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On August 28 2013 00:10 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 00:07 iCanada wrote:
Man, PX made this forum so incredibly passive aggressive and assuming.
I never said Lucian had a weak kit, I like lucians kit. In fact he my new favorite AD carry. Hold you horses.
I say The Culling is a weak ult, someone tells me no when in fact it is a weak ult, and then suddenly five different people think I think Lucians Kit sucks, when I just said his ult is pretty weak. Yeah, sorry. I've had arguments with others about Lucian being a weak AD carry because his ult is lackluster. I agree his ult isn't super strong, but his kit on the whole is pretty dang strong and he has a mediocre but interesting ult. (People will just need to realize you can't itemize 100% for his ulti >_> He isn't Miss Fortune, nor is he trying to be.)
I'm probably the most vocal "Lucian isn't that great" person. Generally my two biggest arguments have been:- His ult falls off past the early game. You basically shouldn't use it in a teamfight until you're either running away or chasing, at which point the fight has already been won/lost. At least it can clear creep waves.
- His W is really clunky. To be honest I feel like this is his worst/least interesting ability. You still have to itemize for movement/attack speed because even with this and his dash you still can't chase someone down without PD/Shiv/TF and Red.
He has a few minor issues on top of that. His E would be fine in a kit with a stronger W and R, but as it stands it looks bad.
But as I've said a number of times, I just haven't seen Lucian do well past the early game. Maybe people (including me) just haven't figured him out yet, and when they do he'll be OP.
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On August 28 2013 00:44 Alaric wrote:
Urgh. Playing Swain against Zac top made me so sad. I mean, I'm the dude who's supposed to have high base damage and high-sustain, out-lasting people rather than bursting them down!
... oh, wait, that guy has sustain from level 1, is manaless, has bigger base damage than me, a revive passive and he's not bad at pushing either.
T_T
On a more constructive note, I'm not really sure what to do with Swain now. RoA seems like it tales so long to cash in, especially when you're supposed to be a bully using early power.
Tear was already pretty iffy on him, now it's even worse since the nerf. Archangel's staff is supposedly buffed but it's not an item you can afford to rush on Swain. Also his ult really suffers from its cooldown, compared to, say, Anivia's (10 to 6) for quick toggles.
I heard Haunting Guise's working pretty well but he still needs mana anyway.
So... RoA first item regardless, and then onto core like Zhonya's or Abyssal, with stuff like Guise or Deathcap doable too depending on how uber-fed you are?
I'm wondering if Exhaust couldn't beat Ignite for him too. Slow helps with getting out/keeping people in aa/ult range, the mastery helps with dealing more damage early on anyway, plus the damage reduction helps mid survive the initial burst until his ult kicks in.
I think with swain you can't go wrong with athenes zhonyas.
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It sounds like Lucian's ult should be used for cleanup rather than as an opener. Kind of the opposite of Miss Fortune.
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On August 28 2013 01:00 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 00:10 sylverfyre wrote:On August 28 2013 00:07 iCanada wrote:
Man, PX made this forum so incredibly passive aggressive and assuming.
I never said Lucian had a weak kit, I like lucians kit. In fact he my new favorite AD carry. Hold you horses.
I say The Culling is a weak ult, someone tells me no when in fact it is a weak ult, and then suddenly five different people think I think Lucians Kit sucks, when I just said his ult is pretty weak. Yeah, sorry. I've had arguments with others about Lucian being a weak AD carry because his ult is lackluster. I agree his ult isn't super strong, but his kit on the whole is pretty dang strong and he has a mediocre but interesting ult. (People will just need to realize you can't itemize 100% for his ulti >_> He isn't Miss Fortune, nor is he trying to be.) I'm probably the most vocal "Lucian isn't that great" person. Generally my two biggest arguments have been: - His ult falls off past the early game. You basically shouldn't use it in a teamfight until you're either running away or chasing, at which point the fight has already been won/lost. At least it can clear creep waves.
- His W is really clunky. To be honest I feel like this is his worst/least interesting ability. You still have to itemize for movement/attack speed because even with this and his dash you still can't chase someone down without PD/Shiv/TF and Red.
He has a few minor issues on top of that. His E would be fine in a kit with a stronger W and R, but as it stands it looks bad. But as I've said a number of times, I just haven't seen Lucian do well past the early game. Maybe people (including me) just haven't figured him out yet, and when they do he'll be OP.
Dude. I'm with you. The lack of steroids is pretty big deal. Though his passive had some promise, but his cd's are a tad bit too long to make his passive as interesting.
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General consensus is if you are somehow getting some money on Zyra/Lulu/Fiddle as support and you want to build some damage, MPen items are the way to go on them?
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On August 28 2013 01:09 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 01:00 Seuss wrote:On August 28 2013 00:10 sylverfyre wrote:On August 28 2013 00:07 iCanada wrote:
Man, PX made this forum so incredibly passive aggressive and assuming.
I never said Lucian had a weak kit, I like lucians kit. In fact he my new favorite AD carry. Hold you horses.
I say The Culling is a weak ult, someone tells me no when in fact it is a weak ult, and then suddenly five different people think I think Lucians Kit sucks, when I just said his ult is pretty weak. Yeah, sorry. I've had arguments with others about Lucian being a weak AD carry because his ult is lackluster. I agree his ult isn't super strong, but his kit on the whole is pretty dang strong and he has a mediocre but interesting ult. (People will just need to realize you can't itemize 100% for his ulti >_> He isn't Miss Fortune, nor is he trying to be.) I'm probably the most vocal "Lucian isn't that great" person. Generally my two biggest arguments have been: - His ult falls off past the early game. You basically shouldn't use it in a teamfight until you're either running away or chasing, at which point the fight has already been won/lost. At least it can clear creep waves.
- His W is really clunky. To be honest I feel like this is his worst/least interesting ability. You still have to itemize for movement/attack speed because even with this and his dash you still can't chase someone down without PD/Shiv/TF and Red.
He has a few minor issues on top of that. His E would be fine in a kit with a stronger W and R, but as it stands it looks bad. But as I've said a number of times, I just haven't seen Lucian do well past the early game. Maybe people (including me) just haven't figured him out yet, and when they do he'll be OP. Dude. I'm with you. The lack of steroids is pretty big deal. Though his passive had some promise, but his cd's are a tad bit too long to make his passive as interesting.
Running away or chasing doesn't mean the fight's already done. Literally every team fight has some amount of kiting in it, and Lucian's ult is great kite deterrent. I'm sorry Seuss I don't agree.
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On August 28 2013 01:14 sung_moon wrote:
General consensus is if you are somehow getting some money on Zyra/Lulu/Fiddle as support and you want to build some damage, MPen items are the way to go on them?
Yeah but don't think damage is good on lulu.Rather get cdr/shur/crucible.I go morelo/guice/sorc boots all the time on zyra.
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People only hate Flash as an escape right?
Think Riot would ever add the Blink Dagger timer?
If not, they can make it enemy-targeted so you can only use it to initiate.
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On August 28 2013 00:48 wei2coolman wrote:
Pick zac instead of swain.
Take free elo to bank.
How about I play champs I actually enjoy?  Zac is not fun to me. He's broken as fuck, but he's not fun, even though I'm a sucker for tanky guys that don't die. Mundo, Shen, Udyr, etc. are far higher on the entertainment scale.
I'm bad with Swain (his aa is so clunky, and even though the lag is almost entirely gone the windup is pretty horrible, so his passive and his reliance on farm don't go well with me) so I'm just playing normals anyway.
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I think Lucian is pretty good, but his q not being castable on the ground, his weird w hitbox, and his janky ult all make him hard to use. And how exactly to itemize him optimally isn't the most obvious thing.
If you don't care about getting a defensive item, something like Ghostblade/BotRK/Zephyr/IE/LW/Ionians is pretty hilarious. 35% CDR, BotRK hits twice when your passive double tap goes off, ghostblade helps you chase/kill. Chews through everything really quickly.
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On August 28 2013 01:16 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 01:14 sung_moon wrote:
General consensus is if you are somehow getting some money on Zyra/Lulu/Fiddle as support and you want to build some damage, MPen items are the way to go on them? Yeah but don't think damage is good on lulu.Rather get cdr/shur/crucible.I go morelo/guice/sorc boots all the time on zyra.
If you happen to be swimming in scrooge mcduck money as a support zyra, liandries is just absurdly good. I'm not sure how you would ever roust that much cash though. Speaking of impractical ideas of questionable value, Spirit Visage on soraka is glorious.
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Lucian feels like a mix between MF and ezreal. Moderate lane bully with some kiting ability, but not as good a lane bully as MF nor as effective at kiting as ezreal.
He seems kinda meh to me.
Also next hero to purchase?
Nocturne -> I main jungle and like globals
Sona -> seems like fun support + I like game changing ultimates
Renekton-> looks like relatively safe lane bully
Vlad -> so I can beat shen / malphite
Karma -> because karma
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On August 28 2013 01:25 Haiq343 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 01:16 nafta wrote:On August 28 2013 01:14 sung_moon wrote:
General consensus is if you are somehow getting some money on Zyra/Lulu/Fiddle as support and you want to build some damage, MPen items are the way to go on them? Yeah but don't think damage is good on lulu.Rather get cdr/shur/crucible.I go morelo/guice/sorc boots all the time on zyra. If you happen to be swimming in scrooge mcduck money as a support zyra, liandries is just absurdly good. I'm not sure how you would ever roust that much cash though. Speaking of impractical ideas of questionable value, Spirit Visage on soraka is glorious.
Oh yeah that's after morelo though.It seems really easy to get fed as zyra.Pretty much every game I've played with her even some starting 0/5/0 I got 2/3 actual items.
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On August 28 2013 01:26 Mauzel wrote:Also next hero to purchase?
Nocturne -> I main jungle and like globals
Sona -> seems like fun support + I like game changing ultimates
Renekton-> looks like relatively safe lane bully
Vlad -> so I can beat shen / malphite
Karma -> because karma
Given what you've said, I'd probably go Nocturne>Renekton>Sona.
Vlad vs Malphite isn't exactly a walkover.
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On August 28 2013 01:14 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 01:09 wei2coolman wrote:On August 28 2013 01:00 Seuss wrote:On August 28 2013 00:10 sylverfyre wrote:On August 28 2013 00:07 iCanada wrote:
Man, PX made this forum so incredibly passive aggressive and assuming.
I never said Lucian had a weak kit, I like lucians kit. In fact he my new favorite AD carry. Hold you horses.
I say The Culling is a weak ult, someone tells me no when in fact it is a weak ult, and then suddenly five different people think I think Lucians Kit sucks, when I just said his ult is pretty weak. Yeah, sorry. I've had arguments with others about Lucian being a weak AD carry because his ult is lackluster. I agree his ult isn't super strong, but his kit on the whole is pretty dang strong and he has a mediocre but interesting ult. (People will just need to realize you can't itemize 100% for his ulti >_> He isn't Miss Fortune, nor is he trying to be.) I'm probably the most vocal "Lucian isn't that great" person. Generally my two biggest arguments have been: - His ult falls off past the early game. You basically shouldn't use it in a teamfight until you're either running away or chasing, at which point the fight has already been won/lost. At least it can clear creep waves.
- His W is really clunky. To be honest I feel like this is his worst/least interesting ability. You still have to itemize for movement/attack speed because even with this and his dash you still can't chase someone down without PD/Shiv/TF and Red.
He has a few minor issues on top of that. His E would be fine in a kit with a stronger W and R, but as it stands it looks bad. But as I've said a number of times, I just haven't seen Lucian do well past the early game. Maybe people (including me) just haven't figured him out yet, and when they do he'll be OP. Dude. I'm with you. The lack of steroids is pretty big deal. Though his passive had some promise, but his cd's are a tad bit too long to make his passive as interesting. Running away or chasing doesn't mean the fight's already done. Literally every team fight has some amount of kiting in it, and Lucian's ult is great kite deterrent. I'm sorry Seuss I don't agree.
As if disagreeing with me about a character released less than a week ago is a big deal.
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Vlad's not actually a huge counter to Malph. His shield and harass (which he'll sustain with a chalice) means he actually out trades Vlad, especially early. When Vlad gets going and can start sustain/waveclearing by late lane phase, sure, but by then Malph's built up a large lead, and will probably have gone tanky AP to counter you and done teleport ganks and stuff. That passive shield mang.
Shen matchup after nerfs put him behind. However, as Vlad, play passive until at least level 5. After that, you'll start coming ahead.
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On August 28 2013 01:26 Mauzel wrote:
Lucian feels like a mix between MF and ezreal. Moderate lane bully with some kiting ability, but not as good a lane bully as MF nor as effective at kiting as ezreal.
He seems kinda meh to me.
Also next hero to purchase?
Nocturne -> I main jungle and like globals
Sona -> seems like fun support + I like game changing ultimates
Renekton-> looks like relatively safe lane bully
Vlad -> so I can beat shen / malphite
Karma -> because karma
Sona is (imo) a super boring champion. Auto-Q-Auto is about all you do in lane, and while it hurts a ton there's not a lot of variety. Later she's really just a walking crescendo, and if you're good utilizing the heal power cord as another exhaust for your carry. It's not that sona's not powerful, she most certainly is, but her auras as implemented are pretty brainless and don't require much in the way of participatory gameplay.
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On August 28 2013 01:26 Mauzel wrote:
Lucian feels like a mix between MF and ezreal. Moderate lane bully with some kiting ability, but not as good a lane bully as MF nor as effective at kiting as ezreal.
You'll be far more successful looking at him like corki than mf or ezreal
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On August 28 2013 01:58 Haiq343 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 01:26 Mauzel wrote:
Lucian feels like a mix between MF and ezreal. Moderate lane bully with some kiting ability, but not as good a lane bully as MF nor as effective at kiting as ezreal.
He seems kinda meh to me.
Also next hero to purchase?
Nocturne -> I main jungle and like globals
Sona -> seems like fun support + I like game changing ultimates
Renekton-> looks like relatively safe lane bully
Vlad -> so I can beat shen / malphite
Karma -> because karma Sona is (imo) a super boring champion. Auto-Q-Auto is about all you do in lane, and while it hurts a ton there's not a lot of variety. Later she's really just a walking crescendo, and if you're good utilizing the heal power cord as another exhaust for your carry. It's not that sona's not powerful, she most certainly is, but her auras as implemented are pretty brainless and don't require much in the way of participatory gameplay.
See it as an opportunity to work on your map awareness and objective/ward timing in chat then.
Never felt Sona was too boring, but that's because I play super aggressively in lane, never hanging back and always trying to find an opening to get some harass in. Keeps me busy.
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EPT
