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On August 27 2013 18:09 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
Has Riot ever given an answer as to why they shy away from activation abilities on items compared to Dota?
My hunch is they'd say something about wanting the champs to shine, not the items... but that seems silly. So any actual info/quote would be nice.
literally more then half of the playerbase doesnt use active items in teamfights
so many flasks with charges left or pots unused or even bigger important items in silver bronze etc
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Honestly, pros even forget to use pots in fights quite frequently too.
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On August 27 2013 18:09 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
Has Riot ever given an answer as to why they shy away from activation abilities on items compared to Dota?
My hunch is they'd say something about wanting the champs to shine, not the items... but that seems silly. So any actual info/quote would be nice.
I believe they did years ago, and it's because every champion is built around those items not existing. Changing it would be monumental task.
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51690 Posts
blink dagger + flash imba
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Pootie too good!4331 Posts
Zhonas can stop a ton of fizz's first combo. you have to do it right before the shark bites OR he Qs in. if he times it wrong you can negate almost all of his damage.
Things like forces staff would be broken for toxic reasons. Mid is pissed because you taxed his lane or whatever and next thing you know you get force staffed into the tower/enemy team.
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I'd be in favor of removing Flash from the game and perhaps introducing a blink dagger. Everyone having a do-over every 5 minutes is kinda boring.
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Force staff is bad because we already have flash, and built in mobility on most champions, it would start to get ridiculous/out of hand very quickly.
Also I don't think the toxic reasons are good, they could make it self or enemy cast only like Lissandra.
I just think the games already gone too far in another direction, would love to see more high impact item activated abilities, but the game couldn't handle blink dagger, force staff, sheepstick, midas, etc.
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Do people not realize in Dota that you can disable allies being able to use 'helping' abilities/items? This includes Force Staff obviously. Hell, this could be on by default...
Remove Summoner Spells, Runes, and Masteries, add in itemization that isn't just incremental
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On August 27 2013 19:41 XilDarkz wrote:
Do people not realize in Dota that you can disable allies being able to use 'helping' abilities/items? This includes Force Staff obviously. Hell, this could be on by default...
Remove Summoner Spells, Runes, and Masteries, add in itemization that isn't just incremental
I had a really sarcastic reply, but I decided it wasn't worth it.
There are plenty of other possibilities for high impact item actives. Just a bunch of them don't fit in line with Leagues design philosophy.
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On August 27 2013 19:36 Osmoses wrote:
I'd be in favor of removing Flash from the game and perhaps introducing a blink dagger. Everyone having a do-over every 5 minutes is kinda boring.
I'd be in favour of having no flash and no blink dagger. I find both frustrating to watch personally.
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Terrible ideas all around.
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All these ideas of remove flash and stuff have too great an implication on the game so I doubt you'll ever see that. What I would like to see is a greater emphasis on utility. It's often not very quantifiable so I can understand why Riot is so scared of actually going down this route but I can't help but feel they underestimate their player base far too much which causes them to intentionally hurt the potential of the game. Everything being stats gets a bit bland where as some non-quantifiable utility(ie: Force staff) brings in a whole host of new potential.
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New Item:
Unquestionable Doubt - 5000 Gold
Every 3 minutes the active of this item becomes available. Upon use it will select a random ultimate from any game at its disposable and activate upon the entire enemy team. Such effects include but are not limited to. Fizz Shark, FF7 Clouds Omnislash, Naruto's Rasengan and Luffy's Gomu Gomu Gatling Gun.
These attacks are instant and unavoidable. They also OHKO all minions within a 3 mile radius.
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On August 27 2013 19:49 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 19:41 XilDarkz wrote:
Do people not realize in Dota that you can disable allies being able to use 'helping' abilities/items? This includes Force Staff obviously. Hell, this could be on by default...
Remove Summoner Spells, Runes, and Masteries, add in itemization that isn't just incremental I had a really sarcastic reply, but I decided it wasn't worth it. There are plenty of other possibilities for high impact item actives. Just a bunch of them don't fit in line with Leagues design philosophy.
Soul Ring(dota), or for that matter, Blood Chalice? (HoN)
I don't see how these are a bad idea.
If they only want to continue in the direction they are in, they should just remove AP and AD and just make it "Power," and each item gives an amount of power that is proportional to the cost, with expensive items giving +80 power for 1600 or a cheap item giving +20 power for 435; these Power items would be the only items. Combining Power items is too complicated for new players, so there is only 5 Power items, all of which differ only in the amount of Power they give.
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I don't see soul ring being necessary in league though. Most champions don't have enough mana problems to warrant it. Also, mana regen items in league are far more sufficient than early game dota mana regen items. I also think promoting more spam wave clear shit and back off is pretty stupid. Mana management should be a thing.
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On August 27 2013 20:20 Itsmedudeman wrote:
I don't see soul ring being necessary in league though. Most champions don't have enough mana problems to warrant it. Also, mana regen items in league are far more sufficient than early game dota mana regen items. I also think promoting more spam wave clear shit and back off is pretty stupid. Mana management should be a thing.
oh, I forgot that every single champion can spam spells in lane with reckless abandon
Make it the other way around then; Sac mana, get health. SUP SON ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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IMHO, Tear and Rod of Ages (tear especially, since it is upgraded) are supposed to be the same role as Midas/Alch Bones, except they are flat out better in League than their counterparts in dota; and with Tear being so much better that its ridiculous how strong it is. I believe that Tear and RoA aren't good for League while Midas is great for Dota, and here is why:
Gold is valued only in terms of the item potential.
The correct choice for items is the choice around: 1.) spend towards an reagent item aimed at later power, 2.) spend in immediate power, 3.) save for immediate power at a later time. In not-League, the 4th choice is to prevent your gold from being lost.
The second you buy an item, your power to exert on the neutrals+enemy team immediately increases in proportion to gold saved via earlier power exertions. When you buy an item, you get better at buying future items.
This creates the dynamic that in most games, you will end up buying early items in an arms race for early objectives, secure momentum, save for big items, and spend on big items for the huge power spikes that can shift the momentum.
In Dota, this leads to the dynamic where saving your money is beneficial for the act of buying expensive items (League has an incredibly low price ceiling--1600 for single component, 3500(off the top of my head) for full item) and beneficial for the act of utilizing buy back--but detrimental if you die.
In League, Tear and Rod of Ages are (in comparison) ridiculously cheap and provide a power spike and a continuous power increase for their durations. In the case of Tear, the power spike is substantial (sustain for abilities) and for virtually free gives you a huge amount of room to extend that power; also in the case of tear, you gain a ridiculous power spike when you complete the item's final stage with 1k Mana stored. These items should be incredibly cost inefficient. Archangel's Staff is incredibly cost efficient, however. This is broken. These items encourage you to buy them early and give the additional benefit of also being an investment in later power.
There was an item this broken in Dota before: the old Bloodstone. It was completely remade and nerfed into the ground a few times but retained the fun mechanic.
What makes Midas not so broken?
Midas takes away a lot of saved gold (a large amount! That's more than a 3rd of a sheep stick or skadi or whatever highest end item); saved gold is far more valuable in Dota
Midas gives almost no power spike (maybe if you're jungling it might.)
Midas doesn't build into anything and is not end-game viable. (Rod of Ages doesnt build into anything but is end-game viable; Tear not only builds into stuff, those items are possibly among the best for end-game.)
I also believe that Mejai's and Sword of the Occult are much better than Tear and RoA, mostly because they copied the limiting factor of Bloodstone (death losing charges) and the constraints of Midas (no immediate power spike, limited end-game viability)
TL;DR:
Remove Tear or make it more like Soulstealer (Dying = lost charges) and Midas
Remove Rod of Ages or make it more expensive to complete, and its components more useful (Catalyst cough)
Buff Mejai's and Sword of the Occult; they create additional gameplay dynamics that are beneficial to players (exerting lead and encouraging good play (not dying) (focus the guy with them) and are interesting to spectators (ballsy move! will it pay off? will the enemy team shut it down?!) this also encourages more action, which league sorely lacks--Dota sees far more team fighting and action.
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On August 27 2013 18:30 FinestHour wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 18:09 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
Has Riot ever given an answer as to why they shy away from activation abilities on items compared to Dota?
My hunch is they'd say something about wanting the champs to shine, not the items... but that seems silly. So any actual info/quote would be nice. literally more then half of the playerbase doesnt use active items in teamfights
so many flasks with charges left or pots unused or even bigger important items in silver bronze etc
Where'd you get all dem LITERAL stats from? ;o
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I don't quite know how to put this in a flowing text...
There are a lot of things I feel Riot is doing right with the game, and a lot of things that could be done better.
However, time is money.
Two cents:
-Champions bring the abilities.
Want another ability?
Take a different champion.
-Somewhat linear item-scaling power curves are good.
I prefer where an item doesn't make-or-break a champion.
Having stat-based items makes this more natural, if having a lot of a stat makes or breaks the champion, it's more likely to be the champion, not the item, that is borked.
-Flash, Cleanse (at least QSS), possibly Ignite and Exhaust as well, are broken, and not in line with the seemingly design goal that champions bring the abilities.
Flash gives a new ability. QSS breaks Zed, Morde? Ignite breaks heal/leech, Exhaust is exhaust...
I guess at some point around Exhaust you have to draw a line, where do champion stats augmentation/emancipation end and an ability begin. I think Ghost is fine, as is Heal and Barrier. They add movespeed or HP, something your character already have.
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do you guys build with more focus on AS or AD for lucian?
I feel like his passive makes it so that he should get more AD but his ulti seems to benefit quite a lot more from AS
(400% more damage against minions help him to bring down minions quicker and hit the champions)
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EPT
