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On August 27 2013 11:57 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 11:54 onlywonderboy wrote:On August 27 2013 11:47 Aukai wrote:
You guys are really cruel and this is hard to read/watch. This isn't even that bad, at least MoonBear has a detailed argument instead of him just calling PX shit. Honestly this has been pretty civil so far. Oh no i don't have an issue with how moonbear handled this. apart from invoking mod powers to anyone who disagrees with him, that was rather poor form. intimidation is never a way to actually have a good discussion.
while I do think MoonBear was a bit heavy handed on how he handled this, some topics are so obviously stupid/discussed to death/disproven that they're worth simply banning from being mentioned in GD. Stuff like AD runes v. Armorpen.
Saying Armor/level runes are good is like saying naked Rapier rush is good in Dota
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On August 27 2013 13:38 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 11:57 PrinceXizor wrote:On August 27 2013 11:54 onlywonderboy wrote:On August 27 2013 11:47 Aukai wrote:
You guys are really cruel and this is hard to read/watch. This isn't even that bad, at least MoonBear has a detailed argument instead of him just calling PX shit. Honestly this has been pretty civil so far. Oh no i don't have an issue with how moonbear handled this. apart from invoking mod powers to anyone who disagrees with him, that was rather poor form. intimidation is never a way to actually have a good discussion. while I do think MoonBear was a bit heavy handed on how he handled this, some topics are so obviously stupid/discussed to death/disproven that they're worth simply banning from being mentioned in GD. Stuff like AD runes v. Armorpen. Saying Armor/level runes are good is like saying naked Rapier rush is good in Dota
Well, if you can buy a straight Rapier at that early in the game, yur auto attacks do lots of damage compared to similarly priced itemz1!!1
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On August 27 2013 13:53 Dusty wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 13:38 Ryuu314 wrote:On August 27 2013 11:57 PrinceXizor wrote:On August 27 2013 11:54 onlywonderboy wrote:On August 27 2013 11:47 Aukai wrote:
You guys are really cruel and this is hard to read/watch. This isn't even that bad, at least MoonBear has a detailed argument instead of him just calling PX shit. Honestly this has been pretty civil so far. Oh no i don't have an issue with how moonbear handled this. apart from invoking mod powers to anyone who disagrees with him, that was rather poor form. intimidation is never a way to actually have a good discussion. while I do think MoonBear was a bit heavy handed on how he handled this, some topics are so obviously stupid/discussed to death/disproven that they're worth simply banning from being mentioned in GD. Stuff like AD runes v. Armorpen. Saying Armor/level runes are good is like saying naked Rapier rush is good in Dota Well, if you can buy a straight Rapier at that early in the game, yur auto attacks do lots of damage compared to similarly priced itemz1!!1
I'm a noob to DotA2, going to try this next game.
On August 27 2013 11:57 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 11:54 onlywonderboy wrote:On August 27 2013 11:47 Aukai wrote:
You guys are really cruel and this is hard to read/watch. This isn't even that bad, at least MoonBear has a detailed argument instead of him just calling PX shit. Honestly this has been pretty civil so far. Oh no i don't have an issue with how moonbear handled this. apart from invoking mod powers to anyone who disagrees with him, that was rather poor form. intimidation is never a way to actually have a good discussion.
And good discussion doesn't spawn with shit like wit's end lucian, ohm wrecker kassidan, scaling runes always better than flat runes, e max shyv against teemo lane, and whatever bs claim.
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Dayum, wit-s end lucian then_
not the most retarded thing i've ever seen, but certainly in the top 5
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Is there anyone wits end is good on except irelia
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On August 27 2013 12:52 TheLink wrote:Show nested quote +The closer you get your target's armor to 0, the more effective and potent it becomes. Is this true? I believed this for the longest time but then there was that Reddit post arguing that every point of resistance is as valuable as every other due to effective hp. Didn't understand it at the time and still don't now but he seemed to make some good points. The diminishing returns thing (and vise versa) is apparently an illusion.
The simplest answer to any "illusion" is that a 1% increase in eHP is not a 1% decrease in damage taken.
The same way a 10% tax is not offset by a 10% sale.
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On August 27 2013 14:40 MattBarry wrote:
Is there anyone wits end is good on except irelia
Wits end no longer good on her. Botrk and triforce already take the slot. New SV more than enough mr for her needs. Wits end used to be decent with pre change shyvana, and decent single damage item on mundo.
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On August 27 2013 14:44 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 14:40 MattBarry wrote:
Is there anyone wits end is good on except irelia Wits end no longer good on her. Botrk and triforce already take the slot. New SV more than enough mr for her needs. Wits end used to be decent with pre change shyvana, and decent single damage item on mundo.
It's still decent on irelia. She likes all the stats. I find it useful against swain and kayle since mercs with Wits end makes you nearly invincible to them and AS is great
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On August 27 2013 14:49 MattBarry wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 14:44 wei2coolman wrote:On August 27 2013 14:40 MattBarry wrote:
Is there anyone wits end is good on except irelia Wits end no longer good on her. Botrk and triforce already take the slot. New SV more than enough mr for her needs. Wits end used to be decent with pre change shyvana, and decent single damage item on mundo. It's still decent on irelia. She likes all the stats. I find it useful against swain and kayle since mercs with Wits end makes you nearly invincible to them and AS is great
I'm sure there are certain situations you would find it nice in, but you should generally be able to do fine in lane with botrk or triforce start, and just build straight tank from there. Wits end is fine if you have a weird amalgamation of half offensive half defensive items. Like atamas, hex drinker, etc. But, generally you only get away with one major offensive option on Irelia. Do you really want it to be wits end?
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On August 27 2013 14:53 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 14:49 MattBarry wrote:On August 27 2013 14:44 wei2coolman wrote:On August 27 2013 14:40 MattBarry wrote:
Is there anyone wits end is good on except irelia Wits end no longer good on her. Botrk and triforce already take the slot. New SV more than enough mr for her needs. Wits end used to be decent with pre change shyvana, and decent single damage item on mundo. It's still decent on irelia. She likes all the stats. I find it useful against swain and kayle since mercs with Wits end makes you nearly invincible to them and AS is great I'm sure there are certain situations you would find it nice in, but you should generally be able to do fine in lane with botrk or triforce start, and just build straight tank from there. Wits end is fine if you have a weird amalgamation of half offensive half defensive items. Like atamas, hex drinker, etc. But, generally you only get away with one major offensive option on Irelia. Do you really want it to be wits end?
I suppose not, I usually get away with triforce and wits end cause my opponents and I are terrible though.
Speaking of which, Trinity does a ton of damage now holy shit
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On August 27 2013 14:49 MattBarry wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 14:44 wei2coolman wrote:On August 27 2013 14:40 MattBarry wrote:
Is there anyone wits end is good on except irelia Wits end no longer good on her. Botrk and triforce already take the slot. New SV more than enough mr for her needs. Wits end used to be decent with pre change shyvana, and decent single damage item on mundo. It's still decent on irelia. She likes all the stats. I find it useful against swain and kayle since mercs with Wits end makes you nearly invincible to them and AS is great
Re: Spirit Visage.
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On August 27 2013 13:53 Dusty wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 13:38 Ryuu314 wrote:On August 27 2013 11:57 PrinceXizor wrote:On August 27 2013 11:54 onlywonderboy wrote:On August 27 2013 11:47 Aukai wrote:
You guys are really cruel and this is hard to read/watch. This isn't even that bad, at least MoonBear has a detailed argument instead of him just calling PX shit. Honestly this has been pretty civil so far. Oh no i don't have an issue with how moonbear handled this. apart from invoking mod powers to anyone who disagrees with him, that was rather poor form. intimidation is never a way to actually have a good discussion. while I do think MoonBear was a bit heavy handed on how he handled this, some topics are so obviously stupid/discussed to death/disproven that they're worth simply banning from being mentioned in GD. Stuff like AD runes v. Armorpen. Saying Armor/level runes are good is like saying naked Rapier rush is good in Dota Well, if you can buy a straight Rapier at that early in the game, yur auto attacks do lots of damage compared to similarly priced itemz1!!1
This is the exact problem with PX / Anyone who posts bullshit (mainly PX. hue.)
I know absolutely fuck all about Dota (Cept i got triple kill with lich in an IH once.) and would literally read that if it wasnt so trollified and go and do it, if i played vs noobs and won, i'd advocate it and keep doing it. Its a fucking noob trap. All of these shitposts are a giant noobtrap that should be cut out of our discussions like a fucking cancer. (How long has PX been making baseless fucking statements over and over? stop them. He never backs up his claims, he never shows proof or evidence and he mysteriously disappears if anyone asks him to test it or 1v1 the situation. I use him as an example as he is the worst culprit of this.)
There are two types of people i see falling for this shit, both fall into the category of "bad" players.
1) Total newbies. Level 8, pop on TL and read Wits end is OP on your ashe, better go do it. Oh i just crushed that noob in lane, better KEEP BUILDING WITS END BECAUSE IT CLEARLY WORKS. This is literally the mindset of someone who knows nothing about the game, you'll read something from somewhere you trust, try it a couple times, if it works, you'll KEEP doing it and assume that some other factor caused losses from then on, not the build.
2) People who have no idea about the game. Same shit, they come on here and read it and rush to ranked to try it in their bronze IV division, win a game and once more advocate it. Only this time they're more open about defending it and spread the shit to more people. You cant blame them, they play casually, they take no interest in numbers or guides and just play for the lulz or whatever, but to have OUR community actively feeding them shit? WE are making them worse by default with shitposts like this.
Now ask yourselves how many people you think are lurking and fit into one of those two categories? pre-30 or scrub-level? A damn lot of them i can tell you. It isnt just the 50 of us in this subforum, we're just the only ones who post on a regular basis.
We are actively making these players worse by feeding them bullshit like this and allowing it to go on (Only yourselves to blame for those bads in ranked huehuehue). Needs to stop. Its a shame that it just wont.
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On August 27 2013 15:17 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 13:53 Dusty wrote:On August 27 2013 13:38 Ryuu314 wrote:On August 27 2013 11:57 PrinceXizor wrote:On August 27 2013 11:54 onlywonderboy wrote:On August 27 2013 11:47 Aukai wrote:
You guys are really cruel and this is hard to read/watch. This isn't even that bad, at least MoonBear has a detailed argument instead of him just calling PX shit. Honestly this has been pretty civil so far. Oh no i don't have an issue with how moonbear handled this. apart from invoking mod powers to anyone who disagrees with him, that was rather poor form. intimidation is never a way to actually have a good discussion. while I do think MoonBear was a bit heavy handed on how he handled this, some topics are so obviously stupid/discussed to death/disproven that they're worth simply banning from being mentioned in GD. Stuff like AD runes v. Armorpen. Saying Armor/level runes are good is like saying naked Rapier rush is good in Dota Well, if you can buy a straight Rapier at that early in the game, yur auto attacks do lots of damage compared to similarly priced itemz1!!1 This is the exact problem with PX / Anyone who posts bullshit (mainly PX. hue.) I know absolutely fuck all about Dota (Cept i got triple kill with lich in an IH once.) and would literally read that if it wasnt so trollified and go and do it, if i played vs noobs and won, i'd advocate it and keep doing it. Its a fucking noob trap. All of these shitposts are a giant noobtrap that should be cut out of our discussions like a fucking cancer. (How long has PX been making baseless fucking statements over and over? stop them. He never backs up his claims, he never shows proof or evidence and he mysteriously disappears if anyone asks him to test it or 1v1 the situation. I use him as an example as he is the worst culprit of this.) There are two types of people i see falling for this shit, both fall into the category of "bad" players. 1) Total newbies. Level 8, pop on TL and read Wits end is OP on your ashe, better go do it. Oh i just crushed that noob in lane, better KEEP BUILDING WITS END BECAUSE IT CLEARLY WORKS. This is literally the mindset of someone who knows nothing about the game, you'll read something from somewhere you trust, try it a couple times, if it works, you'll KEEP doing it and assume that some other factor caused losses from then on, not the build. 2) People who have no idea about the game. Same shit, they come on here and read it and rush to ranked to try it in their bronze IV division, win a game and once more advocate it. Only this time they're more open about defending it and spread the shit to more people. You cant blame them, they play casually, they take no interest in numbers or guides and just play for the lulz or whatever, but to have OUR community actively feeding them shit? WE are making them worse by default with shitposts like this. Now ask yourselves how many people you think are lurking and fit into one of those two categories? pre-30 or scrub-level? A damn lot of them i can tell you. It isnt just the 50 of us in this subforum, we're just the only ones who post on a regular basis. We are actively making these players worse by feeding them bullshit like this and allowing it to go on (Only yourselves to blame for those bads in ranked huehuehue). Needs to stop. Its a shame that it just wont.
By the way, this is kinda how I feel when I go to the DOta 2 forums. The only characters I get are Drow and Windrunner.
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On August 27 2013 15:06 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 14:49 MattBarry wrote:On August 27 2013 14:44 wei2coolman wrote:On August 27 2013 14:40 MattBarry wrote:
Is there anyone wits end is good on except irelia Wits end no longer good on her. Botrk and triforce already take the slot. New SV more than enough mr for her needs. Wits end used to be decent with pre change shyvana, and decent single damage item on mundo. It's still decent on irelia. She likes all the stats. I find it useful against swain and kayle since mercs with Wits end makes you nearly invincible to them and AS is great Re: Spirit Visage.
I'm still stupidly irked they made SV this fucking good. SV used to be a niche item that was nice for a subset of champion, back when it built out of null magic mantle. Then the change to the build path for it with Negatron cloak, along with power creep for certain sustain champs made SV pretty powerful buy for those champions that could use it. Now it's essentially a fucking cure-all MR item.
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Australia18228 Posts
On August 27 2013 15:29 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 15:06 sylverfyre wrote:On August 27 2013 14:49 MattBarry wrote:On August 27 2013 14:44 wei2coolman wrote:On August 27 2013 14:40 MattBarry wrote:
Is there anyone wits end is good on except irelia Wits end no longer good on her. Botrk and triforce already take the slot. New SV more than enough mr for her needs. Wits end used to be decent with pre change shyvana, and decent single damage item on mundo. It's still decent on irelia. She likes all the stats. I find it useful against swain and kayle since mercs with Wits end makes you nearly invincible to them and AS is great Re: Spirit Visage. I'm still stupidly irked they made SV this fucking good. SV used to be a niche item that was nice for a subset of champion, back when it built out of null magic mantle. Then the change to the build path for it with Negatron cloak, along with power creep for certain sustain champs made SV pretty powerful buy for those champions that could use it. Now it's essentially a fucking cure-all MR item.
Wasn't that Riot's intention? Pretty sure they stated they wanted SV to be the "late-game" MR item after they removed FoN.
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On August 27 2013 15:53 Inflicted_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 15:29 wei2coolman wrote:On August 27 2013 15:06 sylverfyre wrote:On August 27 2013 14:49 MattBarry wrote:On August 27 2013 14:44 wei2coolman wrote:On August 27 2013 14:40 MattBarry wrote:
Is there anyone wits end is good on except irelia Wits end no longer good on her. Botrk and triforce already take the slot. New SV more than enough mr for her needs. Wits end used to be decent with pre change shyvana, and decent single damage item on mundo. It's still decent on irelia. She likes all the stats. I find it useful against swain and kayle since mercs with Wits end makes you nearly invincible to them and AS is great Re: Spirit Visage. I'm still stupidly irked they made SV this fucking good. SV used to be a niche item that was nice for a subset of champion, back when it built out of null magic mantle. Then the change to the build path for it with Negatron cloak, along with power creep for certain sustain champs made SV pretty powerful buy for those champions that could use it. Now it's essentially a fucking cure-all MR item. Wasn't that Riot's intention? Pretty sure they stated they wanted SV to be the "late-game" MR item after they removed FoN.
They removed FoN for that very reason. lol.
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On August 27 2013 15:54 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 15:53 Inflicted_ wrote:On August 27 2013 15:29 wei2coolman wrote:On August 27 2013 15:06 sylverfyre wrote:On August 27 2013 14:49 MattBarry wrote:On August 27 2013 14:44 wei2coolman wrote:On August 27 2013 14:40 MattBarry wrote:
Is there anyone wits end is good on except irelia Wits end no longer good on her. Botrk and triforce already take the slot. New SV more than enough mr for her needs. Wits end used to be decent with pre change shyvana, and decent single damage item on mundo. It's still decent on irelia. She likes all the stats. I find it useful against swain and kayle since mercs with Wits end makes you nearly invincible to them and AS is great Re: Spirit Visage. I'm still stupidly irked they made SV this fucking good. SV used to be a niche item that was nice for a subset of champion, back when it built out of null magic mantle. Then the change to the build path for it with Negatron cloak, along with power creep for certain sustain champs made SV pretty powerful buy for those champions that could use it. Now it's essentially a fucking cure-all MR item. Wasn't that Riot's intention? Pretty sure they stated they wanted SV to be the "late-game" MR item after they removed FoN. They removed FoN for that very reason. lol.
Well, their rationale was also that FoN gave a hodgepodge of stats that "made no sense," which I can kind of appreciate. It gave move speed, which was kind of weird for a defensive item. FoN also gave a crapton of regen, which was essentially moved to Warmog's since Riot wanted Warmog's to fill that role. Then it gave a crapload of MR. You also have to keep in mind that at the time, Banshee's was considered OP as fuck and everyone and their mother bought Banshees as the one-stop shop for MR. As a result, FoN, although it was built from time to time, really didn't fit any niche that well(outside of Singed/Mundo builds).
I am sad they removed FoN though. I would've liked to see them keep the item. Having a movespeed+defensive stat item is pretty neat, even if odd.
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On August 27 2013 16:05 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 15:54 wei2coolman wrote:On August 27 2013 15:53 Inflicted_ wrote:On August 27 2013 15:29 wei2coolman wrote:On August 27 2013 15:06 sylverfyre wrote:On August 27 2013 14:49 MattBarry wrote:On August 27 2013 14:44 wei2coolman wrote:On August 27 2013 14:40 MattBarry wrote:
Is there anyone wits end is good on except irelia Wits end no longer good on her. Botrk and triforce already take the slot. New SV more than enough mr for her needs. Wits end used to be decent with pre change shyvana, and decent single damage item on mundo. It's still decent on irelia. She likes all the stats. I find it useful against swain and kayle since mercs with Wits end makes you nearly invincible to them and AS is great Re: Spirit Visage. I'm still stupidly irked they made SV this fucking good. SV used to be a niche item that was nice for a subset of champion, back when it built out of null magic mantle. Then the change to the build path for it with Negatron cloak, along with power creep for certain sustain champs made SV pretty powerful buy for those champions that could use it. Now it's essentially a fucking cure-all MR item. Wasn't that Riot's intention? Pretty sure they stated they wanted SV to be the "late-game" MR item after they removed FoN. They removed FoN for that very reason. lol. Well, their rationale was also that FoN gave a hodgepodge of stats that "made no sense," which I can kind of appreciate. It gave move speed, which was kind of weird for a defensive item. FoN also gave a crapton of regen, which was essentially moved to Warmog's since Riot wanted Warmog's to fill that role. Then it gave a crapload of MR. You also have to keep in mind that at the time, Banshee's was considered OP as fuck and everyone and their mother bought Banshees as the one-stop shop for MR. As a result, FoN, although it was built from time to time, really didn't fit any niche that well(outside of Singed/Mundo builds). I am sad they removed FoN though. I would've liked to see them keep the item. Having a movespeed+defensive stat item is pretty neat, even if odd.
How did it "make no sense"? I thought the movespeed stats/regen/mr all fit a item design. Force of Nature, the movespeed being wind, MR being earthy, and regen being naturey. It all made sense.
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Just a crazy thought. So leona's passive procs based on the proccer's mpen. Play corki leona lane, and run hybrid pen on corki. Fucking BAM. All dat dmg.
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On August 27 2013 16:13 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 16:05 Ryuu314 wrote:On August 27 2013 15:54 wei2coolman wrote:On August 27 2013 15:53 Inflicted_ wrote:On August 27 2013 15:29 wei2coolman wrote:On August 27 2013 15:06 sylverfyre wrote:On August 27 2013 14:49 MattBarry wrote:On August 27 2013 14:44 wei2coolman wrote:On August 27 2013 14:40 MattBarry wrote:
Is there anyone wits end is good on except irelia Wits end no longer good on her. Botrk and triforce already take the slot. New SV more than enough mr for her needs. Wits end used to be decent with pre change shyvana, and decent single damage item on mundo. It's still decent on irelia. She likes all the stats. I find it useful against swain and kayle since mercs with Wits end makes you nearly invincible to them and AS is great Re: Spirit Visage. I'm still stupidly irked they made SV this fucking good. SV used to be a niche item that was nice for a subset of champion, back when it built out of null magic mantle. Then the change to the build path for it with Negatron cloak, along with power creep for certain sustain champs made SV pretty powerful buy for those champions that could use it. Now it's essentially a fucking cure-all MR item. Wasn't that Riot's intention? Pretty sure they stated they wanted SV to be the "late-game" MR item after they removed FoN. They removed FoN for that very reason. lol. Well, their rationale was also that FoN gave a hodgepodge of stats that "made no sense," which I can kind of appreciate. It gave move speed, which was kind of weird for a defensive item. FoN also gave a crapton of regen, which was essentially moved to Warmog's since Riot wanted Warmog's to fill that role. Then it gave a crapload of MR. You also have to keep in mind that at the time, Banshee's was considered OP as fuck and everyone and their mother bought Banshees as the one-stop shop for MR. As a result, FoN, although it was built from time to time, really didn't fit any niche that well(outside of Singed/Mundo builds). I am sad they removed FoN though. I would've liked to see them keep the item. Having a movespeed+defensive stat item is pretty neat, even if odd. How did it "make no sense"? I thought the movespeed stats/regen/mr all fit a item design. Force of Nature, the movespeed being wind, MR being earthy, and regen being naturey. It all made sense.
Because Riot still doesnt understand the power of movespeed, and FON was removed during the era when they introduced the absurd Black Cleaver, which means that they probably didnt understand the balance between double AP and double AD comps at the time, and thought that AP was too strong (it wasnt) and AD too weak (also wrong).
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EPT
