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On September 17 2013 05:29 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 05:14 Djin)ftw( wrote:Has anyone read about the blue side xp feature? link A hotfix is being applied right now. What strikes me as odd is the following: "We understand that this problem is a potentially significant issue. When we attempted a solution on Wednesday, additional complications arose. Currently we have a confirmed fix for the bug, but given that server stability is of high importance to us, deploying it over the weekend just isn’t viable. We will be getting this out as soon as possible on Monday. "I mean, my programming skills are low, maybe even more so than my LoL skillZ. But shouldn't that just be something like creep.type.xp = x - 2; And that's it? Like, sometimes I really really REALLY want to see the source code. Holy moly It's almost certainly not a case of just a couple of numbers being wrong, as that would be fixed really easily. The programmer at Riot was probably staring at the data and seeing something like BLUE_MINION_BASE_XP = 35 PURPLE_MINION_BASE_XP = 35 and wondering why the blue minions were giving 37 XP instead. He could just change BLUE_MINION_BASE_XP to 33 to "fix" the problem, but that's only going to cause problems down the line when the real bug gets accidentally fixed, and suddenly the blue minions are giving 2 less XP than normal. Going through the whole code and finding the root of the problem takes considerably more time. Also, Riot programmers aren't stupid, and the root bug was probably introduced while trying to fix some other bug. So the root bug gets fixed, and the original bug breaks again, and they have to go back and fix the first bug the right way, and not in a way that causes blue minions to give extra XP. Back in the alpha days of Riot, if they came across a weird bug like this a couple days before release, they probably would have just set the blue minion XP to 2 lower to quickly fix the problem since releasing quickly is more important than getting the code right. Now they're paying for all these quick fixes with obscure bugs that come up and take a lot longer to fix than if the same bugs came up on a "clean" code base.
And this is EXACTLY what I think, too. One of the first things I learned about programming is that if you encounter a bug and do not fix it properly, in the end you will pay for it because the code will get messier and it will take more and more time to understand what is going on.
So with all due respect, I'd say the programmers are quite incompetent.
I mean, I can absolutely understand that there are deadlines, that the servers are supposed to be up and running 24/7, that all the kids out there get super angry super fast if an unwanted feature in your software is being discovered.. and thats all fine, I'd probably do the same thing. That being said, I would have expected other people do to better than me.
Seriously, if one or more creeps for some unknown reason grant +2EXP compared to purple side minions, that should be one of the easiest fixes imaginable. So if it takes like 2 or 3 days to get this straight, holy moly.
bushes are broken
"The biggest thing you didn't cover is that vision is not a 'point to point' system; vision is based on character size. This is so a giant cho doesn't suddenly appear half way around a corner, and also so cho can 'see around' that corner a little bit. Unfortunately the algorithm doing that check isn't very good (it's what leads to the 'I can see them, they can't see me' bug) so I'm rewriting it. Otherwise you're pretty on target."
Ah well. I guess Dota2 has a lot of bugs too.
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I think you're grossly underestimating the amount and complexity of the code involved. Think of all the Q&A that goes into any software release to make sure it's mostly bug free, and then imagine doing that for every patch. It'd be absurd (and still doesn't catch all the bugs!) The pvp.net client is old and rickety and likely makes any and all problems Riot encounters much more difficult as well.
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On September 17 2013 06:48 Djin)ftw( wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 05:29 thenexusp wrote:On September 17 2013 05:14 Djin)ftw( wrote:Has anyone read about the blue side xp feature? link A hotfix is being applied right now. What strikes me as odd is the following: "We understand that this problem is a potentially significant issue. When we attempted a solution on Wednesday, additional complications arose. Currently we have a confirmed fix for the bug, but given that server stability is of high importance to us, deploying it over the weekend just isn’t viable. We will be getting this out as soon as possible on Monday. "I mean, my programming skills are low, maybe even more so than my LoL skillZ. But shouldn't that just be something like creep.type.xp = x - 2; And that's it? Like, sometimes I really really REALLY want to see the source code. Holy moly It's almost certainly not a case of just a couple of numbers being wrong, as that would be fixed really easily. The programmer at Riot was probably staring at the data and seeing something like BLUE_MINION_BASE_XP = 35 PURPLE_MINION_BASE_XP = 35 and wondering why the blue minions were giving 37 XP instead. He could just change BLUE_MINION_BASE_XP to 33 to "fix" the problem, but that's only going to cause problems down the line when the real bug gets accidentally fixed, and suddenly the blue minions are giving 2 less XP than normal. Going through the whole code and finding the root of the problem takes considerably more time. Also, Riot programmers aren't stupid, and the root bug was probably introduced while trying to fix some other bug. So the root bug gets fixed, and the original bug breaks again, and they have to go back and fix the first bug the right way, and not in a way that causes blue minions to give extra XP. Back in the alpha days of Riot, if they came across a weird bug like this a couple days before release, they probably would have just set the blue minion XP to 2 lower to quickly fix the problem since releasing quickly is more important than getting the code right. Now they're paying for all these quick fixes with obscure bugs that come up and take a lot longer to fix than if the same bugs came up on a "clean" code base. And this is EXACTLY what I think, too. One of the first things I learned about programming is that if you encounter a bug and do not fix it properly, in the end you will pay for it because the code will get messier and it will take more and more time to understand what is going on. So with all due respect, I'd say the programmers are quite incompetent. I mean, I can absolutely understand that there are deadlines, that the servers are supposed to be up and running 24/7, that all the kids out there get super angry super fast if an unwanted feature in your software is being discovered.. and thats all fine, I'd probably do the same thing. That being said, I would have expected other people do to better than me. Seriously, if one or more creeps for some unknown reason grant +2EXP compared to purple side minions, that should be one of the easiest fixes imaginable. So if it takes like 2 or 3 days to get this straight, holy moly. bushes are broken" The biggest thing you didn't cover is that vision is not a 'point to point' system; vision is based on character size. This is so a giant cho doesn't suddenly appear half way around a corner, and also so cho can 'see around' that corner a little bit. Unfortunately the algorithm doing that check isn't very good (it's what leads to the 'I can see them, they can't see me' bug) so I'm rewriting it. Otherwise you're pretty on target." Ah well. I guess Dota2 has a lot of bugs too.
That's the thing, though. Just subtracting 2 from the blue minions probably isn't the right fix, and it was fixes like that which was what got Riot's codebase into this situation in the first place.
Regarding deadlines, Yango (I think) has written posts about the fortuitous timing of LoL's release - back when online gaming was just emerging, F2P models hadn't really been developed, and DotA2 was still a little ways off from being released. If LoL was released 6 months or a year later it is very possible that it would not enjoy nearly as much success as it does today. Hitting those deadlines generally means compromising on code quality. Now that LoL is a more mature game it makes sense to spend the time to clean up the mess that was made when they were trying to get a product out the door as soon as possible.
In school they teach you to make sure your code stays clean, etc. etc.. Real life is a different bitch. You can have the best code in the world and that doesn't matter if DotA2 or HoN beats you to the punch.
There is a concept in the tech world known as "technical debt" - you can take on technical debt by hacking together quick fixes and messy code, which will in the short term speed up the development process but in the long term will cause strange bugs and slow down the development process. You want to avoid technical debt if possible, but just like how a new business will take out loans to jump start their business, sometimes (nearly always) a startup tech company will take on technical debt to release their product (and start making money) faster.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
i think some riot guy on reddit said that the problem was caused by misinterpreting a segment of code as affecting all units, when in reality it's just all units for one side. the change to exp was not copy pasted a few lines down onto the code for the other side.
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United States37500 Posts
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I'm pretty confident that Corki will still be a contested ADC pick even with Trinity nerfs.
+ Show Spoiler +
Phage
Now Gives +15 Attack Damage (Down from 20)
Passive's tooltip now says 'This Movement Speed bonus is halved for ranged champions.'
Trinity Force
Now gives +20 Attack Damage (Down from 30)
Passive's tooltip now says 'This Movement Speed bonus is halved for ranged champions.'
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Triforce dmg stays? I wonder what dirt phreak has on the balance staff.
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On September 17 2013 06:40 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 03:42 Seuss wrote:On September 17 2013 02:55 Don_Julio wrote:
The best part about Season 3 has been the diversified champion pool for adcs. Almost every champion that fits the role has been played in the LCS at one point.
The overbuff of Triforce completely ruined that aspect just at the right moment for Worlds. Sad. You're correct that the Trinity Force buff hasn't helped anything, but "At one point" is a tricky phrase. We saw Draven played in the LCS "at one point", but the chances of him appearing at Worlds were and are practically nil. The same can be said for many other champions who were popular picks in the LCS "at one point". What matters is the diversity that exists now, and generally speaking I don't think it's particularly great. Here are all the picks for each role so far: - Top: Kennen, Malphite, Nasus, Renekton, Rumble, Shen, Singed, Yorick, Zac
- Jungle: Aatrox, Elise, Evelynn, Jarvan, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Vi
- Mid: Ahri, Diana, Gragas, Fizz, Lissandra, Orianna, Swain, Ryze, Zed
- ADC: Caitlyn, Corki, Ezreal, Kog'maw, Vayne
- Support: Fiddlesticks, Leona, Nami, Thresh, Sona, Zyra
I've bolded those that surprised me. Out of a pool of 115 champions we've seen a total of 36, with 5 big surprises. Granted, that's only day 1, but I doubt that number is going to dramatically expand going forward. By the time Worlds is over I expect we'll see another 19 champions at most, leaving us at less than half of the available pool (which excludes Lucian). It's not a complete diversity disaster, but it could be better. Why are you surprised by Singed? Korea has been picking him into Shen for quite some time. Ryze is a surprise, mostly because he is bad, and was picked as an Ahri "counter", which he doesn't do anymore because of the range nerf. Edit: Also I feel like more people should pick Kog into Vayne, its a pretty nice play if you can swing it.
I don't follow the Korean scene as much as I should, so anything people haven't been raving about (e.g. Shyvana, Mundo) I'm not necessarily going to know about.
Which is part of why I went ahead and made a list. When you throw down it makes it easier for people to correct you. We've seen a few good suggestions for what I may have missed, but I'm not convinced that we'll see as many champions as CSheep anticipates.
On September 17 2013 07:03 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 06:48 Djin)ftw( wrote:On September 17 2013 05:29 thenexusp wrote:On September 17 2013 05:14 Djin)ftw( wrote:Has anyone read about the blue side xp feature? link A hotfix is being applied right now. What strikes me as odd is the following: "We understand that this problem is a potentially significant issue. When we attempted a solution on Wednesday, additional complications arose. Currently we have a confirmed fix for the bug, but given that server stability is of high importance to us, deploying it over the weekend just isn’t viable. We will be getting this out as soon as possible on Monday. "I mean, my programming skills are low, maybe even more so than my LoL skillZ. But shouldn't that just be something like creep.type.xp = x - 2; And that's it? Like, sometimes I really really REALLY want to see the source code. Holy moly It's almost certainly not a case of just a couple of numbers being wrong, as that would be fixed really easily. The programmer at Riot was probably staring at the data and seeing something like BLUE_MINION_BASE_XP = 35 PURPLE_MINION_BASE_XP = 35 and wondering why the blue minions were giving 37 XP instead. He could just change BLUE_MINION_BASE_XP to 33 to "fix" the problem, but that's only going to cause problems down the line when the real bug gets accidentally fixed, and suddenly the blue minions are giving 2 less XP than normal. Going through the whole code and finding the root of the problem takes considerably more time. Also, Riot programmers aren't stupid, and the root bug was probably introduced while trying to fix some other bug. So the root bug gets fixed, and the original bug breaks again, and they have to go back and fix the first bug the right way, and not in a way that causes blue minions to give extra XP. Back in the alpha days of Riot, if they came across a weird bug like this a couple days before release, they probably would have just set the blue minion XP to 2 lower to quickly fix the problem since releasing quickly is more important than getting the code right. Now they're paying for all these quick fixes with obscure bugs that come up and take a lot longer to fix than if the same bugs came up on a "clean" code base. And this is EXACTLY what I think, too. One of the first things I learned about programming is that if you encounter a bug and do not fix it properly, in the end you will pay for it because the code will get messier and it will take more and more time to understand what is going on. So with all due respect, I'd say the programmers are quite incompetent. I mean, I can absolutely understand that there are deadlines, that the servers are supposed to be up and running 24/7, that all the kids out there get super angry super fast if an unwanted feature in your software is being discovered.. and thats all fine, I'd probably do the same thing. That being said, I would have expected other people do to better than me. Seriously, if one or more creeps for some unknown reason grant +2EXP compared to purple side minions, that should be one of the easiest fixes imaginable. So if it takes like 2 or 3 days to get this straight, holy moly. bushes are broken" The biggest thing you didn't cover is that vision is not a 'point to point' system; vision is based on character size. This is so a giant cho doesn't suddenly appear half way around a corner, and also so cho can 'see around' that corner a little bit. Unfortunately the algorithm doing that check isn't very good (it's what leads to the 'I can see them, they can't see me' bug) so I'm rewriting it. Otherwise you're pretty on target." Ah well. I guess Dota2 has a lot of bugs too. That's the thing, though. Just subtracting 2 from the blue minions probably isn't the right fix, and it was fixes like that which was what got Riot's codebase into this situation in the first place. Regarding deadlines, Yango (I think) has written posts about the fortuitous timing of LoL's release - back when online gaming was just emerging, F2P models hadn't really been developed, and DotA2 was still a little ways off from being released. If LoL was released 6 months or a year later it is very possible that it would not enjoy nearly as much success as it does today. Hitting those deadlines generally means compromising on code quality. Now that LoL is a more mature game it makes sense to spend the time to clean up the mess that was made when they were trying to get a product out the door as soon as possible. In school they teach you to make sure your code stays clean, etc. etc.. Real life is a different bitch. You can have the best code in the world and that doesn't matter if DotA2 or HoN beats you to the punch. There is a concept in the tech world known as "technical debt" - you can take on technical debt by hacking together quick fixes and messy code, which will in the short term speed up the development process but in the long term will cause strange bugs and slow down the development process. You want to avoid technical debt if possible, but just like how a new business will take out loans to jump start their business, sometimes (nearly always) a startup tech company will take on technical debt to release their product (and start making money) faster.
I'm pretty sure I've made the "LoL came out at just the right time" point before, but it's possibly something Yango and I share.
I'm looking for the post now, but it's hard to find the right keywords.
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United States47024 Posts
It's not exactly a rare belief to have lol.
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On September 17 2013 07:19 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 06:40 cLutZ wrote:On September 17 2013 03:42 Seuss wrote:On September 17 2013 02:55 Don_Julio wrote:
The best part about Season 3 has been the diversified champion pool for adcs. Almost every champion that fits the role has been played in the LCS at one point.
The overbuff of Triforce completely ruined that aspect just at the right moment for Worlds. Sad. You're correct that the Trinity Force buff hasn't helped anything, but "At one point" is a tricky phrase. We saw Draven played in the LCS "at one point", but the chances of him appearing at Worlds were and are practically nil. The same can be said for many other champions who were popular picks in the LCS "at one point". What matters is the diversity that exists now, and generally speaking I don't think it's particularly great. Here are all the picks for each role so far: - Top: Kennen, Malphite, Nasus, Renekton, Rumble, Shen, Singed, Yorick, Zac
- Jungle: Aatrox, Elise, Evelynn, Jarvan, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Vi
- Mid: Ahri, Diana, Gragas, Fizz, Lissandra, Orianna, Swain, Ryze, Zed
- ADC: Caitlyn, Corki, Ezreal, Kog'maw, Vayne
- Support: Fiddlesticks, Leona, Nami, Thresh, Sona, Zyra
I've bolded those that surprised me. Out of a pool of 115 champions we've seen a total of 36, with 5 big surprises. Granted, that's only day 1, but I doubt that number is going to dramatically expand going forward. By the time Worlds is over I expect we'll see another 19 champions at most, leaving us at less than half of the available pool (which excludes Lucian). It's not a complete diversity disaster, but it could be better. Why are you surprised by Singed? Korea has been picking him into Shen for quite some time. Ryze is a surprise, mostly because he is bad, and was picked as an Ahri "counter", which he doesn't do anymore because of the range nerf. Edit: Also I feel like more people should pick Kog into Vayne, its a pretty nice play if you can swing it. I don't follow the Korean scene as much as I should, so anything people haven't been raving about (e.g. Shyvana, Mundo) I'm not necessarily going to know about. Which is part of why I went ahead and made a list. When you throw down it makes it easier for people to correct you. We've seen a few good suggestions for what I may have missed, but I'm not convinced that we'll see as many champions as CSheep anticipates.
Completely unrelated, but why were you not surprised by the Leona pick? I'd expect Lulu and Blitzcrank to be picked up way before a Leona would be picked. Leona hasn't seen support play in competitive tournaments in a long while from what I recall.
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United States23745 Posts
On September 17 2013 07:25 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 07:19 Seuss wrote:On September 17 2013 06:40 cLutZ wrote:On September 17 2013 03:42 Seuss wrote:On September 17 2013 02:55 Don_Julio wrote:
The best part about Season 3 has been the diversified champion pool for adcs. Almost every champion that fits the role has been played in the LCS at one point.
The overbuff of Triforce completely ruined that aspect just at the right moment for Worlds. Sad. You're correct that the Trinity Force buff hasn't helped anything, but "At one point" is a tricky phrase. We saw Draven played in the LCS "at one point", but the chances of him appearing at Worlds were and are practically nil. The same can be said for many other champions who were popular picks in the LCS "at one point". What matters is the diversity that exists now, and generally speaking I don't think it's particularly great. Here are all the picks for each role so far: - Top: Kennen, Malphite, Nasus, Renekton, Rumble, Shen, Singed, Yorick, Zac
- Jungle: Aatrox, Elise, Evelynn, Jarvan, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Vi
- Mid: Ahri, Diana, Gragas, Fizz, Lissandra, Orianna, Swain, Ryze, Zed
- ADC: Caitlyn, Corki, Ezreal, Kog'maw, Vayne
- Support: Fiddlesticks, Leona, Nami, Thresh, Sona, Zyra
I've bolded those that surprised me. Out of a pool of 115 champions we've seen a total of 36, with 5 big surprises. Granted, that's only day 1, but I doubt that number is going to dramatically expand going forward. By the time Worlds is over I expect we'll see another 19 champions at most, leaving us at less than half of the available pool (which excludes Lucian). It's not a complete diversity disaster, but it could be better. Why are you surprised by Singed? Korea has been picking him into Shen for quite some time. Ryze is a surprise, mostly because he is bad, and was picked as an Ahri "counter", which he doesn't do anymore because of the range nerf. Edit: Also I feel like more people should pick Kog into Vayne, its a pretty nice play if you can swing it. I don't follow the Korean scene as much as I should, so anything people haven't been raving about (e.g. Shyvana, Mundo) I'm not necessarily going to know about. Which is part of why I went ahead and made a list. When you throw down it makes it easier for people to correct you. We've seen a few good suggestions for what I may have missed, but I'm not convinced that we'll see as many champions as CSheep anticipates. Completed unrelated, but why were you not surprised by the Leona pick? I'd expect Lulu and Blitzcrank to be picked up way before a Leona would be picked. Leona hasn't seen support play in competitive tournaments in a long while from what I recall.
I had the same thought, the whole no items on support meta doesn't really fit her.
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On September 17 2013 07:25 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 07:19 Seuss wrote:On September 17 2013 06:40 cLutZ wrote:On September 17 2013 03:42 Seuss wrote:On September 17 2013 02:55 Don_Julio wrote:
The best part about Season 3 has been the diversified champion pool for adcs. Almost every champion that fits the role has been played in the LCS at one point.
The overbuff of Triforce completely ruined that aspect just at the right moment for Worlds. Sad. You're correct that the Trinity Force buff hasn't helped anything, but "At one point" is a tricky phrase. We saw Draven played in the LCS "at one point", but the chances of him appearing at Worlds were and are practically nil. The same can be said for many other champions who were popular picks in the LCS "at one point". What matters is the diversity that exists now, and generally speaking I don't think it's particularly great. Here are all the picks for each role so far: - Top: Kennen, Malphite, Nasus, Renekton, Rumble, Shen, Singed, Yorick, Zac
- Jungle: Aatrox, Elise, Evelynn, Jarvan, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Vi
- Mid: Ahri, Diana, Gragas, Fizz, Lissandra, Orianna, Swain, Ryze, Zed
- ADC: Caitlyn, Corki, Ezreal, Kog'maw, Vayne
- Support: Fiddlesticks, Leona, Nami, Thresh, Sona, Zyra
I've bolded those that surprised me. Out of a pool of 115 champions we've seen a total of 36, with 5 big surprises. Granted, that's only day 1, but I doubt that number is going to dramatically expand going forward. By the time Worlds is over I expect we'll see another 19 champions at most, leaving us at less than half of the available pool (which excludes Lucian). It's not a complete diversity disaster, but it could be better. Why are you surprised by Singed? Korea has been picking him into Shen for quite some time. Ryze is a surprise, mostly because he is bad, and was picked as an Ahri "counter", which he doesn't do anymore because of the range nerf. Edit: Also I feel like more people should pick Kog into Vayne, its a pretty nice play if you can swing it. I don't follow the Korean scene as much as I should, so anything people haven't been raving about (e.g. Shyvana, Mundo) I'm not necessarily going to know about. Which is part of why I went ahead and made a list. When you throw down it makes it easier for people to correct you. We've seen a few good suggestions for what I may have missed, but I'm not convinced that we'll see as many champions as CSheep anticipates. Completed unrelated, but why were you not surprised by the Leona pick? I'd expect Lulu and Blitzcrank to be picked up way before a Leona would be picked. Leona hasn't seen support play in competitive tournaments in a long while from what I recall.
For me, I made a list sometime ago(too lazy to find it), that expected about 45-50 champs to see play throughout the entire tournament.
Leona was on the list of stuff I expect to see simply because corki was also on the list. It's so incredibly strong of a lane if you get even remotely ahead. Being able to evaporate a squishy is often a pretty powerful tool.
The surprise picks for me were Ryze, Swain, and kog. I didn't think Dade's pool was so limited, and Swain was a pocket strat. Kog I think is a Genja Special.
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I think we MIGHT see a nunu, but we probably shouldn't. His early game jungle nuisance factor is much less useful in these kinds of games. But there always is a guy who thinks he is gonna steal all the big wolves and wraiths.
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Leona was nrated's champ since forever and yellowstar was his ad for a lot of that time.No wonder he likes her as well.Also they were playing vs mineski.
Sktt1 should pull out the jungle nunu imo.It used to be a bengi favourite dunno about now.
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On September 17 2013 06:48 Djin)ftw( wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 05:29 thenexusp wrote:On September 17 2013 05:14 Djin)ftw( wrote:Has anyone read about the blue side xp feature? link A hotfix is being applied right now. What strikes me as odd is the following: "We understand that this problem is a potentially significant issue. When we attempted a solution on Wednesday, additional complications arose. Currently we have a confirmed fix for the bug, but given that server stability is of high importance to us, deploying it over the weekend just isn’t viable. We will be getting this out as soon as possible on Monday. "I mean, my programming skills are low, maybe even more so than my LoL skillZ. But shouldn't that just be something like creep.type.xp = x - 2; And that's it? Like, sometimes I really really REALLY want to see the source code. Holy moly It's almost certainly not a case of just a couple of numbers being wrong, as that would be fixed really easily. The programmer at Riot was probably staring at the data and seeing something like BLUE_MINION_BASE_XP = 35 PURPLE_MINION_BASE_XP = 35 and wondering why the blue minions were giving 37 XP instead. He could just change BLUE_MINION_BASE_XP to 33 to "fix" the problem, but that's only going to cause problems down the line when the real bug gets accidentally fixed, and suddenly the blue minions are giving 2 less XP than normal. Going through the whole code and finding the root of the problem takes considerably more time. Also, Riot programmers aren't stupid, and the root bug was probably introduced while trying to fix some other bug. So the root bug gets fixed, and the original bug breaks again, and they have to go back and fix the first bug the right way, and not in a way that causes blue minions to give extra XP. Back in the alpha days of Riot, if they came across a weird bug like this a couple days before release, they probably would have just set the blue minion XP to 2 lower to quickly fix the problem since releasing quickly is more important than getting the code right. Now they're paying for all these quick fixes with obscure bugs that come up and take a lot longer to fix than if the same bugs came up on a "clean" code base. And this is EXACTLY what I think, too. One of the first things I learned about programming is that if you encounter a bug and do not fix it properly, in the end you will pay for it because the code will get messier and it will take more and more time to understand what is going on. So with all due respect, I'd say the programmers are quite incompetent. I mean, I can absolutely understand that there are deadlines, that the servers are supposed to be up and running 24/7, that all the kids out there get super angry super fast if an unwanted feature in your software is being discovered.. and thats all fine, I'd probably do the same thing. That being said, I would have expected other people do to better than me. Seriously, if one or more creeps for some unknown reason grant +2EXP compared to purple side minions, that should be one of the easiest fixes imaginable. So if it takes like 2 or 3 days to get this straight, holy moly. bushes are broken" The biggest thing you didn't cover is that vision is not a 'point to point' system; vision is based on character size. This is so a giant cho doesn't suddenly appear half way around a corner, and also so cho can 'see around' that corner a little bit. Unfortunately the algorithm doing that check isn't very good (it's what leads to the 'I can see them, they can't see me' bug) so I'm rewriting it. Otherwise you're pretty on target." Ah well. I guess Dota2 has a lot of bugs too.
I love statements like "With all due respect the programmers are incompetant."
There's no respect there. Don't act like there is.
Fixing a bug is not just a matter of changing a number from 37 to 35.
You're going to have to.
A - Figure out where the bug is. Have you ever gone through thousands and thousands of lines of code trying to find the one tiny bit of it that is incorrect? You can't just Ctrl+F for "exp bug" you have to read everything. Often things that other people wrote in a foreign language.
B - Figure out a possible solution for that bug. This might require you to edit hundreds of lines of code so that it doesn't create more bugs.
C - Test said bug internally. This is going to be more complicated than just flipping a game on and seeing if minions give the correct EXP, you're going to have to actually play entire games (on every map), and probably record those games and then watch them over again, just to make sure you didn't accidentally a new bug.
D - Roll that patch out onto the live servers, which is probably handled by an entirely different department, which means you've now got corporate timesinks of making the necessary people aware that a bug is there, that it's been fixed, that they need to update these specific server files, then they have to actually update them, etc.
If you don't think that can take potentially two or three days you're nuts. Just step A could potentially take two or three days.
So, with all due respect, I'm really glad you're not one of Riots programmers.
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Yeah I'm pretty sure Fnatic was styling with that pick, I mean Leona/Cait???
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Nah. Hg commit, pull, push, done.
+ Show Spoiler +I do have to say riot has some seriously sloppy coders.
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On September 17 2013 07:35 Slusher wrote:
Yeah I'm pretty sure Fnatic was styling with that pick, I mean Leona/Cait???
Dade's ryze way more style.
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On September 17 2013 07:25 TheYango wrote:
It's not exactly a rare belief to have lol.
But I actually made a eloquent post on the subject!
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=420729¤tpage=102#2022
On September 17 2013 07:25 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 07:19 Seuss wrote:On September 17 2013 06:40 cLutZ wrote:On September 17 2013 03:42 Seuss wrote:On September 17 2013 02:55 Don_Julio wrote:
The best part about Season 3 has been the diversified champion pool for adcs. Almost every champion that fits the role has been played in the LCS at one point.
The overbuff of Triforce completely ruined that aspect just at the right moment for Worlds. Sad. You're correct that the Trinity Force buff hasn't helped anything, but "At one point" is a tricky phrase. We saw Draven played in the LCS "at one point", but the chances of him appearing at Worlds were and are practically nil. The same can be said for many other champions who were popular picks in the LCS "at one point". What matters is the diversity that exists now, and generally speaking I don't think it's particularly great. Here are all the picks for each role so far: - Top: Kennen, Malphite, Nasus, Renekton, Rumble, Shen, Singed, Yorick, Zac
- Jungle: Aatrox, Elise, Evelynn, Jarvan, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Vi
- Mid: Ahri, Diana, Gragas, Fizz, Lissandra, Orianna, Swain, Ryze, Zed
- ADC: Caitlyn, Corki, Ezreal, Kog'maw, Vayne
- Support: Fiddlesticks, Leona, Nami, Thresh, Sona, Zyra
I've bolded those that surprised me. Out of a pool of 115 champions we've seen a total of 36, with 5 big surprises. Granted, that's only day 1, but I doubt that number is going to dramatically expand going forward. By the time Worlds is over I expect we'll see another 19 champions at most, leaving us at less than half of the available pool (which excludes Lucian). It's not a complete diversity disaster, but it could be better. Why are you surprised by Singed? Korea has been picking him into Shen for quite some time. Ryze is a surprise, mostly because he is bad, and was picked as an Ahri "counter", which he doesn't do anymore because of the range nerf. Edit: Also I feel like more people should pick Kog into Vayne, its a pretty nice play if you can swing it. I don't follow the Korean scene as much as I should, so anything people haven't been raving about (e.g. Shyvana, Mundo) I'm not necessarily going to know about. Which is part of why I went ahead and made a list. When you throw down it makes it easier for people to correct you. We've seen a few good suggestions for what I may have missed, but I'm not convinced that we'll see as many champions as CSheep anticipates. Completed unrelated, but why were you not surprised by the Leona pick? I'd expect Lulu and Blitzcrank to be picked up way before a Leona would be picked. Leona hasn't seen support play in competitive tournaments in a long while from what I recall.
Leona didn't surprise me because of the picks bans involved. At the point Leona was picked the teams looked like this:
Bans:
Kassadin Thresh
Ahri Sona
Fizz Zed
Picks:
Orianna Shen / Aatrox
Zyra / Corki Diana / Caitlyn
Jarvan IV / Lee Sin TBD
With Thresh and Sona banned the remaining choices were Blitzcrank, Fiddlesticks, Leona, Lulu, and Nami, or something off the wall. Of those, the only ones I would seriously have considered were Leona and Nami. What they bring that the other supports lacked was unfettered initiation/counter-initiation power. Diana + Aatrox/Shen is a pretty nifty combo for drawing enemies together and then CCing them, but it's risky and Diana was critical to the team's damage (especially with Fnatic's Aatrox building tank first instead of damage). With Leona and Nami, you can either follow up that initiation (making it safer) or start the initiation.
What ultimately made Leona better than Nami for the lane was damage. Nami has a lot of CC, but she actually doesn't bring all that much damage to the table. Leona, meanwhile, is a much greater damage threat even if she isn't as safe if she screws it up. That, and a much crisper ultimate, made the decision not all that surprising.
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EPT
