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On September 27 2013 01:16 TheYango wrote:
NA in general needs a breakdown and reshuffle.
The problem is that currently the way the teams are, the old blood sticks to itself, and the new blood sticks to itself, meaning that the new blood doesn't get to draw on the experience of the older players, while the older players don't get to lean on the talent of the newer players.
The scene develops most healthily if you have teams that are like 2 older players with 3 younger talented players, because that fosters the growth of the younger players in the long run, while utilizing the experience of the older players for shot-calling/drafting in the short term.
#FreeHomme
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On September 27 2013 01:02 Advocado wrote:
Is there a liquid practice group on EU?
Apparently, been tried, never succeeded. Make it happen with me <3
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United States47024 Posts
Ozone's not a good comparison because a lot of that team doesn't even count as "younger players" anymore. Many of them have been in the scene a year+ by now and been to foreign LANs several times.
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On September 27 2013 01:27 The_Unseen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 01:02 Advocado wrote:
Is there a liquid practice group on EU? Apparently, been tried, never succeeded. Make it happen with me <3
Yeah, not enough interest.
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
On September 27 2013 01:29 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 01:27 The_Unseen wrote:On September 27 2013 01:02 Advocado wrote:
Is there a liquid practice group on EU? Apparently, been tried, never succeeded. Make it happen with me <3 Yeah, not enough interest.
Nobody stepped up from the community to organize it. Most TL LoL Staff members are in the US
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If everyone thinks there's no interest but has some of his own... You know the drill
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On September 27 2013 01:16 TheYango wrote:
NA in general needs a breakdown and reshuffle.
The problem is that currently the way the teams are, the old blood sticks to itself, and the new blood sticks to itself, meaning that the new blood doesn't get to draw on the experience of the older players, while the older players don't get to lean on the talent of the newer players.
The scene develops most healthily if you have teams that are like 2 older players with 3 younger talented players, because that fosters the growth of the younger players in the long run, while utilizing the experience of the older players for shot-calling/drafting in the short term.
Which I generally agree with. For the most part, NA teams are simply too static, while the First Generation of LoL pros simply no longer stand out (Regi in particular), and older teams are beginning to lag behind.
That being said, we have perennial CLG reshuffles that never seem to work out, Dignitas' gamble in Kiwikid didn't pay off (and Patoy/Crumbzz is slumping compared to their absolutely fantastic performances Spring Split), and TSM remains tethered to Regi as a core member due to shotcalling/captaincy (which, beyond team ownership, makes him difficult to replace in the dynamic of the team). And Curse is just Curse.
In terms of the newer LCS teams, Coast is wildly inconsistent in their performance, Vulcun, beyond Zuna, faces the problems of terrible shotcalling and post-laning decisionmaking, and C9's weaknesses (Level 1s, Vision Control, and overall strength of the laners) were exposed during the C9-Fnatic game (I'm still salty about Game 3, so anti-climatic), despite their excellent teamfighting and post-laning rotations.
I'm rooting for the return of CoL in the promotions.
I would also argue that "new" vs "old" is a relative term, given the relative length of time that players like mancloud, NintendudeX, and others have been in the scene (at least at an amateur level). However, if you define "old" blood as those long-time players on the Big 3 (+CLG Bench). Additionally, the failures of several attempts at mixing new and old blood (see CLG Black) remains on the minds of everyone.
Going into S4, expecting to see Pobelter enter the scene, probably into the Curse lineup (in addition to other Curse lineup changes), probably a Dignitas shuffle with Kiwikid (or at least a major bootcamp for him) and overall efforts at improving their post-early game decisionmaking (Thrownitass pls). At this point, we're likely to see another major CLG reshuffling of the lineup after its...lackluster performance overall. The return of HotshotGG midlane with his new, signature Leblanc, perhaps (ok, not really)?
On September 27 2013 01:27 The_Unseen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 01:02 Advocado wrote:
Is there a liquid practice group on EU? Apparently, been tried, never succeeded. Make it happen with me <3
Poke Moonbear into doing it.
There are enough EU TLers in any event, just there hasn't been the interest from what I can tell. Stir the pot and start pressing for it, and you might get them going.
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On September 27 2013 01:25 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 01:23 TheYango wrote:On September 27 2013 01:19 Nos- wrote:
Teams are also reluctant to let go of old players even if they underperform, due to their popularity with the audience. I understand the reasoning for it, it just contributes to why NA is uncompetitive. The streamer culture in NA is integral to why LoL was successful and still key to its popularity, but also does inhibit its competitive growth on NA. Partially why I was rather impressed when HSGG stepped down. I'm not his biggest fan, but it takes a fair amount of composure and modesty to step down as the face of an organization for the betterment of the team. Sadly it didn't do enough to help them :\
What I don't understand is he can still be the face of the team even if he's not on the starting roster. Can stream/be doing interviews etc. Liquid from Curse is more exposed and he's just the manager.
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Isn't Atma's + Warmogs the best combo on Nasus ?
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On September 27 2013 01:33 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 01:25 Requizen wrote:On September 27 2013 01:23 TheYango wrote:On September 27 2013 01:19 Nos- wrote:
Teams are also reluctant to let go of old players even if they underperform, due to their popularity with the audience. I understand the reasoning for it, it just contributes to why NA is uncompetitive. The streamer culture in NA is integral to why LoL was successful and still key to its popularity, but also does inhibit its competitive growth on NA. Partially why I was rather impressed when HSGG stepped down. I'm not his biggest fan, but it takes a fair amount of composure and modesty to step down as the face of an organization for the betterment of the team. Sadly it didn't do enough to help them :\ What I don't understand is he can still be the face of the team even if he's not on the starting roster. Can stream/be doing interviews etc. Liquid from Curse is more exposed and he's just the manager.
I said it before and I'll say it again, while HotshotGG wasn't the best player, CLG's problems stemmed primarily from areas that were at most tangentially related to him, and numerous major overhauls of the roster has not helped at all.
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On September 27 2013 01:35 Lylat wrote:
Isn't Atma's + Warmogs the best combo on Nasus ?
Why would you ever think that.
Atma's has been trash for some time, Nasus does really care about the Crit unless he's getting IE or a Zeal item, and even then AD isn't a huge deal for him since his damage comes from his ult and his Q stacks, neither of which scale from AD.
Warmog's isn't a great health item right now, much better choices in SV/Sunfire/etc. Besides, Nasus cares more about resists than health considering his free health from ult and regen from passive.
I can't think of any champs that go AtMogs anymore.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 27 2013 01:32 Lord Tolkien wrote:
That being said, we have perennial CLG reshuffles that never seem to work out, Dignitas' gamble in Kiwikid didn't pay off (and Patoy/Crumbzz is slumping compared to their absolutely fantastic performances Spring Split), and TSM remains tethered to Regi as a core member due to shotcalling/captaincy (which, beyond team ownership, makes him difficult to replace in the dynamic of the team). And Curse is just Curse.
It's not the same to slot in 1 new player because you're retaining the old blood on core roles.
The idea is that the older less talented players have to have to step down to less influential, more shot-calling focused roles. If you're only swapping in 1 new player, most of the old blood are retaining their old roles and are still sucking at them.
On September 27 2013 01:32 Lord Tolkien wrote:
I would also argue that "new" vs "old" is a relative term, given the relative length of time that players like mancloud, NintendudeX, and others have been in the scene (at least at an amateur level). However, if you define "old" blood as those long-time players on the Big 3 (+CLG Bench). Additionally, the failures of several attempts at mixing new and old blood (see CLG Black) remains on the minds of everyone.
If you haven't been on a top tier pro team, it doesn't count as being "old blood". Being on mediocre/mid-tier/semi-pro teams barely counts because playing against amateur teams builds up none of the experience that is actually unique to that top level of play (how to draft against teams that actually know what the fuck they're doing, mid-lategame decision-making, etc.).
None of the NA teams have the guts to tear themselves down entirely and rebuild.
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On September 27 2013 01:39 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 01:35 Lylat wrote:
Isn't Atma's + Warmogs the best combo on Nasus ? Why would you ever think that. Atma's has been trash for some time, Nasus does really care about the Crit unless he's getting IE or a Zeal item, and even then AD isn't a huge deal for him since his damage comes from his ult and his Q stacks, neither of which scale from AD. Warmog's isn't a great health item right now, much better choices in SV/Sunfire/etc. Besides, Nasus cares more about resists than health considering his free health from ult and regen from passive. I can't think of any champs that go AtMogs anymore.
I'm sure Atma's + Warmog + IE is legit on Nasus
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What you should be doing first on Nasus is maxing CDR, no question about it. Warmogs+Atmas has no CDR. Terrible.
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On September 27 2013 01:40 Lylat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 01:39 Requizen wrote:On September 27 2013 01:35 Lylat wrote:
Isn't Atma's + Warmogs the best combo on Nasus ? Why would you ever think that. Atma's has been trash for some time, Nasus does really care about the Crit unless he's getting IE or a Zeal item, and even then AD isn't a huge deal for him since his damage comes from his ult and his Q stacks, neither of which scale from AD. Warmog's isn't a great health item right now, much better choices in SV/Sunfire/etc. Besides, Nasus cares more about resists than health considering his free health from ult and regen from passive. I can't think of any champs that go AtMogs anymore. I'm sure Atma's + Warmog + IE is legit on Nasus
oic u fahnny
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On September 27 2013 01:40 TheYango wrote:
None of the NA teams have the guts to tear themselves down entirely and rebuild.
I wouldn't say guts, insomuch as the power dynamic of the teams lie moreso in the players than the sponsoring organizations and managers, and part of this comes from CLG/TSM being breakout player-based organizations, and the growth of the NA scene as a result of streaming.
For an organization like, say, Dignitas, why risk radically reshuffling your roster, when the amount of streaming revenue/exposure that popular players like Scarra or Qtpie generate, and the fanbase it builds, skews the risk/reward of such decisions decidedly into the "risk" territory.
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United States47024 Posts
I guess that's closer to what I mean. Being bad hasn't stopped NA teams from getting viewers/fans, so why stop now?
As long as Riot plays favorites for you like they've done so to date, you have nothing to worry about.
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On September 27 2013 01:36 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 01:33 Numy wrote:On September 27 2013 01:25 Requizen wrote:On September 27 2013 01:23 TheYango wrote:On September 27 2013 01:19 Nos- wrote:
Teams are also reluctant to let go of old players even if they underperform, due to their popularity with the audience. I understand the reasoning for it, it just contributes to why NA is uncompetitive. The streamer culture in NA is integral to why LoL was successful and still key to its popularity, but also does inhibit its competitive growth on NA. Partially why I was rather impressed when HSGG stepped down. I'm not his biggest fan, but it takes a fair amount of composure and modesty to step down as the face of an organization for the betterment of the team. Sadly it didn't do enough to help them :\ What I don't understand is he can still be the face of the team even if he's not on the starting roster. Can stream/be doing interviews etc. Liquid from Curse is more exposed and he's just the manager. I said it before and I'll say it again, while HotshotGG wasn't the best player, CLG's problems stemmed primarily from areas that were at most tangentially related to him, and numerous major overhauls of the roster has not helped at all.
Well, when you swap in Nien into top lane, you're going to have a bad time. I bet if HSGG was back for the end of season 3, CLG would have went a silly good winning spree. SV so broken, just have him play Nasus 100% of games, ezpz, or with new triforce, just play nidalee.
On September 27 2013 01:47 TheYango wrote:
I guess that's closer to what I mean. Being bad hasn't stopped NA teams from getting viewers/fans, so why stop now?
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Basically it's close to how EU LCS viewership has been wondering whether SK would oust Ocelote or not if they end up relegated because of his underwhelming performances.
(Losing hyrqbot and Kev1n is going to hurt them big time tho, Kev1n was pretty consistent and hyrqbot was doing a good job, even if they retain Candypanda.)
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On September 27 2013 01:36 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 01:33 Numy wrote:On September 27 2013 01:25 Requizen wrote:On September 27 2013 01:23 TheYango wrote:On September 27 2013 01:19 Nos- wrote:
Teams are also reluctant to let go of old players even if they underperform, due to their popularity with the audience. I understand the reasoning for it, it just contributes to why NA is uncompetitive. The streamer culture in NA is integral to why LoL was successful and still key to its popularity, but also does inhibit its competitive growth on NA. Partially why I was rather impressed when HSGG stepped down. I'm not his biggest fan, but it takes a fair amount of composure and modesty to step down as the face of an organization for the betterment of the team. Sadly it didn't do enough to help them :\ What I don't understand is he can still be the face of the team even if he's not on the starting roster. Can stream/be doing interviews etc. Liquid from Curse is more exposed and he's just the manager. I said it before and I'll say it again, while HotshotGG wasn't the best player, CLG's problems stemmed primarily from areas that were at most tangentially related to him, and numerous major overhauls of the roster has not helped at all.
Don't know how that has to do with what I said but I'll bite. CLGs problems pretty much all stem from Doublelift and Chauster still being on the roster. I don't know enough of double to assess if they could keep him and still be able to fix their problems but Chauster has to leave either way
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EPT
