
For a person so intent on watching the mid fight to pause at the exact correct moment, he sure starts moving again pretty quickly.
Also, Ahri gets the auto off before the pause, and with no aspd she definitely hasn't reached a meaningful point in the next animation to cry pause cancel(especially since he instantly changes directions as the camera swaps back to game, which would cancel his own auto).
TLDR: You're a lunatic.
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On September 24 2013 12:51 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 04:26 Letmelose wrote:On September 24 2013 00:19 TheYango wrote:On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote:
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect. People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause. After reviewing the timings, I believe you may be right, the game was paused at 9:09, and the earliest time of the VOD available for view, 9:10, I can't see the cooldown being set, and by 9:11 the ultimate is already almost reached Cool. The cooldown on Ezreal's ultimate does not go on cooldown because of the second or so animation of the preparation stage, so it would have been possible for Piglet to spam his ultimate immediately after the unpause. The real reason I was upset at San was not because of the technical difficulties he had, but the moment he decided to pause the game. He recalls back to base, buys no times, starts to walk back to lane but stops dead on the tracks the moment Faker ignites Cool, stands still for a couple of seconds, then decides to pause the game the moment Ahri's auto-attack animation starts off. If he was in such a hurry to pause the game, he could have done it the moment he went back to base, but he was in my eyes clearly influenced by what was going on in the game, and timed the pause pretty much intentionally, which would never happen had it been done by a third person refereeing the game. The players themselves should never be in control of when the pause happens. It can, and has been used to disrupt the natural flow of the game (having some time to think about what to do can change things by so much, expecially during frantic moments), and while pauses themselves are unavoidable, referees should be able to pause it at a more suitable time. a) Lol at you trying to sound like it requires some forensic investigation to decide whether Ez ulted after the pause or not. Trueshot Barrage is bright fucking yellow when the pause ends, boom discussion over. b)Did it not occur to you that he may have had his problems start after/during his back? There are multiple realistic scenarios involving a mouse or keyboard failure that could allow him to still back and not notice until he's back/at shop. It almost looks like he goes back to buy, goes to leave fountain with bought items, and realizes he didn't/can't buy them(left click fucked up? tons of people don't right click buy). For a person so intent on watching the mid fight to pause at the exact correct moment, he sure starts moving again pretty quickly. Also, Ahri gets the auto off before the pause, and with no aspd she definitely hasn't reached a meaningful point in the next animation to cry pause cancel(especially since he instantly changes directions as the camera swaps back to game, which would cancel his own auto). TLDR: You're a lunatic.
We're talking about professional gamers here. There is next to zero chance of San not being aware of what was the most urgent situation after he recalled to base and having not moved at all from 9:02 to 9:09, even if he was being distracted by his technical difficulties. Regardless of whatever excuses you may come up with, San has almost for certain knowingly paused the game despite what was going on in the map, and even if his realization that something was wrong by chance coincided with the mid-lane battle, his decision to pause at that exact moment, regardless of whether he intended to gain any secondary benefits or not, was in extremely bad taste. There is absolutely no denying this, and there's also no questioning that such actions should be prevented in the future, so that the flow of the game aren't affected by any factors that weren't meant to influence it.
Twist it any way you want, the decision to pause at the moment from San, whether it was subconscious, intentional, or although very unlikely, purely out of ignorance and bad luck, was in bad taste, and I for one am not looking forward to seeing such things happen again in this tournament. Other tournaments in the past have taken measures to prevent these kind of things from happening, and it's hilarious that you think accusations of this nature should be more frowned upon than the actual choice of the player in question, just because you believe that San was completely unaware of what was going on and the timing of the pause was mere coincidence, or believe that whether or not he knew what was going on, the timing of the pause was just fine. I don't want to see pauses of this nature again, and if you think otherwise, say so, but don't pretend this is something that it's not.
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Onyxia deep breaths more guys.
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
On September 24 2013 16:25 Seuss wrote:
Onyxia deep breaths more guys.
yeah this summarizes it very good. The only good thing which came out of this thread is that players shouldnt be allowed to pause.
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On September 24 2013 16:21 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 12:51 red_ wrote:On September 24 2013 04:26 Letmelose wrote:On September 24 2013 00:19 TheYango wrote:On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote:
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect. People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause. After reviewing the timings, I believe you may be right, the game was paused at 9:09, and the earliest time of the VOD available for view, 9:10, I can't see the cooldown being set, and by 9:11 the ultimate is already almost reached Cool. The cooldown on Ezreal's ultimate does not go on cooldown because of the second or so animation of the preparation stage, so it would have been possible for Piglet to spam his ultimate immediately after the unpause. The real reason I was upset at San was not because of the technical difficulties he had, but the moment he decided to pause the game. He recalls back to base, buys no times, starts to walk back to lane but stops dead on the tracks the moment Faker ignites Cool, stands still for a couple of seconds, then decides to pause the game the moment Ahri's auto-attack animation starts off. If he was in such a hurry to pause the game, he could have done it the moment he went back to base, but he was in my eyes clearly influenced by what was going on in the game, and timed the pause pretty much intentionally, which would never happen had it been done by a third person refereeing the game. The players themselves should never be in control of when the pause happens. It can, and has been used to disrupt the natural flow of the game (having some time to think about what to do can change things by so much, expecially during frantic moments), and while pauses themselves are unavoidable, referees should be able to pause it at a more suitable time. a) Lol at you trying to sound like it requires some forensic investigation to decide whether Ez ulted after the pause or not. Trueshot Barrage is bright fucking yellow when the pause ends, boom discussion over. b)Did it not occur to you that he may have had his problems start after/during his back? There are multiple realistic scenarios involving a mouse or keyboard failure that could allow him to still back and not notice until he's back/at shop. It almost looks like he goes back to buy, goes to leave fountain with bought items, and realizes he didn't/can't buy them(left click fucked up? tons of people don't right click buy). For a person so intent on watching the mid fight to pause at the exact correct moment, he sure starts moving again pretty quickly. Also, Ahri gets the auto off before the pause, and with no aspd she definitely hasn't reached a meaningful point in the next animation to cry pause cancel(especially since he instantly changes directions as the camera swaps back to game, which would cancel his own auto). TLDR: You're a lunatic. We're talking about professional gamers here. There is next to zero chance of San not being aware of what was the most urgent situation after he recalled to base and having not moved at all from 9:02 to 9:09, even if he was being distracted by his technical difficulties. Regardless of whatever excuses you may come up with, San has almost for certain knowingly paused the game despite what was going on in the map, and even if his realization that something was wrong by chance coincided with the mid-lane battle, his decision to pause at that exact moment, regardless of whether he intended to gain any secondary benefits or not, was in extremely bad taste. There is absolutely no denying this, and there's also no questioning that such actions should be prevented in the future, so that the flow of the game aren't affected by any factors that weren't meant to influence it. Twist it any way you want, the decision to pause at the moment from San, whether it was subconscious, intentional, or although very unlikely, purely out of ignorance and bad luck, was in bad taste, and I for one am not looking forward to seeing such things happen again in this tournament. Other tournaments in the past have taken measures to prevent these kind of things from happening, and it's hilarious that you think accusations of this nature should be more frowned upon than the actual choice of the player in question, just because you believe that San was completely unaware of what was going on and the timing of the pause was mere coincidence, or believe that whether or not he knew what was going on, the timing of the pause was just fine. I don't want to see pauses of this nature again, and if you think otherwise, say so, but don't pretend this is something that it's not.
I dunno. I watch plenty of pro-streams, and you'd be surprised how much stuff they miss on whats going on in the map. They'll be like "whoa, this person got a kill?" "since when did Kat become 6-0?".
Seriously, at this point, you might as way say Riot rigged the quarterfinal draws, cuz "subconscious signalling" by Red Beard to force Royal to draw OMG.
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Australia18228 Posts
On September 24 2013 16:21 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 12:51 red_ wrote:On September 24 2013 04:26 Letmelose wrote:On September 24 2013 00:19 TheYango wrote:On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote:
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect. People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause. After reviewing the timings, I believe you may be right, the game was paused at 9:09, and the earliest time of the VOD available for view, 9:10, I can't see the cooldown being set, and by 9:11 the ultimate is already almost reached Cool. The cooldown on Ezreal's ultimate does not go on cooldown because of the second or so animation of the preparation stage, so it would have been possible for Piglet to spam his ultimate immediately after the unpause. The real reason I was upset at San was not because of the technical difficulties he had, but the moment he decided to pause the game. He recalls back to base, buys no times, starts to walk back to lane but stops dead on the tracks the moment Faker ignites Cool, stands still for a couple of seconds, then decides to pause the game the moment Ahri's auto-attack animation starts off. If he was in such a hurry to pause the game, he could have done it the moment he went back to base, but he was in my eyes clearly influenced by what was going on in the game, and timed the pause pretty much intentionally, which would never happen had it been done by a third person refereeing the game. The players themselves should never be in control of when the pause happens. It can, and has been used to disrupt the natural flow of the game (having some time to think about what to do can change things by so much, expecially during frantic moments), and while pauses themselves are unavoidable, referees should be able to pause it at a more suitable time. a) Lol at you trying to sound like it requires some forensic investigation to decide whether Ez ulted after the pause or not. Trueshot Barrage is bright fucking yellow when the pause ends, boom discussion over. b)Did it not occur to you that he may have had his problems start after/during his back? There are multiple realistic scenarios involving a mouse or keyboard failure that could allow him to still back and not notice until he's back/at shop. It almost looks like he goes back to buy, goes to leave fountain with bought items, and realizes he didn't/can't buy them(left click fucked up? tons of people don't right click buy). For a person so intent on watching the mid fight to pause at the exact correct moment, he sure starts moving again pretty quickly. Also, Ahri gets the auto off before the pause, and with no aspd she definitely hasn't reached a meaningful point in the next animation to cry pause cancel(especially since he instantly changes directions as the camera swaps back to game, which would cancel his own auto). TLDR: You're a lunatic. We're talking about professional gamers here. There is next to zero chance of San not being aware of what was the most urgent situation after he recalled to base and having not moved at all from 9:02 to 9:09, even if he was being distracted by his technical difficulties. Regardless of whatever excuses you may come up with, San has almost for certain knowingly paused the game despite what was going on in the map, and even if his realization that something was wrong by chance coincided with the mid-lane battle, his decision to pause at that exact moment, regardless of whether he intended to gain any secondary benefits or not, was in extremely bad taste. There is absolutely no denying this, and there's also no questioning that such actions should be prevented in the future, so that the flow of the game aren't affected by any factors that weren't meant to influence it. Twist it any way you want, the decision to pause at the moment from San, whether it was subconscious, intentional, or although very unlikely, purely out of ignorance and bad luck, was in bad taste, and I for one am not looking forward to seeing such things happen again in this tournament. Other tournaments in the past have taken measures to prevent these kind of things from happening, and it's hilarious that you think accusations of this nature should be more frowned upon than the actual choice of the player in question, just because you believe that San was completely unaware of what was going on and the timing of the pause was mere coincidence, or believe that whether or not he knew what was going on, the timing of the pause was just fine. I don't want to see pauses of this nature again, and if you think otherwise, say so, but don't pretend this is something that it's not.
If San was watching mid-lane and intentionally paused to gain an advantage, then he did it at the WORST fucking time. Why didn't he pause when Faker ignited Cool? Or when he blew his first ult charge? Pause right after any of those, and you can let Cool realise the all-in is going to happen.
But... nope, he pauses AFTER Faker has used every single skill-shot and right BEFORE Cool used his combo. It was the absolute worst timing, he startled Cool and gave Faker a chance to dodge Cool's counter all-in, and gave Piglet the chance to snipe Cool off.
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On September 24 2013 17:00 Inflicted_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 16:21 Letmelose wrote:On September 24 2013 12:51 red_ wrote:On September 24 2013 04:26 Letmelose wrote:On September 24 2013 00:19 TheYango wrote:On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote:
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect. People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause. After reviewing the timings, I believe you may be right, the game was paused at 9:09, and the earliest time of the VOD available for view, 9:10, I can't see the cooldown being set, and by 9:11 the ultimate is already almost reached Cool. The cooldown on Ezreal's ultimate does not go on cooldown because of the second or so animation of the preparation stage, so it would have been possible for Piglet to spam his ultimate immediately after the unpause. The real reason I was upset at San was not because of the technical difficulties he had, but the moment he decided to pause the game. He recalls back to base, buys no times, starts to walk back to lane but stops dead on the tracks the moment Faker ignites Cool, stands still for a couple of seconds, then decides to pause the game the moment Ahri's auto-attack animation starts off. If he was in such a hurry to pause the game, he could have done it the moment he went back to base, but he was in my eyes clearly influenced by what was going on in the game, and timed the pause pretty much intentionally, which would never happen had it been done by a third person refereeing the game. The players themselves should never be in control of when the pause happens. It can, and has been used to disrupt the natural flow of the game (having some time to think about what to do can change things by so much, expecially during frantic moments), and while pauses themselves are unavoidable, referees should be able to pause it at a more suitable time. a) Lol at you trying to sound like it requires some forensic investigation to decide whether Ez ulted after the pause or not. Trueshot Barrage is bright fucking yellow when the pause ends, boom discussion over. b)Did it not occur to you that he may have had his problems start after/during his back? There are multiple realistic scenarios involving a mouse or keyboard failure that could allow him to still back and not notice until he's back/at shop. It almost looks like he goes back to buy, goes to leave fountain with bought items, and realizes he didn't/can't buy them(left click fucked up? tons of people don't right click buy). For a person so intent on watching the mid fight to pause at the exact correct moment, he sure starts moving again pretty quickly. Also, Ahri gets the auto off before the pause, and with no aspd she definitely hasn't reached a meaningful point in the next animation to cry pause cancel(especially since he instantly changes directions as the camera swaps back to game, which would cancel his own auto). TLDR: You're a lunatic. We're talking about professional gamers here. There is next to zero chance of San not being aware of what was the most urgent situation after he recalled to base and having not moved at all from 9:02 to 9:09, even if he was being distracted by his technical difficulties. Regardless of whatever excuses you may come up with, San has almost for certain knowingly paused the game despite what was going on in the map, and even if his realization that something was wrong by chance coincided with the mid-lane battle, his decision to pause at that exact moment, regardless of whether he intended to gain any secondary benefits or not, was in extremely bad taste. There is absolutely no denying this, and there's also no questioning that such actions should be prevented in the future, so that the flow of the game aren't affected by any factors that weren't meant to influence it. Twist it any way you want, the decision to pause at the moment from San, whether it was subconscious, intentional, or although very unlikely, purely out of ignorance and bad luck, was in bad taste, and I for one am not looking forward to seeing such things happen again in this tournament. Other tournaments in the past have taken measures to prevent these kind of things from happening, and it's hilarious that you think accusations of this nature should be more frowned upon than the actual choice of the player in question, just because you believe that San was completely unaware of what was going on and the timing of the pause was mere coincidence, or believe that whether or not he knew what was going on, the timing of the pause was just fine. I don't want to see pauses of this nature again, and if you think otherwise, say so, but don't pretend this is something that it's not. If San was watching mid-lane and intentionally paused to gain an advantage, then he did it at the WORST fucking time. Why didn't he pause when Faker ignited Cool? Or when he blew his first ult charge? Pause right after any of those, and you can let Cool realise the all-in is going to happen. But... nope, he pauses AFTER Faker has used every single skill-shot and right BEFORE Cool used his combo. It was the absolute worst timing, he startled Cool and gave Faker a chance to dodge Cool's counter all-in, and gave Piglet the chance to snipe Cool off.
That's actually what I was thinking. I actually thought that the pause gave SKT a pretty big advantage because it gave Piglet/Faker enough time to decide if they wanted the call for the ezrael ult.
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On September 24 2013 16:46 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 16:21 Letmelose wrote:On September 24 2013 12:51 red_ wrote:On September 24 2013 04:26 Letmelose wrote:On September 24 2013 00:19 TheYango wrote:On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote:
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect. People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause. After reviewing the timings, I believe you may be right, the game was paused at 9:09, and the earliest time of the VOD available for view, 9:10, I can't see the cooldown being set, and by 9:11 the ultimate is already almost reached Cool. The cooldown on Ezreal's ultimate does not go on cooldown because of the second or so animation of the preparation stage, so it would have been possible for Piglet to spam his ultimate immediately after the unpause. The real reason I was upset at San was not because of the technical difficulties he had, but the moment he decided to pause the game. He recalls back to base, buys no times, starts to walk back to lane but stops dead on the tracks the moment Faker ignites Cool, stands still for a couple of seconds, then decides to pause the game the moment Ahri's auto-attack animation starts off. If he was in such a hurry to pause the game, he could have done it the moment he went back to base, but he was in my eyes clearly influenced by what was going on in the game, and timed the pause pretty much intentionally, which would never happen had it been done by a third person refereeing the game. The players themselves should never be in control of when the pause happens. It can, and has been used to disrupt the natural flow of the game (having some time to think about what to do can change things by so much, expecially during frantic moments), and while pauses themselves are unavoidable, referees should be able to pause it at a more suitable time. a) Lol at you trying to sound like it requires some forensic investigation to decide whether Ez ulted after the pause or not. Trueshot Barrage is bright fucking yellow when the pause ends, boom discussion over. b)Did it not occur to you that he may have had his problems start after/during his back? There are multiple realistic scenarios involving a mouse or keyboard failure that could allow him to still back and not notice until he's back/at shop. It almost looks like he goes back to buy, goes to leave fountain with bought items, and realizes he didn't/can't buy them(left click fucked up? tons of people don't right click buy). For a person so intent on watching the mid fight to pause at the exact correct moment, he sure starts moving again pretty quickly. Also, Ahri gets the auto off before the pause, and with no aspd she definitely hasn't reached a meaningful point in the next animation to cry pause cancel(especially since he instantly changes directions as the camera swaps back to game, which would cancel his own auto). TLDR: You're a lunatic. We're talking about professional gamers here. There is next to zero chance of San not being aware of what was the most urgent situation after he recalled to base and having not moved at all from 9:02 to 9:09, even if he was being distracted by his technical difficulties. Regardless of whatever excuses you may come up with, San has almost for certain knowingly paused the game despite what was going on in the map, and even if his realization that something was wrong by chance coincided with the mid-lane battle, his decision to pause at that exact moment, regardless of whether he intended to gain any secondary benefits or not, was in extremely bad taste. There is absolutely no denying this, and there's also no questioning that such actions should be prevented in the future, so that the flow of the game aren't affected by any factors that weren't meant to influence it. Twist it any way you want, the decision to pause at the moment from San, whether it was subconscious, intentional, or although very unlikely, purely out of ignorance and bad luck, was in bad taste, and I for one am not looking forward to seeing such things happen again in this tournament. Other tournaments in the past have taken measures to prevent these kind of things from happening, and it's hilarious that you think accusations of this nature should be more frowned upon than the actual choice of the player in question, just because you believe that San was completely unaware of what was going on and the timing of the pause was mere coincidence, or believe that whether or not he knew what was going on, the timing of the pause was just fine. I don't want to see pauses of this nature again, and if you think otherwise, say so, but don't pretend this is something that it's not. I dunno. I watch plenty of pro-streams, and you'd be surprised how much stuff they miss on whats going on in the map. They'll be like "whoa, this person got a kill?" "since when did Kat become 6-0?". Seriously, at this point, you might as way say Riot rigged the quarterfinal draws, cuz "subconscious signalling" by Red Beard to force Royal to draw OMG.
San wasn't busy doing anything, and wouldn't a player that had just recalled usually does take notice of what is going on in the map in order to judge where to go? Judging by the movements of the rest of the team (changing their directions in order to help Cool), even if San so terribly occupied by his technical difficulties that he didn't have time to realize anything from the moment he recalled to the moment he decided to pause, isn't it kind of likely he would have listened to what the rest of the team were calling out? How likely is it for San at the moment he paused to be completely unaware of what was going on at the time?
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On September 24 2013 17:24 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 16:46 wei2coolman wrote:On September 24 2013 16:21 Letmelose wrote:On September 24 2013 12:51 red_ wrote:On September 24 2013 04:26 Letmelose wrote:On September 24 2013 00:19 TheYango wrote:On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote:
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect. People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause. After reviewing the timings, I believe you may be right, the game was paused at 9:09, and the earliest time of the VOD available for view, 9:10, I can't see the cooldown being set, and by 9:11 the ultimate is already almost reached Cool. The cooldown on Ezreal's ultimate does not go on cooldown because of the second or so animation of the preparation stage, so it would have been possible for Piglet to spam his ultimate immediately after the unpause. The real reason I was upset at San was not because of the technical difficulties he had, but the moment he decided to pause the game. He recalls back to base, buys no times, starts to walk back to lane but stops dead on the tracks the moment Faker ignites Cool, stands still for a couple of seconds, then decides to pause the game the moment Ahri's auto-attack animation starts off. If he was in such a hurry to pause the game, he could have done it the moment he went back to base, but he was in my eyes clearly influenced by what was going on in the game, and timed the pause pretty much intentionally, which would never happen had it been done by a third person refereeing the game. The players themselves should never be in control of when the pause happens. It can, and has been used to disrupt the natural flow of the game (having some time to think about what to do can change things by so much, expecially during frantic moments), and while pauses themselves are unavoidable, referees should be able to pause it at a more suitable time. a) Lol at you trying to sound like it requires some forensic investigation to decide whether Ez ulted after the pause or not. Trueshot Barrage is bright fucking yellow when the pause ends, boom discussion over. b)Did it not occur to you that he may have had his problems start after/during his back? There are multiple realistic scenarios involving a mouse or keyboard failure that could allow him to still back and not notice until he's back/at shop. It almost looks like he goes back to buy, goes to leave fountain with bought items, and realizes he didn't/can't buy them(left click fucked up? tons of people don't right click buy). For a person so intent on watching the mid fight to pause at the exact correct moment, he sure starts moving again pretty quickly. Also, Ahri gets the auto off before the pause, and with no aspd she definitely hasn't reached a meaningful point in the next animation to cry pause cancel(especially since he instantly changes directions as the camera swaps back to game, which would cancel his own auto). TLDR: You're a lunatic. We're talking about professional gamers here. There is next to zero chance of San not being aware of what was the most urgent situation after he recalled to base and having not moved at all from 9:02 to 9:09, even if he was being distracted by his technical difficulties. Regardless of whatever excuses you may come up with, San has almost for certain knowingly paused the game despite what was going on in the map, and even if his realization that something was wrong by chance coincided with the mid-lane battle, his decision to pause at that exact moment, regardless of whether he intended to gain any secondary benefits or not, was in extremely bad taste. There is absolutely no denying this, and there's also no questioning that such actions should be prevented in the future, so that the flow of the game aren't affected by any factors that weren't meant to influence it. Twist it any way you want, the decision to pause at the moment from San, whether it was subconscious, intentional, or although very unlikely, purely out of ignorance and bad luck, was in bad taste, and I for one am not looking forward to seeing such things happen again in this tournament. Other tournaments in the past have taken measures to prevent these kind of things from happening, and it's hilarious that you think accusations of this nature should be more frowned upon than the actual choice of the player in question, just because you believe that San was completely unaware of what was going on and the timing of the pause was mere coincidence, or believe that whether or not he knew what was going on, the timing of the pause was just fine. I don't want to see pauses of this nature again, and if you think otherwise, say so, but don't pretend this is something that it's not. I dunno. I watch plenty of pro-streams, and you'd be surprised how much stuff they miss on whats going on in the map. They'll be like "whoa, this person got a kill?" "since when did Kat become 6-0?". Seriously, at this point, you might as way say Riot rigged the quarterfinal draws, cuz "subconscious signalling" by Red Beard to force Royal to draw OMG. San wasn't busy doing anything, and wouldn't a player that had just recalled usually does take notice of what is going on in the map in order to judge where to go? Judging by the movements of the rest of the team (changing their directions in order to help Cool), even if San so terribly occupied by his technical difficulties that he didn't have time to realize anything from the moment he recalled to the moment he decided to pause, isn't it kind of likely he would have listened to what the rest of the team were calling out? How likely is it for San at the moment he paused to be completely unaware of what was going on at the time?
Don't you have to signal for a ref to pause before you pause? If so, it's almost impossible to time the pause to try to get an advantage during the duel.
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On September 24 2013 16:21 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 12:51 red_ wrote:On September 24 2013 04:26 Letmelose wrote:On September 24 2013 00:19 TheYango wrote:On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote:
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect. People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause. After reviewing the timings, I believe you may be right, the game was paused at 9:09, and the earliest time of the VOD available for view, 9:10, I can't see the cooldown being set, and by 9:11 the ultimate is already almost reached Cool. The cooldown on Ezreal's ultimate does not go on cooldown because of the second or so animation of the preparation stage, so it would have been possible for Piglet to spam his ultimate immediately after the unpause. The real reason I was upset at San was not because of the technical difficulties he had, but the moment he decided to pause the game. He recalls back to base, buys no times, starts to walk back to lane but stops dead on the tracks the moment Faker ignites Cool, stands still for a couple of seconds, then decides to pause the game the moment Ahri's auto-attack animation starts off. If he was in such a hurry to pause the game, he could have done it the moment he went back to base, but he was in my eyes clearly influenced by what was going on in the game, and timed the pause pretty much intentionally, which would never happen had it been done by a third person refereeing the game. The players themselves should never be in control of when the pause happens. It can, and has been used to disrupt the natural flow of the game (having some time to think about what to do can change things by so much, expecially during frantic moments), and while pauses themselves are unavoidable, referees should be able to pause it at a more suitable time. a) Lol at you trying to sound like it requires some forensic investigation to decide whether Ez ulted after the pause or not. Trueshot Barrage is bright fucking yellow when the pause ends, boom discussion over. b)Did it not occur to you that he may have had his problems start after/during his back? There are multiple realistic scenarios involving a mouse or keyboard failure that could allow him to still back and not notice until he's back/at shop. It almost looks like he goes back to buy, goes to leave fountain with bought items, and realizes he didn't/can't buy them(left click fucked up? tons of people don't right click buy). For a person so intent on watching the mid fight to pause at the exact correct moment, he sure starts moving again pretty quickly. Also, Ahri gets the auto off before the pause, and with no aspd she definitely hasn't reached a meaningful point in the next animation to cry pause cancel(especially since he instantly changes directions as the camera swaps back to game, which would cancel his own auto). TLDR: You're a lunatic. We're talking about professional gamers here. There is next to zero chance of San not being aware of what was the most urgent situation after he recalled to base and having not moved at all from 9:02 to 9:09, even if he was being distracted by his technical difficulties. Regardless of whatever excuses you may come up with, San has almost for certain knowingly paused the game despite what was going on in the map, and even if his realization that something was wrong by chance coincided with the mid-lane battle, his decision to pause at that exact moment, regardless of whether he intended to gain any secondary benefits or not, was in extremely bad taste. There is absolutely no denying this, and there's also no questioning that such actions should be prevented in the future, so that the flow of the game aren't affected by any factors that weren't meant to influence it. Twist it any way you want, the decision to pause at the moment from San, whether it was subconscious, intentional, or although very unlikely, purely out of ignorance and bad luck, was in bad taste, and I for one am not looking forward to seeing such things happen again in this tournament. Other tournaments in the past have taken measures to prevent these kind of things from happening, and it's hilarious that you think accusations of this nature should be more frowned upon than the actual choice of the player in question, just because you believe that San was completely unaware of what was going on and the timing of the pause was mere coincidence, or believe that whether or not he knew what was going on, the timing of the pause was just fine. I don't want to see pauses of this nature again, and if you think otherwise, say so, but don't pretend this is something that it's not.
You're hilarious.
That's also an awful lot of words you're putting in my mouth. I almost literally said nothing you say I did. That's pretty impressive.
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EPT
