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On September 17 2013 02:27 Flakes wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 02:15 Ketara wrote:
Realistically, I think Riots buff/nerf ratios are fairly 50/50, or at most like 60% nerf 40% buff. The issue is people notice nerfs more than buffs and tend to be more upset about nerfs than buffs, so even if it's 60/40, it looks like 80/20 unless you actually sit back and examine it objectively.
Also when you "nerf OP" then that just means there's an opening for a new OP strat that the designers haven't identified yet. By buffing the counter to an OP strat, you create ... 'balance' e.g. back in the day when Twitch was mind-bogglingly OP but TF balanced him out with global slow+TP+stealth reveal+gold card stun
The OLD TF just was absolutely and utterly broken. The most broken champion in LoL history by far.
Twitch wasn't even close, you could focus him and he dies instantly, he also had no CC.
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Also Zuna looked good on Ezreal and Genja looked good on Kog'maw
the Triforce Effect
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GG.eu at least made teams work for it lol
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On September 17 2013 03:21 Flakes wrote:
Also Zuna looked good on Ezreal and Genja looked good on Kog'maw
the Triforce Effect
are you fucking kidding me? he was down like 40 cs, thank god he was playing Ezreal or Imp would have killed him like 4 times in lane.
or are you mabye referring to when he arcane shifted towards Mata when already in auto range in the River so when support showed up he had no escape?
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On September 17 2013 03:23 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 03:21 Flakes wrote:
Also Zuna looked good on Ezreal and Genja looked good on Kog'maw
the Triforce Effect are you fucking kidding me? he was down like 40 cs, thank god he was playing Ezreal or Imp would have killed him like 4 times in lane.
I was kinda expecting him to lol
I mean, Zuna vs. Imp?
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people are so focused on the fact that Mancloud actually blew up Dade, if you rewatch the games the sidelanes played like garbage.
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On September 17 2013 03:09 Shiznick wrote:
I think the assassin meta is fine, since most mid assassins have some form of counterpick. Corki on the other hand seems too dominant in lane or mid game compared to every other ADC.
Like Zed and Ahri?
The reason I think assassin meta is what Riot intends, is that they nerfed attackspeed, buffed AD, and made champs like Zed and Kha6. The new triforce is just an extension of assassin meta, because Corki and Ezreal are able to survive assassin meta.
So far we haven't seen any Irelia, so that means assassin meta is still intact.
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which is weird because Irelia can build SV AND Triforce.
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On September 17 2013 02:43 Slusher wrote:
I know it's early but I'm surprised we haven't seen more Lissandra, I was expecting her to be a break out at worlds. Of course we still have no idea what Dade plans to play.
Peke picked her, did relatively well considering Vulcun got 2 kills and he died right when minions already arrived in the mid of the lane, basically gg lane over.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 17 2013 03:21 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 02:27 Flakes wrote:On September 17 2013 02:15 Ketara wrote:
Realistically, I think Riots buff/nerf ratios are fairly 50/50, or at most like 60% nerf 40% buff. The issue is people notice nerfs more than buffs and tend to be more upset about nerfs than buffs, so even if it's 60/40, it looks like 80/20 unless you actually sit back and examine it objectively.
Also when you "nerf OP" then that just means there's an opening for a new OP strat that the designers haven't identified yet. By buffing the counter to an OP strat, you create ... 'balance' e.g. back in the day when Twitch was mind-bogglingly OP but TF balanced him out with global slow+TP+stealth reveal+gold card stun The OLD TF just was absolutely and utterly broken. The most broken champion in LoL history by far. Twitch wasn't even close, you could focus him and he dies instantly, he also had no CC.
I think the best part about beta TF in retrospect was that everyone maxed Teleport last.
Somehow it completely eluded people how mind-bogglingly OP a champ that could base every creep wave and TP back out was, and they instead leveled teleport once at 2 and then after the nukes were maxed.
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On September 17 2013 02:55 Don_Julio wrote:
The best part about Season 3 has been the diversified champion pool for adcs. Almost every champion that fits the role has been played in the LCS at one point.
The overbuff of Triforce completely ruined that aspect just at the right moment for Worlds. Sad.
You're correct that the Trinity Force buff hasn't helped anything, but "At one point" is a tricky phrase. We saw Draven played in the LCS "at one point", but the chances of him appearing at Worlds were and are practically nil. The same can be said for many other champions who were popular picks in the LCS "at one point".
What matters is the diversity that exists now, and generally speaking I don't think it's particularly great. Here are all the picks for each role so far:
- Top: Kennen, Malphite, Nasus, Renekton, Rumble, Shen, Singed, Yorick, Zac
- Jungle: Aatrox, Elise, Evelynn, Jarvan, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Vi
- Mid: Ahri, Diana, Gragas, Fizz, Lissandra, Orianna, Swain, Ryze, Zed
- ADC: Caitlyn, Corki, Ezreal, Kog'maw, Vayne
- Support: Fiddlesticks, Leona, Nami, Thresh, Sona, Zyra
I've bolded those that surprised me. Out of a pool of 115 champions we've seen a total of 36, with 5 big surprises. Granted, that's only day 1, but I doubt that number is going to dramatically expand going forward. By the time Worlds is over I expect we'll see another 19 champions at most, leaving us at less than half of the available pool (which excludes Lucian).
It's not a complete diversity disaster, but it could be better.
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United States37500 Posts
On September 17 2013 03:37 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 03:21 Shikyo wrote:On September 17 2013 02:27 Flakes wrote:On September 17 2013 02:15 Ketara wrote:
Realistically, I think Riots buff/nerf ratios are fairly 50/50, or at most like 60% nerf 40% buff. The issue is people notice nerfs more than buffs and tend to be more upset about nerfs than buffs, so even if it's 60/40, it looks like 80/20 unless you actually sit back and examine it objectively.
Also when you "nerf OP" then that just means there's an opening for a new OP strat that the designers haven't identified yet. By buffing the counter to an OP strat, you create ... 'balance' e.g. back in the day when Twitch was mind-bogglingly OP but TF balanced him out with global slow+TP+stealth reveal+gold card stun The OLD TF just was absolutely and utterly broken. The most broken champion in LoL history by far. Twitch wasn't even close, you could focus him and he dies instantly, he also had no CC. I think the best part about beta TF in retrospect was that everyone maxed Teleport last. Somehow it completely eluded people how mind-bogglingly OP a champ that could base every creep wave and TP back out was, and they instead leveled teleport once at 2 and then after the nukes were maxed.
Read post first, then looked up at poster name.
Was not surprised.
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On September 17 2013 03:37 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 03:21 Shikyo wrote:On September 17 2013 02:27 Flakes wrote:On September 17 2013 02:15 Ketara wrote:
Realistically, I think Riots buff/nerf ratios are fairly 50/50, or at most like 60% nerf 40% buff. The issue is people notice nerfs more than buffs and tend to be more upset about nerfs than buffs, so even if it's 60/40, it looks like 80/20 unless you actually sit back and examine it objectively.
Also when you "nerf OP" then that just means there's an opening for a new OP strat that the designers haven't identified yet. By buffing the counter to an OP strat, you create ... 'balance' e.g. back in the day when Twitch was mind-bogglingly OP but TF balanced him out with global slow+TP+stealth reveal+gold card stun The OLD TF just was absolutely and utterly broken. The most broken champion in LoL history by far. Twitch wasn't even close, you could focus him and he dies instantly, he also had no CC. I think the best part about beta TF in retrospect was that everyone maxed Teleport last. Somehow it completely eluded people how mind-bogglingly OP a champ that could base every creep wave and TP back out was, and they instead leveled teleport once at 2 and then after the nukes were maxed.
to be fair, the ability to TP to lane with fresh items every wave is nice, as you minimize your chance of dying, but you also minimize the damage you can do. i guess if you forced tiny trades into backs and TPs you could eventually wear down your opponent, but how drab would that be to actually play out? i'd be exhausted by the time i wore someone down enough to kill them 
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I expect to see at least 1 Q max Kha'zix
also Annie is a lock if not banned every game vs. Royal. Outside of that mabye a Kassadin or a Trynd? I'm suprised you didn't bold Leona I don't think we'll see her a 2nd time.
oh and if DLift is to be believed we'll see Graves soon.
add Ashe, Mundo and Jax to my probable list.
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Baa?21244 Posts
On September 17 2013 03:42 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 02:55 Don_Julio wrote:
The best part about Season 3 has been the diversified champion pool for adcs. Almost every champion that fits the role has been played in the LCS at one point.
The overbuff of Triforce completely ruined that aspect just at the right moment for Worlds. Sad. You're correct that the Trinity Force buff hasn't helped anything, but "At one point" is a tricky phrase. We saw Draven played in the LCS "at one point", but the chances of him appearing at Worlds were and are practically nil. The same can be said for many other champions who were popular picks in the LCS "at one point". What matters is the diversity that exists now, and generally speaking I don't think it's particularly great. Here are all the picks for each role so far: - Top: Kennen, Malphite, Nasus, Renekton, Rumble, Shen, Singed, Yorick, Zac
- Jungle: Aatrox, Elise, Evelynn, Jarvan, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Vi
- Mid: Ahri, Diana, Gragas, Fizz, Lissandra, Orianna, Swain, Ryze, Zed
- ADC: Caitlyn, Corki, Ezreal, Kog'maw, Vayne
- Support: Fiddlesticks, Leona, Nami, Thresh, Sona, Zyra
I've bolded those that surprised me. Out of a pool of 115 champions we've seen a total of 36, with 5 big surprises. Granted, that's only day 1, but I doubt that number is going to dramatically expand going forward. By the time Worlds is over I expect we'll see another 19 champions at most, leaving us at less than half of the available pool (which excludes Lucian). It's not a complete diversity disaster, but it could be better.
Really? I'd be surprised if less than 70 champions (somewhere around 2/3) get picked over the course of the tournament...
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United States47024 Posts
On September 17 2013 03:46 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 03:37 TheYango wrote:On September 17 2013 03:21 Shikyo wrote:On September 17 2013 02:27 Flakes wrote:On September 17 2013 02:15 Ketara wrote:
Realistically, I think Riots buff/nerf ratios are fairly 50/50, or at most like 60% nerf 40% buff. The issue is people notice nerfs more than buffs and tend to be more upset about nerfs than buffs, so even if it's 60/40, it looks like 80/20 unless you actually sit back and examine it objectively.
Also when you "nerf OP" then that just means there's an opening for a new OP strat that the designers haven't identified yet. By buffing the counter to an OP strat, you create ... 'balance' e.g. back in the day when Twitch was mind-bogglingly OP but TF balanced him out with global slow+TP+stealth reveal+gold card stun The OLD TF just was absolutely and utterly broken. The most broken champion in LoL history by far. Twitch wasn't even close, you could focus him and he dies instantly, he also had no CC. I think the best part about beta TF in retrospect was that everyone maxed Teleport last. Somehow it completely eluded people how mind-bogglingly OP a champ that could base every creep wave and TP back out was, and they instead leveled teleport once at 2 and then after the nukes were maxed. to be fair, the ability to TP to lane with fresh items every wave is nice, as you minimize your chance of dying, but you also minimize the damage you can do. i guess if you forced tiny trades into backs and TPs you could eventually wear down your opponent, but how drab would that be to actually play out? i'd be exhausted by the time i wore someone down enough to kill them
That's true. More fun to kill someone with OP PAC stun and 1:1 Wild Cards AP ratio.
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United States23745 Posts
TForce nerfs on the pbe btw. 10 less ad and bonus move speed half on ranged champs according to twitter
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United States47024 Posts
They need to just make the on-kill and on-hit MS boosts not stack like they do currently.
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proposed Triforce nerfs just went up on the PBE, reducing the attack damage, and speed boost for ranged champions.
I'd have preferred they just put it back to the old price, but I guess we'll see.
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Just change sheen proc on TF to 175% and call it a day.
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EPT
