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On September 24 2013 13:22 dae wrote:
Hm... For the honor system, what would it be like if people could get an extra 5-10 ip for honoring at least 1 person after each game(or each n games)? (5-10 no matter how many people you honor). This way it gives an incentive to use the system, as well as trying to be the most honorable person in said game.
I just don't see the honor system ever being heavily used without some incentive for those honoring.
I would probably use it more if there was a "batch" honor thing. That way I can honor my whole team with 2 clicks instead of having to click these tiny icons for everybody.
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On September 24 2013 13:22 dae wrote:
Hm... For the honor system, what would it be like if people could get an extra 5-10 ip for honoring at least 1 person after each game(or each n games)? (5-10 no matter how many people you honor). This way it gives an incentive to use the system, as well as trying to be the most honorable person in said game.
I just don't see the honor system ever being heavily used without some incentive for those honoring.
Probably better if they went back to giving IP for using the tribunal. That system seems far more important.
The biggest flaw in my LOL experience remains people who "Call" positions during champ select, then either troll when I pick that place before them, dodge, or feed when I let them have what they want. And the only way to fix that is to crack down harder on the pregame shenanagins, which I have always said/thought/felt/etc are worse than ingame trolling (outside of intentional feeding, which results in bans anyways).
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Bischu playing Quantic and pobelter on his stream
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Dyrus Faker Turtle Zion and Aphro on stream... was an interesting game just now.
Elise (w/ a weird no AP penetration tank build), Karma mid, Riven top, Support thresh, Wildturtle as Sivir.
Some challenger players don't even care lol. Dyrus didn't have a build set up before he played Elise. And I'm pretty sure Faker is just picking what he feels like at this point.
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On September 24 2013 14:21 obesechicken13 wrote:
Dyrus Faker Turtle Zion and Aphro on stream... was an interesting game just now.
Elise (w/ a weird no AP penetration tank build), Karma mid, Riven top, Support thresh, Wildturtle as Sivir.
Some challenger players don't even care lol. Dyrus didn't have a build set up before he played Elise. And I'm pretty sure Faker is just picking what he feels like at this point.
That double pen into sunfire tank build is 100% standard on elise? (top lane at least)
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On September 24 2013 14:25 dae wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 14:21 obesechicken13 wrote:
Dyrus Faker Turtle Zion and Aphro on stream... was an interesting game just now.
Elise (w/ a weird no AP penetration tank build), Karma mid, Riven top, Support thresh, Wildturtle as Sivir.
Some challenger players don't even care lol. Dyrus didn't have a build set up before he played Elise. And I'm pretty sure Faker is just picking what he feels like at this point. That double pen into sunfire tank build is 100% standard on elise? (top lane at least)
Maybe. Don't you tend to get some AP in the build though?
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On September 24 2013 14:21 obesechicken13 wrote:
Dyrus Faker Turtle Zion and Aphro on stream... was an interesting game just now.
Elise (w/ a weird no AP penetration tank build), Karma mid, Riven top, Support thresh, Wildturtle as Sivir.
Some challenger players don't even care lol. Dyrus didn't have a build set up before he played Elise. And I'm pretty sure Faker is just picking what he feels like at this point.
Watching dyrus play ad carry is hilarious. ADC and top players just don't overlap well at all.
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On September 24 2013 13:34 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 13:22 dae wrote:
Hm... For the honor system, what would it be like if people could get an extra 5-10 ip for honoring at least 1 person after each game(or each n games)? (5-10 no matter how many people you honor). This way it gives an incentive to use the system, as well as trying to be the most honorable person in said game.
I just don't see the honor system ever being heavily used without some incentive for those honoring. Probably better if they went back to giving IP for using the tribunal. That system seems far more important. The biggest flaw in my LOL experience remains people who "Call" positions during champ select, then either troll when I pick that place before them, dodge, or feed when I let them have what they want. And the only way to fix that is to crack down harder on the pregame shenanagins, which I have always said/thought/felt/etc are worse than ingame trolling (outside of intentional feeding, which results in bans anyways).
I don't think they have a huge overhead of tribunal cases, since when i do some i get "the tribunal is out of cases" at least from time to time, so there is no reason to add IP incentives for that, considering that they affect the system negatively through people who just want those IP and click punish on every case.
And yes, the fact that pre- and postgame chats not being part of the tribunal is rather annoying, since that leads to people going "mid or feed" in pregame chat, then picking something really troll, but make sure they don't say something suspicious during the game in the hopes of tricking the system. If you could see the pregame chat in the tribunal and report on dodges, then i am pretty sure pregame would be a lot less annoying.
The honor system is more or less a failed experiment in my opinion, mostly because the whole system is completely inconsequential and doesn't actually do anything but show a number. In the first few weeks it kinda worked, but then everyone noticed that honor doesn't actually do anything, and people started getting to lazy to use the system.
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Did some quick math on Dcap (3300g) vs Void Staff + Blasting Wand (3155g) for Nidalee spears.
Both builds had AP quints, scaling AP blues, standard masteries, a Dring, Grail, Sorcs and a blue pot (might be inspired from a worlds game, who knows ^^). Level 15 for the scaling masteries/runes and bluepot calcs.
To my surprise, the Voidstaff + Blasting Wand build does more damage to anyone with 37 or more MR.
Next scenario: Dcap + Blasting Wand + Amp tome (4595g) vs Voidstaff + Blasting Wand + NLR (4755g)
Dring sold, blue pot ran out, baron buff picked up. Now level 17.
Voidstaff wins if targets have 43 or more MR.
Pretty interesting since pretty much anyone has way more MR than that except ADCs and supports. Add in a aegis/locket and everyone should have atleast 50+ MR.
Lux for example is WAY more skewed towards void staff than Nidalee since so much of Lux's burst is from base damage + Show Spoiler +A level 13 Lux needs 510~ AP for her scaling damage to match her base damage on her combo, a lvl 18 Lux needs 580~. Nidalee spears only need 355~ AP for the scaling part to match her base damage
Conclusion: Anyone who might want to go Grail -> Dcap -> Voidstaff should consider Grail -> Voidstaff ->Dcap instead, depending on the champions ratios and base damage (and ofcourse how much MR the enemy team has).
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On September 24 2013 15:35 zodde wrote:Did some quick math on Dcap (3300g) vs Void Staff + Blasting Wand (3155g) for Nidalee spears. Both builds had AP quints, scaling AP blues, standard masteries, a Dring, Grail, Sorcs and a blue pot (might be inspired from a worlds game, who knows ^^). Level 15 for the scaling masteries/runes and bluepot calcs. To my surprise, the Voidstaff + Blasting Wand build does more damage to anyone with 37 or more MR. Next scenario: Dcap + Blasting Wand + Amp tome (4595g) vs Voidstaff + Blasting Wand + NLR (4755g) Dring sold, blue pot ran out, baron buff picked up. Now level 17. Voidstaff wins if targets have 43 or more MR. Pretty interesting since pretty much anyone has way more MR than that except ADCs and supports. Add in a aegis/locket and everyone should have atleast 50+ MR. Lux for example is WAY more skewed towards void staff than Nidalee since so much of Lux's burst is from base damage + Show Spoiler +A level 13 Lux needs 510~ AP for her scaling damage to match her base damage on her combo, a lvl 18 Lux needs 580~. Nidalee spears only need 355~ AP for the scaling part to match her base damage , even with just one passive proc (from ult), her Q-E-R combo will pretty much always do more damage with a Grail -> Voidstaff build instead of a Grail -> Dcap build. Conclusion: Anyone who might want to go Grail -> Dcap -> Voidstaff should consider Grail -> Voidstaff ->Dcap instead, depending on the champions ratios and base damage (and ofcourse how much MR the enemy team has).
Been like this for some time. Dcap has better scaling for heals/shields though.
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On September 24 2013 15:39 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 15:35 zodde wrote:Did some quick math on Dcap (3300g) vs Void Staff + Blasting Wand (3155g) for Nidalee spears. Both builds had AP quints, scaling AP blues, standard masteries, a Dring, Grail, Sorcs and a blue pot (might be inspired from a worlds game, who knows ^^). Level 15 for the scaling masteries/runes and bluepot calcs. To my surprise, the Voidstaff + Blasting Wand build does more damage to anyone with 37 or more MR. Next scenario: Dcap + Blasting Wand + Amp tome (4595g) vs Voidstaff + Blasting Wand + NLR (4755g) Dring sold, blue pot ran out, baron buff picked up. Now level 17. Voidstaff wins if targets have 43 or more MR. Pretty interesting since pretty much anyone has way more MR than that except ADCs and supports. Add in a aegis/locket and everyone should have atleast 50+ MR. Lux for example is WAY more skewed towards void staff than Nidalee since so much of Lux's burst is from base damage + Show Spoiler +A level 13 Lux needs 510~ AP for her scaling damage to match her base damage on her combo, a lvl 18 Lux needs 580~. Nidalee spears only need 355~ AP for the scaling part to match her base damage , even with just one passive proc (from ult), her Q-E-R combo will pretty much always do more damage with a Grail -> Voidstaff build instead of a Grail -> Dcap build. Conclusion: Anyone who might want to go Grail -> Dcap -> Voidstaff should consider Grail -> Voidstaff ->Dcap instead, depending on the champions ratios and base damage (and ofcourse how much MR the enemy team has). Been like this for some time. Dcap has better scaling for heals/shields though.
I understand why Riot want to nerf LW/Voidstaff though. They should find some way to make them just as strong versus armor/mr stacking, and at the same time take away some of the power they provide vs low resist targets.
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On September 24 2013 15:35 zodde wrote:Did some quick math on Dcap (3300g) vs Void Staff + Blasting Wand (3155g) for Nidalee spears. Both builds had AP quints, scaling AP blues, standard masteries, a Dring, Grail, Sorcs and a blue pot (might be inspired from a worlds game, who knows ^^). Level 15 for the scaling masteries/runes and bluepot calcs. To my surprise, the Voidstaff + Blasting Wand build does more damage to anyone with 37 or more MR. Next scenario: Dcap + Blasting Wand + Amp tome (4595g) vs Voidstaff + Blasting Wand + NLR (4755g) Dring sold, blue pot ran out, baron buff picked up. Now level 17. Voidstaff wins if targets have 43 or more MR. Pretty interesting since pretty much anyone has way more MR than that except ADCs and supports. Add in a aegis/locket and everyone should have atleast 50+ MR. Lux for example is WAY more skewed towards void staff than Nidalee since so much of Lux's burst is from base damage + Show Spoiler +A level 13 Lux needs 510~ AP for her scaling damage to match her base damage on her combo, a lvl 18 Lux needs 580~. Nidalee spears only need 355~ AP for the scaling part to match her base damage , even with just one passive proc (from ult), her Q-E-R combo will pretty much always do more damage with a Grail -> Voidstaff build instead of a Grail -> Dcap build. Conclusion: Anyone who might want to go Grail -> Dcap -> Voidstaff should consider Grail -> Voidstaff ->Dcap instead, depending on the champions ratios and base damage (and ofcourse how much MR the enemy team has).
Nidalee has a heal and other AP ratios in cat form.
Lux has a shield that scales with AP but not mpen.
AP still lets you clear.
Builds do different things. Long ago most Lux builds were designed to one shot creep waves while doing decent burst damage to champions. Now it's more about sustained and liberal usage of mana. Take all variables into consideration.
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On September 24 2013 15:46 zodde wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 15:39 cLutZ wrote:On September 24 2013 15:35 zodde wrote:Did some quick math on Dcap (3300g) vs Void Staff + Blasting Wand (3155g) for Nidalee spears. Both builds had AP quints, scaling AP blues, standard masteries, a Dring, Grail, Sorcs and a blue pot (might be inspired from a worlds game, who knows ^^). Level 15 for the scaling masteries/runes and bluepot calcs. To my surprise, the Voidstaff + Blasting Wand build does more damage to anyone with 37 or more MR. Next scenario: Dcap + Blasting Wand + Amp tome (4595g) vs Voidstaff + Blasting Wand + NLR (4755g) Dring sold, blue pot ran out, baron buff picked up. Now level 17. Voidstaff wins if targets have 43 or more MR. Pretty interesting since pretty much anyone has way more MR than that except ADCs and supports. Add in a aegis/locket and everyone should have atleast 50+ MR. Lux for example is WAY more skewed towards void staff than Nidalee since so much of Lux's burst is from base damage + Show Spoiler +A level 13 Lux needs 510~ AP for her scaling damage to match her base damage on her combo, a lvl 18 Lux needs 580~. Nidalee spears only need 355~ AP for the scaling part to match her base damage , even with just one passive proc (from ult), her Q-E-R combo will pretty much always do more damage with a Grail -> Voidstaff build instead of a Grail -> Dcap build. Conclusion: Anyone who might want to go Grail -> Dcap -> Voidstaff should consider Grail -> Voidstaff ->Dcap instead, depending on the champions ratios and base damage (and ofcourse how much MR the enemy team has). Been like this for some time. Dcap has better scaling for heals/shields though. I understand why Riot want to nerf LW/Voidstaff though. They should find some way to make them just as strong versus armor/mr stacking, and at the same time take away some of the power they provide vs low resist targets.
If that's the case, revert the arpen/mpen formula so that %pen is calculated after flat pen.
HOWEVER, that significantly nerfs flat pen.
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On September 24 2013 15:46 zodde wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 15:39 cLutZ wrote:On September 24 2013 15:35 zodde wrote:Did some quick math on Dcap (3300g) vs Void Staff + Blasting Wand (3155g) for Nidalee spears. Both builds had AP quints, scaling AP blues, standard masteries, a Dring, Grail, Sorcs and a blue pot (might be inspired from a worlds game, who knows ^^). Level 15 for the scaling masteries/runes and bluepot calcs. To my surprise, the Voidstaff + Blasting Wand build does more damage to anyone with 37 or more MR. Next scenario: Dcap + Blasting Wand + Amp tome (4595g) vs Voidstaff + Blasting Wand + NLR (4755g) Dring sold, blue pot ran out, baron buff picked up. Now level 17. Voidstaff wins if targets have 43 or more MR. Pretty interesting since pretty much anyone has way more MR than that except ADCs and supports. Add in a aegis/locket and everyone should have atleast 50+ MR. Lux for example is WAY more skewed towards void staff than Nidalee since so much of Lux's burst is from base damage + Show Spoiler +A level 13 Lux needs 510~ AP for her scaling damage to match her base damage on her combo, a lvl 18 Lux needs 580~. Nidalee spears only need 355~ AP for the scaling part to match her base damage , even with just one passive proc (from ult), her Q-E-R combo will pretty much always do more damage with a Grail -> Voidstaff build instead of a Grail -> Dcap build. Conclusion: Anyone who might want to go Grail -> Dcap -> Voidstaff should consider Grail -> Voidstaff ->Dcap instead, depending on the champions ratios and base damage (and ofcourse how much MR the enemy team has). Been like this for some time. Dcap has better scaling for heals/shields though. I understand why Riot want to nerf LW/Voidstaff though. They should find some way to make them just as strong versus armor/mr stacking, and at the same time take away some of the power they provide vs low resist targets.
They pretty much want to make health stacking better against AP/AD, is what the change will do. I mean realistically speaking, almost no one builds Voidstaff as a 2nd item, like 99% of the time. LW as 2nd item sometimes, but usually multiplicative scaling of crit or AS is usually better as a 2nd item.
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On September 24 2013 16:25 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 15:46 zodde wrote:On September 24 2013 15:39 cLutZ wrote:On September 24 2013 15:35 zodde wrote:Did some quick math on Dcap (3300g) vs Void Staff + Blasting Wand (3155g) for Nidalee spears. Both builds had AP quints, scaling AP blues, standard masteries, a Dring, Grail, Sorcs and a blue pot (might be inspired from a worlds game, who knows ^^). Level 15 for the scaling masteries/runes and bluepot calcs. To my surprise, the Voidstaff + Blasting Wand build does more damage to anyone with 37 or more MR. Next scenario: Dcap + Blasting Wand + Amp tome (4595g) vs Voidstaff + Blasting Wand + NLR (4755g) Dring sold, blue pot ran out, baron buff picked up. Now level 17. Voidstaff wins if targets have 43 or more MR. Pretty interesting since pretty much anyone has way more MR than that except ADCs and supports. Add in a aegis/locket and everyone should have atleast 50+ MR. Lux for example is WAY more skewed towards void staff than Nidalee since so much of Lux's burst is from base damage + Show Spoiler +A level 13 Lux needs 510~ AP for her scaling damage to match her base damage on her combo, a lvl 18 Lux needs 580~. Nidalee spears only need 355~ AP for the scaling part to match her base damage , even with just one passive proc (from ult), her Q-E-R combo will pretty much always do more damage with a Grail -> Voidstaff build instead of a Grail -> Dcap build. Conclusion: Anyone who might want to go Grail -> Dcap -> Voidstaff should consider Grail -> Voidstaff ->Dcap instead, depending on the champions ratios and base damage (and ofcourse how much MR the enemy team has). Been like this for some time. Dcap has better scaling for heals/shields though. I understand why Riot want to nerf LW/Voidstaff though. They should find some way to make them just as strong versus armor/mr stacking, and at the same time take away some of the power they provide vs low resist targets. They pretty much want to make health stacking better against AP/AD, is what the change will do. I mean realistically speaking, almost no one builds Voidstaff as a 2nd item, like 99% of the time. LW as 2nd item sometimes, but usually multiplicative scaling of crit or AS is usually better as a 2nd item.
The issue with Riot's view point though (of wanting more people to stack HP than MR/DEF) is that there's a fair number of champions and items that do dmg. based on HP ratios (BotRK, Liandry's Torment, some of Elise's attacks, etc.) and in late game fights, especially on ADCs with BotRK, they'll just shred through a meatshield heavy person without as much MR/DEF, and any low HP champ (like other AP/AD champs) will still die as fast as they do.
I mean, maybe there's a "perfect ratio" of HP - MR - DEF that'll let various champs be nice tanks/walls to survive those first few seconds of a team fight to get their ult off, or get to the back line and damage the ADCs with that assumed new system in place. But right now, the best items for being a tanky champ are Sunfire Cape + Spirit Visage. After those two are built, I feel like the tanky person is free to do whatever they want with their items, so long as they are still being helpful to the team (wards, Oracles, etc.)
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Ultimate goal with resist/pen changes I think would be to decrease the effectiveness of rushed eHP items(how many times have you seen a renekton with sunfire at like 15 minutes just dive 1v3/4/5 and just burn down the whole team before flashing out at a hundred HP), and keep a moderate powerlevel, while increasing the efficacy of resists against lategame penetration(think cleaver shred+skill shred+LW, turns a 300 armor bruiser into a sponge).
Definitely would require some creative math, and definitely numbers changes.
I still think jungle changes are going to have more impact on the game going into season 4 though.
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On September 24 2013 16:36 Amui wrote:
Ultimate goal with resist/pen changes I think would be to decrease the effectiveness of rushed eHP items(how many times have you seen a renekton with sunfire at like 15 minutes just dive 1v3/4/5 and just burn down the whole team before flashing out at a hundred HP), and keep a moderate powerlevel, while increasing the efficacy of resists against lategame penetration(think cleaver shred+skill shred+LW, turns a 300 armor bruiser into a sponge).
Definitely would require some creative math, and definitely numbers changes.
I still think jungle changes are going to have more impact on the game going into season 4 though.
The problem with sunfire is that it offers both, plus splitpush utility.
Would love to have old warmogs back, the one where it scaled with getting creeps, and all.
Also, aside from the bonkers triforce Corki, I'd like to see some damage increases for ADCs across the board, if LW is going to be nerfed.
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On September 24 2013 16:36 Amui wrote:
Ultimate goal with resist/pen changes I think would be to decrease the effectiveness of rushed eHP items(how many times have you seen a renekton with sunfire at like 15 minutes just dive 1v3/4/5 and just burn down the whole team before flashing out at a hundred HP), and keep a moderate powerlevel, while increasing the efficacy of resists against lategame penetration(think cleaver shred+skill shred+LW, turns a 300 armor bruiser into a sponge).
Definitely would require some creative math, and definitely numbers changes.
I still think jungle changes are going to have more impact on the game going into season 4 though.
Have they said what the changes will be though for season 4, or is this just all speculation of what we (as fans/experienced LoL players) would like to see in s4.
On September 24 2013 16:40 wei2coolman wrote:
Also, aside from the bonkers triforce Corki, I'd like to see some damage increases for ADCs across the board, if LW is going to be nerfed.
The best way to nerf the new Triforce is to make it that the move speed gained from new Phage is cut in half for ranged attacks, so it's 10 on hit instead of 20, and 30 on kill instead of 60.
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Riot seems to like HP, AP, and AD more than Def, MR, CDR, and AS (crit is somewhere but they don't really make changes or comments).
Now, hating Def/MR makes sense, because if either is good, then non-multiplicative scalers of that damage type get screwed very easily (like you used to be able to do vs. Garen/Talon/Etc). On the other hand, hating AS/CDR (as opposed to AD/AP) makes no sense because those require you to hit multiple skills/autos to do damage. The only problem is buffing CDR lets people use tank skills more often (aka league of Visage), but that isn't so bad if they stop putting huge CDR numbers everywhere.
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EPT
