• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:52
CEST 00:52
KST 07:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!17Weekly Cups (July 13-19): Terran & Protoss rise; Zerg falters2Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)87Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format16[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!18
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Weekly Cups (July 13-19): Terran & Protoss rise; Zerg falters [D] Wireframe Casting Removed
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War HomeStory Cup 29
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Industrial Park New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate
External Content
Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Animated Gateway HORROR STARCRAFT MOVIE How Famous was FlaSh before his Debut?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvT advise for noobs Fighting Spirit mining rates Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Diablo IV ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread How to buy a book - shipping from Korea to Europe The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Role of Gaming on Mental Hea…
TrAiDoS
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5372 users

[Patch 3.11] General Discussion - Page 238

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 236 237 238 239 240 331 Next
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 22:21:56
September 23 2013 22:21 GMT
#4741
Before the rebalancing, Q was situational and E first the standard build, and after that Q progressively became standard while E is more situational, but that's also why I said that teams choose depending on needs (I'd argue that Q first is better for shoving and pressuring at tower while E first is better for skirmishing, which is further compounded by their respective first items).

Since the 2v1 and "fast push" playstyle, along with the objective control (and Varus himself not being as good in a skirmish/pick comp as somebody like either Ashe or Corki) is more popular, there aren't too many reasons to keep going E first though.
And I agree that if you went BT first you shouldn't build a BotRK, but I don't think I've said it anywhere in my post?

On September 24 2013 06:37 Ryuu314 wrote:
Varus also doesn't push particularly hard (Corki, Caitlyn)

He has 2 AoE spells and his Q does almost as much damage as Cait, while has also has higher than average range, he isn't a bad pusher by any means. Oo
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
September 23 2013 22:22 GMT
#4742
On September 24 2013 06:37 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 05:39 cLutZ wrote:
On September 24 2013 05:32 Dark_Chill wrote:
Wait, how is Varus outclassed? He still has a really good teamfight ult, decent burst, good laning... I'm just not seeing how he falls behind others.


Varus is good, but I think his weakness is being boring. When he was released I called him "milktoast" and that is what he is. Plus his "ideal" builds are not TF or Bork or IE first.

Actually, I think it's more due to his lack of mobility (Corki, Ez) along with his inability to duel the popular assassins (Corki, Vayne). Ahri, Zed, Fizz can all very easily kill him in teamfights. Varus also doesn't push particularly hard (Corki, Caitlyn) nor does he really "hyper-carry" (Vayne, Kog, Twitch). On top of that, if you want a utility AD carry, you'd probably rather just pick Ashe.

He was really popular before all the currently popular assassins became must pick/bans cause his mobility wasn't that big an issue.


You kinda just described why he is boring.
Freeeeeeedom
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
September 23 2013 23:06 GMT
#4743
On September 24 2013 07:21 Alaric wrote:
Before the rebalancing, Q was situational and E first the standard build, and after that Q progressively became standard while E is more situational, but that's also why I said that teams choose depending on needs (I'd argue that Q first is better for shoving and pressuring at tower while E first is better for skirmishing, which is further compounded by their respective first items).

Since the 2v1 and "fast push" playstyle, along with the objective control (and Varus himself not being as good in a skirmish/pick comp as somebody like either Ashe or Corki) is more popular, there aren't too many reasons to keep going E first though.
And I agree that if you went BT first you shouldn't build a BotRK, but I don't think I've said it anywhere in my post?

Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 06:37 Ryuu314 wrote:
Varus also doesn't push particularly hard (Corki, Caitlyn)

He has 2 AoE spells and his Q does almost as much damage as Cait, while has also has higher than average range, he isn't a bad pusher by any means. Oo

You're completely wrong.

His Q does WAY more damage than a Cait Q. The scaling man...

Harder to hit, though.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
September 23 2013 23:23 GMT
#4744
How to play Shyvana top?

I like Shyv so I've been trying her up there. I have no idea what I'm doing but it's fun. I don't know what to max and I just build hydra/sunfire so that I can destroy creeps, lol.
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
September 23 2013 23:29 GMT
#4745
I think you max W. If they try to fight you press W and stick to them and they will either flee like little girl or burn to death. IIRC top shy was played competitively somewhere and the guy rushed botrk for the cc, as shy you don't really need extra creep death.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
September 23 2013 23:59 GMT
#4746
On September 24 2013 08:06 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 07:21 Alaric wrote:
Before the rebalancing, Q was situational and E first the standard build, and after that Q progressively became standard while E is more situational, but that's also why I said that teams choose depending on needs (I'd argue that Q first is better for shoving and pressuring at tower while E first is better for skirmishing, which is further compounded by their respective first items).

Since the 2v1 and "fast push" playstyle, along with the objective control (and Varus himself not being as good in a skirmish/pick comp as somebody like either Ashe or Corki) is more popular, there aren't too many reasons to keep going E first though.
And I agree that if you went BT first you shouldn't build a BotRK, but I don't think I've said it anywhere in my post?

On September 24 2013 06:37 Ryuu314 wrote:
Varus also doesn't push particularly hard (Corki, Caitlyn)

He has 2 AoE spells and his Q does almost as much damage as Cait, while has also has higher than average range, he isn't a bad pusher by any means. Oo

You're completely wrong.

His Q does WAY more damage than a Cait Q. The scaling man...

Harder to hit, though.

It falls off harder and has a lower floor, so if you're trying to Q a minion wave you should do more or less as much damage as Cait on a single wave (and even less on a bigger group of minions), which is the point of pushing, right?
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Perplex
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1693 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-24 00:20:27
September 24 2013 00:18 GMT
#4747
On September 24 2013 08:59 Alaric wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 08:06 Lord Tolkien wrote:
On September 24 2013 07:21 Alaric wrote:
Before the rebalancing, Q was situational and E first the standard build, and after that Q progressively became standard while E is more situational, but that's also why I said that teams choose depending on needs (I'd argue that Q first is better for shoving and pressuring at tower while E first is better for skirmishing, which is further compounded by their respective first items).

Since the 2v1 and "fast push" playstyle, along with the objective control (and Varus himself not being as good in a skirmish/pick comp as somebody like either Ashe or Corki) is more popular, there aren't too many reasons to keep going E first though.
And I agree that if you went BT first you shouldn't build a BotRK, but I don't think I've said it anywhere in my post?

On September 24 2013 06:37 Ryuu314 wrote:
Varus also doesn't push particularly hard (Corki, Caitlyn)

He has 2 AoE spells and his Q does almost as much damage as Cait, while has also has higher than average range, he isn't a bad pusher by any means. Oo

You're completely wrong.

His Q does WAY more damage than a Cait Q. The scaling man...

Harder to hit, though.

It falls off harder and has a lower floor, so if you're trying to Q a minion wave you should do more or less as much damage as Cait on a single wave (and even less on a bigger group of minions), which is the point of pushing, right?


Varus is a far better pusher than cait. His Q does more damage than cait's Q in almost every instance, so i'm not sure what you're talking about when you say it falls off harder (it does not). It literally outclasses cait's Q in every way except for cooldown (2 seconds longer when maxed) and the floor (33%, which is probably close to cait's 50% damage). Furthermore, not only does his Q do more damage, but he has another AoE ability on top of that. Varus may actually be the best AD for waveclearing behind sivir and maybe graves.
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/24238059
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
September 24 2013 00:23 GMT
#4748
On September 24 2013 08:29 phyvo wrote:
I think you max W. If they try to fight you press W and stick to them and they will either flee like little girl or burn to death. IIRC top shy was played competitively somewhere and the guy rushed botrk for the cc, as shy you don't really need extra creep death.

Top shy is played competitively by Royal's Godlike. I looked up the game in which he played it recently (China Worlds qualifiers, Royal vs iG Game 1) and he does max W, goes cutlass into spirit visage.

They also lost.

Hmmm.

Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-24 00:33:35
September 24 2013 00:32 GMT
#4749
On September 24 2013 09:18 Perplex wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 08:59 Alaric wrote:
On September 24 2013 08:06 Lord Tolkien wrote:
On September 24 2013 07:21 Alaric wrote:
Before the rebalancing, Q was situational and E first the standard build, and after that Q progressively became standard while E is more situational, but that's also why I said that teams choose depending on needs (I'd argue that Q first is better for shoving and pressuring at tower while E first is better for skirmishing, which is further compounded by their respective first items).

Since the 2v1 and "fast push" playstyle, along with the objective control (and Varus himself not being as good in a skirmish/pick comp as somebody like either Ashe or Corki) is more popular, there aren't too many reasons to keep going E first though.
And I agree that if you went BT first you shouldn't build a BotRK, but I don't think I've said it anywhere in my post?

On September 24 2013 06:37 Ryuu314 wrote:
Varus also doesn't push particularly hard (Corki, Caitlyn)

He has 2 AoE spells and his Q does almost as much damage as Cait, while has also has higher than average range, he isn't a bad pusher by any means. Oo

You're completely wrong.

His Q does WAY more damage than a Cait Q. The scaling man...

Harder to hit, though.

It falls off harder and has a lower floor, so if you're trying to Q a minion wave you should do more or less as much damage as Cait on a single wave (and even less on a bigger group of minions), which is the point of pushing, right?


Varus is a far better pusher than cait. His Q does more damage than cait's Q in almost every instance, so i'm not sure what you're talking about when you say it falls off harder (it does not). It literally outclasses cait's Q in every way except for cooldown (2 seconds longer when maxed) and the floor (33%, which is probably close to cait's 50% damage). Furthermore, not only does his Q do more damage, but he has another AoE ability on top of that.

He has 2 AoE spells and his Q does almost as much damage as Cait

I didn't even post a 5k characters brickwall this time, why can't people read me? ;_;
I said exactly that: he's got 2 AoE spells and the nuking one does almost as much as Cait's alone, so he pushes harder. Zzz.

+ Show Spoiler [wiki sources] +
Varus:
Max Damage: 15 / 70 / 125 / 180 / 235 (+ 160% AD) dropping by 15%/target down to 33%
Max Diminished: 5 / 23.3 / 41.7 / 60 / 78.3 (+ 53% AD)

Caitlyn:
Physical damage: 20 / 60 / 100 / 140 / 180 (+ 130% AD) dropping by 10%/target down to 50%
Minimum damage: 10 / 30 / 50 / 70 / 90 (+ 65% AD)
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
aurawashere
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada454 Posts
September 24 2013 01:00 GMT
#4750
On September 24 2013 09:23 kainzero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 08:29 phyvo wrote:
I think you max W. If they try to fight you press W and stick to them and they will either flee like little girl or burn to death. IIRC top shy was played competitively somewhere and the guy rushed botrk for the cc, as shy you don't really need extra creep death.

Top shy is played competitively by Royal's Godlike. I looked up the game in which he played it recently (China Worlds qualifiers, Royal vs iG Game 1) and he does max W, goes cutlass into spirit visage.

They also lost.

Hmmm.



Reverse the item order so you get something defensive first then go into cutlass. Play her like you would Renekton just constantly chip away at them with W/E/Q combo.
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
September 24 2013 01:00 GMT
#4751
With the new triforce everyone who can make good use of it has made a a resurgance. What about trundle? He has the mega spammable bite and should be able to stick on anyone with pillar/domain/triforce speed/and bite slow.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
September 24 2013 01:21 GMT
#4752
On September 24 2013 10:00 aurawashere wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 09:23 kainzero wrote:
On September 24 2013 08:29 phyvo wrote:
I think you max W. If they try to fight you press W and stick to them and they will either flee like little girl or burn to death. IIRC top shy was played competitively somewhere and the guy rushed botrk for the cc, as shy you don't really need extra creep death.

Top shy is played competitively by Royal's Godlike. I looked up the game in which he played it recently (China Worlds qualifiers, Royal vs iG Game 1) and he does max W, goes cutlass into spirit visage.

They also lost.

Hmmm.



Reverse the item order so you get something defensive first then go into cutlass. Play her like you would Renekton just constantly chip away at them with W/E/Q combo.

but OH NO I DON'T PLAY RENEKTON

aura carry me pls
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-24 03:03:47
September 24 2013 01:30 GMT
#4753
+ Show Spoiler +
Well, NA dream is dead. America fuck...no?


Also, expecting influx of Solo Q Nidalees. Frak.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
September 24 2013 01:32 GMT
#4754
Genuinely curious, is there such a thing as a LoL maphack? Or did the other team have a lot of random blind luck? At first I thought it was shrooms/wards but then I bought an oracles elixir and it kinda kept happening (they would break away from the pushing creep wave into our jungle as we approached from behind or ruining baron attempts or just randomly in our jungle to kill a single person). Or maybe one of the characters had an ability I am not aware of?
Going against vayne/warwick/teemo/gangplank/kayle

We still won pretty easily because their team fighting was crap (53-46, but had 91 assists while they only had 55) but it was a bit frustrating for everybody on our team lol
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
September 24 2013 01:34 GMT
#4755
No maphacks. All information is server-based.
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
September 24 2013 01:34 GMT
#4756
On September 24 2013 10:32 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Genuinely curious, is there such a thing as a LoL maphack? Or did the other team have a lot of random blind luck? At first I thought it was shrooms/wards but then I bought an oracles elixir and it kinda kept happening (they would break away from the pushing creep wave into our jungle as we approached from behind or ruining baron attempts or just randomly in our jungle to kill a single person). Or maybe one of the characters had an ability I am not aware of?
Going against vayne/warwick/teemo/gangplank/kayle

We still won pretty easily because their team fighting was crap (53-46, but had 91 assists while they only had 55) but it was a bit frustrating for everybody on our team lol

Not to my knowledge, no.

Are you sure it isn't just wards/shrooms? Sounds like the case.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-24 01:36:22
September 24 2013 01:35 GMT
#4757
On September 24 2013 10:34 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 10:32 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Genuinely curious, is there such a thing as a LoL maphack? Or did the other team have a lot of random blind luck? At first I thought it was shrooms/wards but then I bought an oracles elixir and it kinda kept happening (they would break away from the pushing creep wave into our jungle as we approached from behind or ruining baron attempts or just randomly in our jungle to kill a single person). Or maybe one of the characters had an ability I am not aware of?
Going against vayne/warwick/teemo/gangplank/kayle

We still won pretty easily because their team fighting was crap (53-46, but had 91 assists while they only had 55) but it was a bit frustrating for everybody on our team lol

Not to my knowledge, no.

Are you sure it isn't just wards/shrooms? Sounds like the case.

Unless oracles doesnt reveal them or the wards faded as I got in range, positive. Guess it is just blind random luck and/or gamesense. Was just weird how often it happened.
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
September 24 2013 01:36 GMT
#4758
On September 24 2013 10:30 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Well, NA dream is dead. America fuck...no?

Also, expecting influx of Solo Q Nidalees. Frak.

The only reason it worked was all the assassins were banned and Alex showed the Gragas early.
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
September 24 2013 01:41 GMT
#4759
I'll do this only once.

COME CHECK OUT MY NEW STREAM.

There. No more self-pimping.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
September 24 2013 01:53 GMT
#4760
On September 24 2013 10:41 AsmodeusXI wrote:
I'll do this only once.

COME CHECK OUT MY NEW STREAM.

There. No more self-pimping.

It's okay, I'll pimp you out, just the way it usually is.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Prev 1 236 237 238 239 240 331 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 8m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ViBE181
SpeCial 129
ZombieGrub92
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 404
NaDa 19
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm1
League of Legends
Doublelift3563
Counter-Strike
minikerr33
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox554
Other Games
summit1g8564
tarik_tv8171
Grubby2604
Coldzera 1031
shahzam511
ToD187
ROOTCatZ153
JuggernautJason147
Livibee76
Trikslyr48
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick33
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 76
• RyuSc2 35
• musti20045 32
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 26
• iopq 10
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21103
Other Games
• imaqtpie825
• Shiphtur399
Upcoming Events
OSC
1h 8m
CrankTV Team League
12h 8m
Replay Cast
1d 1h
CrankTV Team League
1d 12h
Big Brain Bouts
1d 17h
Soulspirit vs goblin
TriGGeR vs Bunny
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Serral vs SHIN
herO vs Solar
Online Event
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
Clem vs ByuN
Rogue vs Lambo
OSC
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Patches Events
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-21
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E3

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Proleague 2026-07-22
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.