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Before the rebalancing, Q was situational and E first the standard build, and after that Q progressively became standard while E is more situational, but that's also why I said that teams choose depending on needs (I'd argue that Q first is better for shoving and pressuring at tower while E first is better for skirmishing, which is further compounded by their respective first items).
Since the 2v1 and "fast push" playstyle, along with the objective control (and Varus himself not being as good in a skirmish/pick comp as somebody like either Ashe or Corki) is more popular, there aren't too many reasons to keep going E first though.
And I agree that if you went BT first you shouldn't build a BotRK, but I don't think I've said it anywhere in my post?
On September 24 2013 06:37 Ryuu314 wrote:
Varus also doesn't push particularly hard (Corki, Caitlyn)
He has 2 AoE spells and his Q does almost as much damage as Cait, while has also has higher than average range, he isn't a bad pusher by any means. Oo
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On September 24 2013 06:37 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 05:39 cLutZ wrote:On September 24 2013 05:32 Dark_Chill wrote:
Wait, how is Varus outclassed? He still has a really good teamfight ult, decent burst, good laning... I'm just not seeing how he falls behind others. Varus is good, but I think his weakness is being boring. When he was released I called him "milktoast" and that is what he is. Plus his "ideal" builds are not TF or Bork or IE first. Actually, I think it's more due to his lack of mobility (Corki, Ez) along with his inability to duel the popular assassins (Corki, Vayne). Ahri, Zed, Fizz can all very easily kill him in teamfights. Varus also doesn't push particularly hard (Corki, Caitlyn) nor does he really "hyper-carry" (Vayne, Kog, Twitch). On top of that, if you want a utility AD carry, you'd probably rather just pick Ashe. He was really popular before all the currently popular assassins became must pick/bans cause his mobility wasn't that big an issue.
You kinda just described why he is boring.
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On September 24 2013 07:21 Alaric wrote:Before the rebalancing, Q was situational and E first the standard build, and after that Q progressively became standard while E is more situational, but that's also why I said that teams choose depending on needs (I'd argue that Q first is better for shoving and pressuring at tower while E first is better for skirmishing, which is further compounded by their respective first items). Since the 2v1 and "fast push" playstyle, along with the objective control (and Varus himself not being as good in a skirmish/pick comp as somebody like either Ashe or Corki) is more popular, there aren't too many reasons to keep going E first though. And I agree that if you went BT first you shouldn't build a BotRK, but I don't think I've said it anywhere in my post? Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 06:37 Ryuu314 wrote:
Varus also doesn't push particularly hard (Corki, Caitlyn) He has 2 AoE spells and his Q does almost as much damage as Cait, while has also has higher than average range, he isn't a bad pusher by any means. Oo
You're completely wrong.
His Q does WAY more damage than a Cait Q. The scaling man...
Harder to hit, though.
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How to play Shyvana top?
I like Shyv so I've been trying her up there. I have no idea what I'm doing but it's fun. I don't know what to max and I just build hydra/sunfire so that I can destroy creeps, lol.
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I think you max W. If they try to fight you press W and stick to them and they will either flee like little girl or burn to death. IIRC top shy was played competitively somewhere and the guy rushed botrk for the cc, as shy you don't really need extra creep death.
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On September 24 2013 08:06 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 07:21 Alaric wrote:Before the rebalancing, Q was situational and E first the standard build, and after that Q progressively became standard while E is more situational, but that's also why I said that teams choose depending on needs (I'd argue that Q first is better for shoving and pressuring at tower while E first is better for skirmishing, which is further compounded by their respective first items). Since the 2v1 and "fast push" playstyle, along with the objective control (and Varus himself not being as good in a skirmish/pick comp as somebody like either Ashe or Corki) is more popular, there aren't too many reasons to keep going E first though. And I agree that if you went BT first you shouldn't build a BotRK, but I don't think I've said it anywhere in my post? On September 24 2013 06:37 Ryuu314 wrote:
Varus also doesn't push particularly hard (Corki, Caitlyn) He has 2 AoE spells and his Q does almost as much damage as Cait, while has also has higher than average range, he isn't a bad pusher by any means. Oo You're completely wrong. His Q does WAY more damage than a Cait Q. The scaling man... Harder to hit, though.
It falls off harder and has a lower floor, so if you're trying to Q a minion wave you should do more or less as much damage as Cait on a single wave (and even less on a bigger group of minions), which is the point of pushing, right?
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On September 24 2013 08:59 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 08:06 Lord Tolkien wrote:On September 24 2013 07:21 Alaric wrote:Before the rebalancing, Q was situational and E first the standard build, and after that Q progressively became standard while E is more situational, but that's also why I said that teams choose depending on needs (I'd argue that Q first is better for shoving and pressuring at tower while E first is better for skirmishing, which is further compounded by their respective first items). Since the 2v1 and "fast push" playstyle, along with the objective control (and Varus himself not being as good in a skirmish/pick comp as somebody like either Ashe or Corki) is more popular, there aren't too many reasons to keep going E first though. And I agree that if you went BT first you shouldn't build a BotRK, but I don't think I've said it anywhere in my post? On September 24 2013 06:37 Ryuu314 wrote:
Varus also doesn't push particularly hard (Corki, Caitlyn) He has 2 AoE spells and his Q does almost as much damage as Cait, while has also has higher than average range, he isn't a bad pusher by any means. Oo You're completely wrong. His Q does WAY more damage than a Cait Q. The scaling man... Harder to hit, though. It falls off harder and has a lower floor, so if you're trying to Q a minion wave you should do more or less as much damage as Cait on a single wave (and even less on a bigger group of minions), which is the point of pushing, right?
Varus is a far better pusher than cait. His Q does more damage than cait's Q in almost every instance, so i'm not sure what you're talking about when you say it falls off harder (it does not). It literally outclasses cait's Q in every way except for cooldown (2 seconds longer when maxed) and the floor (33%, which is probably close to cait's 50% damage). Furthermore, not only does his Q do more damage, but he has another AoE ability on top of that. Varus may actually be the best AD for waveclearing behind sivir and maybe graves.
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On September 24 2013 08:29 phyvo wrote:
I think you max W. If they try to fight you press W and stick to them and they will either flee like little girl or burn to death. IIRC top shy was played competitively somewhere and the guy rushed botrk for the cc, as shy you don't really need extra creep death.
Top shy is played competitively by Royal's Godlike. I looked up the game in which he played it recently (China Worlds qualifiers, Royal vs iG Game 1) and he does max W, goes cutlass into spirit visage.
They also lost.
Hmmm.
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On September 24 2013 09:18 Perplex wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 08:59 Alaric wrote:On September 24 2013 08:06 Lord Tolkien wrote:On September 24 2013 07:21 Alaric wrote:Before the rebalancing, Q was situational and E first the standard build, and after that Q progressively became standard while E is more situational, but that's also why I said that teams choose depending on needs (I'd argue that Q first is better for shoving and pressuring at tower while E first is better for skirmishing, which is further compounded by their respective first items). Since the 2v1 and "fast push" playstyle, along with the objective control (and Varus himself not being as good in a skirmish/pick comp as somebody like either Ashe or Corki) is more popular, there aren't too many reasons to keep going E first though. And I agree that if you went BT first you shouldn't build a BotRK, but I don't think I've said it anywhere in my post? On September 24 2013 06:37 Ryuu314 wrote:
Varus also doesn't push particularly hard (Corki, Caitlyn) He has 2 AoE spells and his Q does almost as much damage as Cait, while has also has higher than average range, he isn't a bad pusher by any means. Oo You're completely wrong. His Q does WAY more damage than a Cait Q. The scaling man... Harder to hit, though. It falls off harder and has a lower floor, so if you're trying to Q a minion wave you should do more or less as much damage as Cait on a single wave (and even less on a bigger group of minions), which is the point of pushing, right? Varus is a far better pusher than cait. His Q does more damage than cait's Q in almost every instance, so i'm not sure what you're talking about when you say it falls off harder (it does not). It literally outclasses cait's Q in every way except for cooldown (2 seconds longer when maxed) and the floor (33%, which is probably close to cait's 50% damage). Furthermore, not only does his Q do more damage, but he has another AoE ability on top of that.
He has 2 AoE spells and his Q does almost as much damage as Cait
I didn't even post a 5k characters brickwall this time, why can't people read me? ;_;
I said exactly that: he's got 2 AoE spells and the nuking one does almost as much as Cait's alone, so he pushes harder. Zzz.
+ Show Spoiler [wiki sources] +Varus:
Max Damage: 15 / 70 / 125 / 180 / 235 (+ 160% AD) dropping by 15%/target down to 33%
Max Diminished: 5 / 23.3 / 41.7 / 60 / 78.3 (+ 53% AD)
Caitlyn:
Physical damage: 20 / 60 / 100 / 140 / 180 (+ 130% AD) dropping by 10%/target down to 50%
Minimum damage: 10 / 30 / 50 / 70 / 90 (+ 65% AD)
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On September 24 2013 09:23 kainzero wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 08:29 phyvo wrote:
I think you max W. If they try to fight you press W and stick to them and they will either flee like little girl or burn to death. IIRC top shy was played competitively somewhere and the guy rushed botrk for the cc, as shy you don't really need extra creep death. Top shy is played competitively by Royal's Godlike. I looked up the game in which he played it recently (China Worlds qualifiers, Royal vs iG Game 1) and he does max W, goes cutlass into spirit visage. They also lost. Hmmm.
Reverse the item order so you get something defensive first then go into cutlass. Play her like you would Renekton just constantly chip away at them with W/E/Q combo.
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With the new triforce everyone who can make good use of it has made a a resurgance. What about trundle? He has the mega spammable bite and should be able to stick on anyone with pillar/domain/triforce speed/and bite slow.
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On September 24 2013 10:00 aurawashere wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 09:23 kainzero wrote:On September 24 2013 08:29 phyvo wrote:
I think you max W. If they try to fight you press W and stick to them and they will either flee like little girl or burn to death. IIRC top shy was played competitively somewhere and the guy rushed botrk for the cc, as shy you don't really need extra creep death. Top shy is played competitively by Royal's Godlike. I looked up the game in which he played it recently (China Worlds qualifiers, Royal vs iG Game 1) and he does max W, goes cutlass into spirit visage. They also lost. Hmmm. Reverse the item order so you get something defensive first then go into cutlass. Play her like you would Renekton just constantly chip away at them with W/E/Q combo.
but OH NO I DON'T PLAY RENEKTON
aura carry me pls
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+ Show Spoiler +Well, NA dream is dead. America fuck...no?
Also, expecting influx of Solo Q Nidalees. Frak.
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Genuinely curious, is there such a thing as a LoL maphack? Or did the other team have a lot of random blind luck? At first I thought it was shrooms/wards but then I bought an oracles elixir and it kinda kept happening (they would break away from the pushing creep wave into our jungle as we approached from behind or ruining baron attempts or just randomly in our jungle to kill a single person). Or maybe one of the characters had an ability I am not aware of?
Going against vayne/warwick/teemo/gangplank/kayle
We still won pretty easily because their team fighting was crap (53-46, but had 91 assists while they only had 55) but it was a bit frustrating for everybody on our team lol
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
No maphacks. All information is server-based.
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On September 24 2013 10:32 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Genuinely curious, is there such a thing as a LoL maphack? Or did the other team have a lot of random blind luck? At first I thought it was shrooms/wards but then I bought an oracles elixir and it kinda kept happening (they would break away from the pushing creep wave into our jungle as we approached from behind or ruining baron attempts or just randomly in our jungle to kill a single person). Or maybe one of the characters had an ability I am not aware of?
Going against vayne/warwick/teemo/gangplank/kayle
We still won pretty easily because their team fighting was crap (53-46, but had 91 assists while they only had 55) but it was a bit frustrating for everybody on our team lol
Not to my knowledge, no.
Are you sure it isn't just wards/shrooms? Sounds like the case.
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On September 24 2013 10:34 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 10:32 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Genuinely curious, is there such a thing as a LoL maphack? Or did the other team have a lot of random blind luck? At first I thought it was shrooms/wards but then I bought an oracles elixir and it kinda kept happening (they would break away from the pushing creep wave into our jungle as we approached from behind or ruining baron attempts or just randomly in our jungle to kill a single person). Or maybe one of the characters had an ability I am not aware of?
Going against vayne/warwick/teemo/gangplank/kayle
We still won pretty easily because their team fighting was crap (53-46, but had 91 assists while they only had 55) but it was a bit frustrating for everybody on our team lol Not to my knowledge, no. Are you sure it isn't just wards/shrooms? Sounds like the case.
Unless oracles doesnt reveal them or the wards faded as I got in range, positive. Guess it is just blind random luck and/or gamesense. Was just weird how often it happened.
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On September 24 2013 10:30 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Well, NA dream is dead. America fuck...no?
Also, expecting influx of Solo Q Nidalees. Frak.
The only reason it worked was all the assassins were banned and Alex showed the Gragas early.
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United States15536 Posts
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United States23745 Posts
It's okay, I'll pimp you out, just the way it usually is.
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EPT
