EPT[Patch 3.10a: Worlds Balance] General Discussion - Page 76
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
It's a utility/dueling ult. It gives him the ability to safely damage people at very long range, control objectives, win 1v1's, kite somebody with randuins easily, etc. And for that sort of an ult it does pretty amazing damage. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On August 27 2013 23:42 onlywonderboy wrote: The thing is I'm not sure if it matters his ult is "weak." It serves its purpose in the laning phase and helps him be a bully. He still does pretty good damage as the game goes on by utilizing his abilities + his passive. In a siege situation it helps clear out minion waves and put some damage on the enemy. It's not really a team fight ult like Bullet Time, nor do I feel it needs to be. Except even in comparison to bullet time at bullying people it is weak. Back in the day that is what MF ult used to be, before it had an AD ratio and did physical damage, and it was a lot easier to use and a lot stronger. Same rage, same mana costs, less damage almost guaranteed, as well as less utility throughout the game, and signifigant less strength late game. Only real saving grace for the culling is it has a lower CD. Aside from chasing/kiting someone with Randuins there is not a single situation in which it is better. There is not a single situation in which I'd rather have The Culling. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On August 27 2013 23:50 iCanada wrote: Except even in comparison to bullet time at bullying people it is weak. Back in the day that is what MF ult used to be, before it had an AD ratio and did physical damage, and it was a lot easier to use and a lot stronger. Same rage, same mana costs, less damage almost guaranteed, as well as less utility throughout the game, and signifigant less strength late game. Only real saving grace for the culling is it has a lower CD. Then stop comparing Bullet Time and The Culling (god that name is terrible). Also we shouldn't look at his ult in a vacuum. His whole kit is good at being a lane bully, having The Culling being weaker (and different) than Bullet Time could easily be a balance issue. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On August 27 2013 23:55 onlywonderboy wrote: Then stop comparing Bullet Time and The Culling (god that name is terrible). His whole kit is good at being a lane bully, having The Culling being weaker (and different) than Bullet Time could easily be a balance issue. So why am I not allowed to say that The Culling is a weak ult? I dont understand. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Galio's kit isn't exceptional, his ult however is super powerful. Cait's ult is underwhelming, her base stats (which include range) and kit are very good. You can't just compare 2 ults from 2 different champions, you've got to look at the whole picture. Also on the topic of weird names Renekton's Q is "Cull the Meek".  | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On August 27 2013 23:50 iCanada wrote: Except even in comparison to bullet time at bullying people it is weak. Back in the day that is what MF ult used to be, before it had an AD ratio and did physical damage, and it was a lot easier to use and a lot stronger. Same rage, same mana costs, less damage almost guaranteed, as well as less utility throughout the game, and signifigant less strength late game. Only real saving grace for the culling is it has a lower CD. Aside from chasing/kiting someone with Randuins there is not a single situation in which it is better. There is not a single situation in which I'd rather have The Culling. Uhh... just fact-check complaints here: MF has always had an AD ratio. It was actually pretty ridiculously strong on release because the aoe was HUUUUUUUUUUGE. It got nerfed several times before getting buffed in some small ways (one buff was that it no longer took the higher of your AP or AD scaling but always took both, which was mostly irrelevant and is probably what you're thinking about when you say "before it had an AD Ratio") The thing is, MF and Lucian have different kits and duel people differently. Lucian's got quite a lot of mobility (a slowcleanse on an AD carry? Why aren't people realizing how good that is?) On August 27 2013 23:58 iCanada wrote: So why am I not allowed to say that The Culling is a weak ult? I dont understand. Totally allowed to say that. But having a weak ult doesn't totally break an AD carry's kit. You can't have MF's ult (or Twitch's ult) on Lucian's kit. That doesn't mean Lucian is bad because his ult isnt a high-cooldown, crazy good at teamfighting, AOE ult. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On August 27 2013 16:59 FinestHour wrote: ya man getting 100 to 0 by rengar in .5 seconds is anti fun as hell So is getting kited for 30 seconds while carrying frozen mallet on Jax. Shitty ranged champs and their billion snares/shields/escapes/slows. On August 27 2013 17:34 cLutZ wrote: That is kind of the LOL problem in a nutshell. Rengar 100-0 Potential is against the design philosophy. But also, Rengar infinite sustain is even more against design philosophy. And we knew this years before Rengar existed. Then, post Rengar, we createe=d more Rengar #1 characters. Why? There's no assassin quite like Rengar because he can stealth and jungle. But they did introduce Sejuani and Hecarim which now prevents one side from banning out aoe initiate junglers like shen with flash, malphite, amumu. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
I never said Lucian had a weak kit, I like lucians kit. In fact he my new favorite AD carry. Hold you horses. I say The Culling is a weak ult, someone tells me no when in fact it is a weak ult, and then suddenly five different people think I think Lucians Kit sucks, when I just said his ult is pretty weak. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On August 28 2013 00:07 iCanada wrote: Man, PX made this forum so incredibly passive aggressive and assuming. I never said Lucian had a weak kit, I like lucians kit. In fact he my new favorite AD carry. Hold you horses. I say The Culling is a weak ult, someone tells me no when in fact it is a weak ult, and then suddenly five different people think I think Lucians Kit sucks, when I just said his ult is pretty weak. Yeah, sorry. I've had arguments with others about Lucian being a weak AD carry because his ult is lackluster. I agree his ult isn't super strong, but his kit on the whole is pretty dang strong and he has a mediocre but interesting ult. (People will just need to realize you can't itemize 100% for his ulti >_> He isn't Miss Fortune, nor is he trying to be.) | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On August 28 2013 00:07 iCanada wrote: Man, PX made this forum so incredibly passive aggressive and assuming. I never said Lucian had a weak kit, I like lucians kit. In fact he my new favorite AD carry. Hold you horses. I say The Culling is a weak ult, someone tells me no when in fact it is a weak ult, and then suddenly five different people think I think Lucians Kit sucks, when I just said his ult is pretty weak. I think we talked a lot about Lucian's ult during PBE so maybe Riot overnerfed? | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On August 28 2013 00:07 iCanada wrote: Man, PX made this forum so incredibly passive aggressive and assuming. I never said Lucian had a weak kit, I like lucians kit. In fact he my new favorite AD carry. Hold you horses. I say The Culling is a weak ult, someone tells me no when in fact it is a weak ult, and then suddenly five different people think I think Lucians Kit sucks, when I just said his ult is pretty weak. Sorry, I'm not trying to come off as passive aggressive. I just don't understand why we think his ult needs buffed when it's perfectly fine in the context of his kit (which you made suggestions of potential buffs). That's all. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On August 28 2013 00:10 obesechicken13 wrote: I think we talked a lot about Lucian's ult during PBE so maybe Riot overnerfed? AFAIK The numbers on the PBE weren't THAT different, except for that rather large AP ratio that they removed, and the interaction with SOTD. (Though it still plays nice with the ghostblade active :D???) People were looking at huge SOTD active+600 AP build ulti numbers (10k physical damage, but can't do anything with ult on CD... that's not a realistic build people.) | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
@ Sylverfyre, to that I say Lich Bane and Nashors, and his (small) AP ratio on W. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
... oh, wait, that guy has sustain from level 1, is manaless, has bigger base damage than me, a revive passive and he's not bad at pushing either. T_T On a more constructive note, I'm not really sure what to do with Swain now. RoA seems like it tales so long to cash in, especially when you're supposed to be a bully using early power. Tear was already pretty iffy on him, now it's even worse since the nerf. Archangel's staff is supposedly buffed but it's not an item you can afford to rush on Swain. Also his ult really suffers from its cooldown, compared to, say, Anivia's (10 to 6) for quick toggles. I heard Haunting Guise's working pretty well but he still needs mana anyway. So... RoA first item regardless, and then onto core like Zhonya's or Abyssal, with stuff like Guise or Deathcap doable too depending on how uber-fed you are? I'm wondering if Exhaust couldn't beat Ignite for him too. Slow helps with getting out/keeping people in aa/ult range, the mastery helps with dealing more damage early on anyway, plus the damage reduction helps mid survive the initial burst until his ult kicks in. | ||
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wussleeQ
United States3130 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
Take free elo to bank. | ||
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