EPT[Patch 3.11] General Discussion - Page 19
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
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wussleeQ
United States3130 Posts
On September 05 2013 12:36 Shotcoder wrote: Alright I dont follow the Korean scene, but why are there a shen and a Zed on both teams? koreans play blind pick for final games usually | ||
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On September 05 2013 12:09 sung_moon wrote: Why is Swain not picked more often? I've been seeing quite a bit of Swain top blue side with an AD mid/ manaless AP mid and I've been getting outlaned pretty hard by Swain top + blue buff. Literally happened to me three games this week. He seems to stay in lane forever and bully certain melees. And after 6 and he's ahead and/or with a bluee buff, I'm just sitting at tower getting zoned. Maybe I'm just a baddie. I faced vs. him top as an Irelia/Vlad/Malph. I literally felt hopeless as Vlad/Irelia vs. that. I remember hotshot playing Swain top vs m5 A long time ago at one of the IEMs(Kiev?). It was Swain vs Irelia, and it was a fairly even matchup in terms of trades, especially considering Swain got the second kill of the game. Swain's laning is meh before 5 when played top. I feel he does beat certain melees, but I think some people are just afraid to play aggro against him early on. Tanky/full tank top laner is pretty good right now, and while Swain definitely CAN get tanky with RoA+Zhonya's, guys like Renekton or Shen or Malphite buy a Sunfire for less gold and instantly become tanky. Plus Swain needs to wait a few minutes for RoA to fully pay off. I've been looking to get a tankish mid lane that isn't Cho or Mordehuehue. It's between Swain and Diana for me right now. Suggestions on who to get? Tough to pass up Diana, especially considering her relatively simple play-style. Hit a q>destroy mid laner. Also, Swain is very good vs Vlad from what I've seen. Not much good a Vlad q will do you if you're going to be eating 2-3 dots, and killing Swain as 99% of mages is difficult to do alone. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
On September 05 2013 12:23 Zdrastochye wrote: He's hellah good vs Vlad though, if my top lane memory holds true. Swain is among the god-tier Vlad counters, up there with Khazix, Fiddlesticks, Xin, Urgot, and Rengar, all of whom are basically 10-0/9-1 matchups against Vlad. Those are lanes where you need to either laneswap, or die repeatedly and be denied. | ||
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Haiq343
United States2548 Posts
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On September 05 2013 12:23 miicah wrote: The only thing about health bars in the patch notes is this: Removed the default key bind for "Show/Hide Summoner Names" (previously, Shift-K). The function can still be bound in the Key Bindings menu if you wish to use it They removed the key bind for HP bars too, but HP bars random toggle on and off until you force them on, but you can't force them on because they removed the key binding, so you have to set the key first and then use it to toggle HP bars on. It took me like 5 mins of wtf before I finally figured it out. | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On September 05 2013 12:09 sung_moon wrote: Why is Swain not picked more often? I've been seeing quite a bit of Swain top blue side with an AD mid/ manaless AP mid and I've been getting outlaned pretty hard by Swain top + blue buff. Literally happened to me three games this week. He seems to stay in lane forever and bully certain melees. And after 6 and he's ahead and/or with a bluee buff, I'm just sitting at tower getting zoned. Maybe I'm just a baddie. I faced vs. him top as an Irelia/Vlad/Malph. I literally felt hopeless as Vlad/Irelia vs. that. Funny you mention Irelia, I heard about Swain top, gave it a try and got absolutely murdered by an Irelia. Didn't really feel like I could harass her out of lane early. Then at level 3-4 she got me to a bit over half in one rotation, and a level later she allin'd me and killed me. After that first kill the lane was completely out of my control and Irelia became unstoppable. I probably misplayed, but it was such a horrible experience that I haven't touched Swain top since. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
On September 05 2013 13:08 Amarok wrote: Funny you mention Irelia, I heard about Swain top, gave it a try and got absolutely murdered by an Irelia. Didn't really feel like I could harass her out of lane early. Then at level 3-4 she got me to a bit over half in one rotation, and a level later she allin'd me and killed me. After that first kill the lane was completely out of my control and Irelia became unstoppable. I probably misplayed, but it was such a horrible experience that I haven't touched Swain top since. Irelia vs Swain is a skill matchup. Swain has an early advantage, just auto-harass her, but with Flask and other sustain options, Irelia can nowadays eat the early harass and stay even with the sustain, and start absolutely chunking Swain starting level 5-6ish. Played several Swains as Irelia before. The ones whom played passive (esp early) got absolutely murdered and outscaled. The ones who are press their early advantage extremely hard make the lane much more even. Still, I would absolutely not recommend picking Swain into Irelia unless you're comfortable with the champ/matchup. A good Irelia will murder an inexperienced Swain. | ||
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Frudgey
Canada3367 Posts
On September 05 2013 12:50 Lord Tolkien wrote: Swain is among the god-tier Vlad counters, up there with Khazix, Fiddlesticks, Xin, Urgot, and Rengar, all of whom are basically 10-0/9-1 matchups against Vlad. Those are lanes where you need to either laneswap, or die repeatedly and be denied. What makes all those laners you mentioned good against Vladimir? Sorry if this is common knowledge, but I don't know the answer hence me asking that question. I'm guessing it has something to do with all of them being able to lay the smack down on Vladimir early game, or that Vladimir's poke is essentially nullified by these laners. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On September 05 2013 13:18 Frudgey wrote: What makes all those laners you mentioned good against Vladimir? Sorry if this is common knowledge, but I don't know the answer hence me asking that question. I'm guessing it has something to do with all of them being able to lay the smack down on Vladimir early game, or that Vladimir's poke is essentially nullified by these laners. Vlad is weak against champs that can bully him pre-7~9 and can maintain that lead. Vlad's very early game is weak since his cooldowns are high, sustain is pathetic, and his dps isn't great either. However, he hits a big bump in power once he gets some spellvamp and/or lv 7~9. | ||
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Vanka
China1336 Posts
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On September 05 2013 13:18 Frudgey wrote: What makes all those laners you mentioned good against Vladimir? Sorry if this is common knowledge, but I don't know the answer hence me asking that question. I'm guessing it has something to do with all of them being able to lay the smack down on Vladimir early game, or that Vladimir's poke is essentially nullified by these laners. Iunno about Urgot(people play him?), but everyone other than Fiddles can all in him at lvl 2 with stupid burst. Fiddles is a "counter" because drain beats everything Vlad can do, because he has no cc. I don't really buy it myself, but then again, I have a bias as Fiddles not being a very good laner. | ||
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miicah
Australia2470 Posts
On September 05 2013 12:50 Lord Tolkien wrote: Swain is among the god-tier Vlad counters, up there with Khazix, Fiddlesticks, Xin, Urgot, and Rengar, all of whom are basically 10-0/9-1 matchups against Vlad. Those are lanes where you need to either laneswap, or die repeatedly and be denied. How does the fiddle matchup work here? There is no way a fiddle can outpush a vlad unless he is maxing E and if he does that then the fear/drain combo is either not going to be long enough or not drain enough. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On September 05 2013 13:31 miicah wrote: How does the fiddle matchup work here? There is no way a fiddle can outpush a vlad unless he is maxing E and if he does that then the fear/drain combo is either not going to be long enough or not drain enough. He has all the time to push the wave when you're dead. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On September 05 2013 13:31 miicah wrote: How does the fiddle matchup work here? There is no way a fiddle can outpush a vlad unless he is maxing E and if he does that then the fear/drain combo is either not going to be long enough or not drain enough. Fiddle maxes drain. Vlad can't 1v1 Fiddle due to not having any disable. Although you're right in that Vlad can just push the wave reasonably easily. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
On September 05 2013 13:26 Cloud9157 wrote: Iunno about Urgot(people play him?), but everyone other than Fiddles can all in him at lvl 2 with stupid burst. Fiddles is a "counter" because drain beats everything Vlad can do, because he has no cc. I don't really buy it myself, but then again, I have a bias as Fiddles not being a very good laner. They are champions that can both all-in with stupid burst, and most (Xin for instance) can stick onto him after the pool. Xin for instance will slow Vlad enough to stay in range for the knockup after the pool. Fiddlesticks just kills Vlad and sits in the middle of the wave and doesn't afraid of anything Vlad does. Fiddle has way more sustain, and if Vlad comes close at all it's Silence-Fear-Drain for most of your HP. And he outsustains you by a crazy margin. Plus Vlad's waveclear doesn't start until level 4 at a minimum (given he'll want to get E third, because Pool's generally [well, not in the Fiddle matchup] an essential defensive tool), and even then it's weak and he needs to be relatively close to do it. Bad idea when Fiddle will have both Fear+Silence+level 2 drain up. As Fiddle will normally start Silence level 1 or 2, he actually has superior early game pushing capabilities. I do agree that Fiddle is a pretty bad laner, but he's pretty much a hard counter to Vlad. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On September 05 2013 12:44 Cloud9157 wrote: I remember hotshot playing Swain top vs m5 A long time ago at one of the IEMs(Kiev?). It was Swain vs Irelia, and it was a fairly even matchup in terms of trades, especially considering Swain got the second kill of the game. Swain's laning is meh before 5 when played top. I feel he does beat certain melees, but I think some people are just afraid to play aggro against him early on. Tanky/full tank top laner is pretty good right now, and while Swain definitely CAN get tanky with RoA+Zhonya's, guys like Renekton or Shen or Malphite buy a Sunfire for less gold and instantly become tanky. Plus Swain needs to wait a few minutes for RoA to fully pay off. Tough to pass up Diana, especially considering her relatively simple play-style. Hit a q>destroy mid laner. Also, Swain is very good vs Vlad from what I've seen. Not much good a Vlad q will do you if you're going to be eating 2-3 dots, and killing Swain as 99% of mages is difficult to do alone. Yeah, Swain has a lot of problems with the current mid laners and top lane Swain is just not viable enough to be played. However, he WAS played a couple of times (during LCS?) by Dig. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
I used to like playing Swain a lot against Khazix and Zed in mid, but I dunno how it would work with the new Khazix and people play Zed a lot better than they used to earlier this year. | ||
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