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[Patch 3.11] General Discussion - Page 93

Forum Index > LoL General
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Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
September 10 2013 22:45 GMT
#1841
So Riot is basically crowdsourcing the support/jungle changes. There are now threads in both NA and EU calling for feedback, and even a reddit post.

I gave them the best feedback I could:
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1m3iku/talk_to_us_about_support_income_and_warding_costs/cc5sk73
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-10 22:48:19
September 10 2013 22:46 GMT
#1842
^ I made a huge-ass post about support itemisation in that thread. I've actually posted a thread addressed to Xypherous (who was said to be in charge of items for s4) regarding it, but despite bumping it during peak hours for several days it ended up drowned under the drama and Elo hell threads.

On September 11 2013 07:23 TheYango wrote:
EDIT: The best analogy I can give for this is learning a new language. Obviously with enough time and practice, anyone can learn a new language, and become fluent in conversing in that new language. But ultimately everyone thinks in their own head in their native language. That's naturally ingrained into you based on when you first learned to speak/read/write, and learning other languages still does not override that voice in your head that speaks in your native language.

Because my English usage is pretty specific (reading Pratchett, browsing TL, a bunch of RPGs) I tend to default to thinking in English in a bunch of situations that I encounter more often on the Internet than in French.
Also because English tends to have many meanings for a word while we have many words for a meaning, so often I just take a 2 seconds pause, then get impatient and blurt an English word in the middle of a sentence just because it's so more intuitive than the precise French equivalent. >_>
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
September 10 2013 22:47 GMT
#1843
As hilarious as that is Monte (very hilarious), you should probably give real suggestions
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
BobMcJohnson
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
France2916 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-10 22:49:43
September 10 2013 22:48 GMT
#1844
Are slot inefficient items really that desirable for supports? I mean sure it's a good way to make sure that laners dont buy them, but when I play support I actually feel kinda starved for item slots, once you get boots + sightstone + philostone + green ward + pink ward + kindlegem you actually have your 6 slots filled already.
Romanes eunt domus
Haiq343
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2548 Posts
September 10 2013 22:52 GMT
#1845
The idea is the kindle & philo can become something interesting on the 'cheap' if it's sufficiently slot-wastey for solo laners. Also, there's a major difference in support income in pro games (usually much lower kill) than baddie royal rumble games where everyone has 35 assists at the end.
I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination encircles the world. -Einstein
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
September 10 2013 22:53 GMT
#1846
On September 11 2013 07:48 BobMcJohnson wrote:
Are slot inefficient items really that desirable for supports? I mean sure it's a good way to make sure that laners dont buy them, but when I play support I actually feel kinda starved for item slots, once you get boots + sightstone + philostone + green ward + pink ward + kindlegem you actually have your 6 slots filled already.


And then you don't have a slot to hang onto oracles. Have to waste some of it walking from base.
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
September 10 2013 22:53 GMT
#1847
Krepo/doublelift/monte that sounds like an okay analysists table dunno why double is there though lel

http://na.lolesports.com/articles/casters-and-analysts-announced-worlds
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
September 10 2013 22:53 GMT
#1848
Just make greed wards last one minute, pink wards one minute and a half, and make their cost go down to 20g/100g. But you can only purchase 5 at a time (excluding sightstone). Ta-da!
Hey! How you doin'?
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-10 22:57:15
September 10 2013 22:56 GMT
#1849
On September 11 2013 07:53 nafta wrote:
Krepo/doublelift/monte that sounds like an okay analysists table dunno why double is there though lel

http://na.lolesports.com/articles/casters-and-analysts-announced-worlds


Double is there for popularity. And probably to be the comic relief while Monte/Krepo actually analyze stuff.

Double will end up being the Rivington who's there for light-hearted laughs and so new players can listen to someone they understand.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
September 10 2013 22:57 GMT
#1850
Oh what. Riot's website's so weird. I can't login to the EUW - English version, I have to login to the EUW - French, however if I then switch back to the EUW - English I'm connected.
What.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
September 10 2013 23:00 GMT
#1851
On September 11 2013 07:53 nafta wrote:
Krepo/doublelift/monte that sounds like an okay analysists table dunno why double is there though lel

http://na.lolesports.com/articles/casters-and-analysts-announced-worlds

I'm totally fine with this.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
September 10 2013 23:02 GMT
#1852
On September 11 2013 07:11 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2013 06:36 cLutZ wrote:
On September 11 2013 06:23 Amui wrote:
On September 11 2013 05:48 Shikyo wrote:
On September 11 2013 05:15 TheYango wrote:
The DotA discussion with regard to support itemization is a little ironic because I'm certain that getting away from very concentrated farm allocation that was endemic to DotA was one of LoL's initial design goals, and now it feels like with each version DotA shifts towards more toward dispersed gold allocation while over the last season, teams are realizing more and more in LoL how the game mechanics support concentrated farm.

I think that Smite does this much better. Even though in it you get half gold if you don't lasthit and actually can buy an item that makes you gain 100% of the amount of gold someone else gains next to you when they lasthit, there's still slight differences in farm(carries will get more). However, the supports(tanks in that game) still are useful the entire game and playing well as one can definitely make your team win even if you get 0 lasthits throughout the game. That game however has a ton of stacking items that stack on lasthits so you still need to know how to do that if you want to buy those(they generally are very cost-efficient).

I think that the whole "passive gold = less skill" mantra is pretty flawed.


Oh and one thing that would help with 100% farm allocation would indeed be cheap-ish items that have good ACTIVE effects but relatively cost-inefficient stats.


The stacking thing got me thinking. What about machete giving a stacks to the onhit damage(like +3 per monster kill), up to a maximum of like 10 stacks. madreds let's it stack up to 25(with 25 flat), and wriggles 50(with base 50).

IMO, wriggles should give mana sustain somehow in addition to the lifesteal for it to truely be viable. Almost every one of the autoattacking junglers have huge benefits from the 7mp5 of golem stone. It doesn't sound like much, but that is enough for noct for example, to use duskbringer on every camp and never go mana negative. Mana sustain would need to be higher than that for when you're just clearing jungle.


Honestly, the first thing they should do if they want to help junglers is make Machete itself give sustain so you can come out of the jungle at full HP and mana. And, like, that sustain should be free b/c Machete is a bleh item as it is.


I'd rather they dramatically buff the healing/mana return you receive when killing a large creep. That solves the sustain problem without tying it to an item or champion (which can be very overpowered), and increases the value of counter-jungling/controlling the jungle.

If this had been at the start of Season 3 I'd have noted that Riot wanted to avoid making potentially toxic junglers viable (e.g. Eve) by making sustain an issue, but at this point almost any champion can jungle if they get a solid Smiteless leash and rush the second buff, so it's pretty moot unless Riot kills that somehow.


They could make the earlygame jungle worth more EXP/Gold and distribute that more evenly among the camps. Its kind of silly that if you take 2 of the monsters out of the enemy jungle you have basically eliminated 50+% of its value.
Freeeeeeedom
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
September 10 2013 23:04 GMT
#1853
the weakness of farm heavy junglers is in part due to increasing importance on lane dominance in the form of pushing down turrets earlier. the global gold from turrets is pretty big early on.

so balancing jungle playing style should be doen in conjunction with tweaking tower bounty/reward mechanic
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Chexx
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)11232 Posts
September 10 2013 23:07 GMT
#1854
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19718323
Samsung Galaxy Blue rebuilding announced.
WriterFollow me @TL_Chexx
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-10 23:10:36
September 10 2013 23:09 GMT
#1855
On September 11 2013 07:23 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2013 07:05 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On September 11 2013 06:58 kainzero wrote:
If you believe in Yango theory that the meta will favor certain players at certain times of the game's lifespan.


This is true but I also think the truly mechanically gifted players will dominate no matter what.

I agree that there can be players that will be strong regardless, but I also think it has very little to do with mechanics.

The difference between playing TF well and playing Orianna well has very little to do with mechanical proficiency on the heroes. I think Misaya is perfectly fine at playing Orianna mechanically, it's just that his mindset as an AP player simply does not lead to him doing the right thing at the right time.

On some level every player has certain ways they like to play the game, and they will develop an understanding of how to play heroes that fit that playstyle on a subconscious level. "What should I be doing" is something that, at that point, ties into their instinctual understanding of how they are comfortable playing the game.

Obviously a player can learn on a conscious level the nuances of playing a champ outside their playstyle, but no matter what, this will simply never be as natural as their comfort champs.

EDIT: The best analogy I can give for this is learning a new language. Obviously with enough time and practice, anyone can learn a new language, and become fluent in conversing in that new language. But ultimately everyone thinks in their own head in their native language. That's naturally ingrained into you based on when you first learned to speak/read/write, and learning other languages still does not override that voice in your head that speaks in your native language.

This is why I give the EU mids so much respect even still. Despite playing the game a long ass time they're still good and they're still carrying their teams today. Froggen's best champion was nerfed into oblivion and isn't even playable anymore. Alex has always had a crazy champion pool and typically is capable of playing whatever he wants. This is the drop off and difference between them and the rest of the world who hasn't proven they can do that yet. Ambition, Dade, Toyz all seem to have a certain set of champions they are proficient on but can't play all the styles and "OP" champions of a given meta. That's not to say they'll never reach that level. I think Flame proved just how far you can go from being a limited solo queue player without being godlike from the beginning to now becoming incredibly versatile on top of good.

With that said there are players like faker... The thing is how ridiculously good he's become in just such a short time frame at the age of 17. He has no weaknesses, and he has the largest champion pool we've ever seen. People might say he's favored because of the assassin type picks but the thing is he actually mostly plays champions like ryze, syndra, and ezreal in solo queue.
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
September 10 2013 23:13 GMT
#1856
Pool Party Graves released. :3

The one thing I'll say is that TPA were highly underrated going into Worlds due to the overall weakness of their region despite their reign of terror mid, so people predicting 0-2 C9 should be abit more cautious about making such bets.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
September 10 2013 23:13 GMT
#1857
On September 11 2013 08:07 Chexx wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19718323
Samsung Galaxy Blue rebuilding announced.

Flahm, noooooooooo. His great Thresh play was on the the first things I saw when I started watching OGN regularly. But he didn't really blow any minds in OGN Summer. Easyhoon is more surprising, he's solid (from what I remember, it's been a while o_o)
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
September 10 2013 23:15 GMT
#1858
Easyhoon...? The only thing I remember about him is getting dumpstered by faker.
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-10 23:21:15
September 10 2013 23:19 GMT
#1859
On September 11 2013 08:15 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Easyhoon...? The only thing I remember about him is getting dumpstered by faker.

Who doesn't get dumpstered by Faker? lol


Edit: Although maybe I'm thinking more about OGN Spring, MVP Blue was pretty underwhelming in OGN Summer.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35154 Posts
September 10 2013 23:20 GMT
#1860
On September 11 2013 06:17 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2013 06:16 silencefc wrote:
The LCS players who I think are holding their team back:

Reginald


Everyone says this and literally everyone is wrong lol. Reginald is ridiculously important for TSM to function.

Gamecribs isn't real life folks.

He'd also play a lot better if he didn't have to run TSM. According to Dan, Regi does a lot of stuff away from the game that eats up a lot of his time. It probably enhances his "doucheness" due to stress.
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