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Yeah I tend to play supports very aggresively, which is why I think I would enjoy Sona.
I have wanted to get nocturne for awhile but other impulse buys got in the way (TF and Vayne hehe).
Also, Vlad can't outsustain malphite harass? 
I felt like a SV rush would work nicely against him but I have no idea because I see very few vlads these days.
What do people pick against malphite / herbivores in general? I've been using cho but it usually ends up meh. probably because I'm bad at cho / playing top, but maybe I can pretend it's because I'm counterpicking wrong and not because I suck :D
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If you get brute -> BT -> zephyr dont you feel the having no crit?
Thats the main reason im tending towards PD and shiv. but zephyr so cool!
I love the way getting brute feels first. makes it easy to fund a bf sword buy off juicy kills.
IE enough crit by itself?
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Vlad does pretty well vs Malphite. Malphite can maybe go even or slightly better in trades with his shield up, but Vladimir wins by attrition. Chalice helps but will not let Malphite trade indefinitely, and as soon as mana's gone he's toast. This is how Vlad wins every lane that he wins.
I've seen this situation play out the same way in pro streams of Vlad vs Malphite, so it's not just a case of Plat scrubs not knowing how to play Malphite.
To the above: pick Teemo. Seriously, the Captain is strong in most lanes and he's just really freaking fun to play, win or lose. I've started picking Teemo as my main top in ranked and no regrets yet.
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On August 28 2013 02:46 Alzadar wrote:
Vlad does pretty well vs Malphite. Malphite can maybe go even or slightly better in trades with his shield up, but Vladimir wins by attrition. Chalice helps but will not let Malphite trade indefinitely, and as soon as mana's gone he's toast. This is how Vlad wins every lane that he wins.
I've seen this situation play out the same way in pro streams of Vlad vs Malphite, so it's not just a case of Plat scrubs not knowing how to play Malphite.
To the above: pick Teemo. Seriously, the Captain is strong in most lanes and he's just really freaking fun to play, win or lose. I've started picking Teemo as my main top in ranked and no regrets yet.
I have 0 idea how to play Teemo, AD or AP ? I just know that his mushrooms hurt like hell in ARAM as AP Teemo
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I own teemo but never considered him vs Malph.
Seems like malph would do okay against him thanx to ranged spells + burst damage plus malph would always be helpful in ganks against teemo and be better later.
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fucking twitch.tv removed the 480p option, only 360 and 720 now. what the hell.
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On August 28 2013 02:54 Lylat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 02:46 Alzadar wrote:
Vlad does pretty well vs Malphite. Malphite can maybe go even or slightly better in trades with his shield up, but Vladimir wins by attrition. Chalice helps but will not let Malphite trade indefinitely, and as soon as mana's gone he's toast. This is how Vlad wins every lane that he wins.
I've seen this situation play out the same way in pro streams of Vlad vs Malphite, so it's not just a case of Plat scrubs not knowing how to play Malphite.
To the above: pick Teemo. Seriously, the Captain is strong in most lanes and he's just really freaking fun to play, win or lose. I've started picking Teemo as my main top in ranked and no regrets yet. I have 0 idea how to play Teemo, AD or AP ? I just know that his mushrooms hurt like hell in ARAM as AP Teemo
For damage items I like Gunblade (the only core item), Nashors, Morello. After Nashors or sooner you'll want to slip in some defense.
I think Gunblade is really underrated, in the first S3 patch they slipped in auto attacks reducing the active CD and somehow nobody noticed. You can use Gunblade active willy-nilly and people think you're going all-in and overreact, then have it up 30 seconds later. Teemo's a perfect champ for it as he benefits from AD, AP, lifesteal (essential for early laning), spellvamp and the slow. Combined with a high base AS for lowering the CD.
On August 28 2013 02:57 Mauzel wrote:
I own teemo but never considered him vs Malph.
Seems like malph would do okay against him thanx to ranged spells + burst damage plus malph would always be helpful in ganks against teemo and be better later.
Malphite's gank assist is scary but as Teemo you shouldn't be caught unaware by a jungler in your lane. If Malphite is forced to ult before the jungler is in range you should be able to escape just fine with Move Quick.
One thing I think I do differently from most Teemos is level E->W->Q instead of E->Q->W. CD on Dart stays the same and the mana cost goes way up, Move Quick is constant mana cost and goes from passive 10% / active 20% to passive 26% / active 52%.
Learning how to combat mushroom is essential too. Even if you're Teemo, you still need to buy wards, because you need those mushrooms for the lane.
Also I think people really underestimate Teemo's lategame. If even on gold he can duel most people with the right itemization (for defense I've been doing a lot of Tabi+Veil/Visage), you can beat most/all auto-attackers with proper blind/mushroom use and if you have enough beef you'll survive bursters and then melt them.
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On August 28 2013 02:25 Mauzel wrote:Yeah I tend to play supports very aggresively, which is why I think I would enjoy Sona. I have wanted to get nocturne for awhile but other impulse buys got in the way (TF and Vayne hehe). Also, Vlad can't outsustain malphite harass? I felt like a SV rush would work nicely against him but I have no idea because I see very few vlads these days. What do people pick against malphite / herbivores in general? I've been using cho but it usually ends up meh. probably because I'm bad at cho / playing top, but maybe I can pretend it's because I'm counterpicking wrong and not because I suck :D
Either a herbivore who scales harder.
Or a carry top that can destroy lane. Riven is usually a stupidly good choice.
Also, going to repeat this sentiment again, unless you're playing at highest tier of play. Counterpicking is rarely the reason you lose lane matchups. It's almost always a skill difference, lane matchups just make it more noticeable.
On August 28 2013 02:59 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 02:54 Lylat wrote:On August 28 2013 02:46 Alzadar wrote:
Vlad does pretty well vs Malphite. Malphite can maybe go even or slightly better in trades with his shield up, but Vladimir wins by attrition. Chalice helps but will not let Malphite trade indefinitely, and as soon as mana's gone he's toast. This is how Vlad wins every lane that he wins.
I've seen this situation play out the same way in pro streams of Vlad vs Malphite, so it's not just a case of Plat scrubs not knowing how to play Malphite.
To the above: pick Teemo. Seriously, the Captain is strong in most lanes and he's just really freaking fun to play, win or lose. I've started picking Teemo as my main top in ranked and no regrets yet. I have 0 idea how to play Teemo, AD or AP ? I just know that his mushrooms hurt like hell in ARAM as AP Teemo For damage items I like Gunblade (the only core item), Nashors, Morello. After Nashors or sooner you'll want to slip in some defense. I think Gunblade is really underrated, in the first S3 patch they slipped in auto attacks reducing the active CD and somehow nobody noticed. You can use Gunblade active willy-nilly and people think you're going all-in and overreact, then have it up 30 seconds later. Teemo's a perfect champ for it as he benefits from AD, AP, lifesteal (essential for early laning), spellvamp and the slow. Combined with a high base AS for lowering the CD.
Gunblade seems like a good item on teemo, but the lifesteal/spellvamp is sort of wasted stats on him. Don't get me wrong, they are decent, but they're like tertiary stats as far as teemo is concerned. So you're paying for a lot of stats he's not using. I really like Lichbane+tons of AP on him. Nashors + tons of AP is a far superior choice more often though imo. CDR is sorta weird to itemize on teemo, since I don't really like getting Morellos on him, so nashors is a good dps + cdr choice for him.
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On August 28 2013 02:57 LaNague wrote:
fucking twitch.tv removed the 480p option, only 360 and 720 now. what the hell.
It takes effort to encode the source stream/video into 480p and most people probably use either 360 due to caps or bandwith issues or 720+ to see things crystal clear on their machines.
By effort I mean extra storage costs. I don't think it affects the streaming costs. Is it possible your favorite streamer disabled other quality levels?
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On August 28 2013 03:00 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 02:25 Mauzel wrote:Yeah I tend to play supports very aggresively, which is why I think I would enjoy Sona. I have wanted to get nocturne for awhile but other impulse buys got in the way (TF and Vayne hehe). Also, Vlad can't outsustain malphite harass? I felt like a SV rush would work nicely against him but I have no idea because I see very few vlads these days. What do people pick against malphite / herbivores in general? I've been using cho but it usually ends up meh. probably because I'm bad at cho / playing top, but maybe I can pretend it's because I'm counterpicking wrong and not because I suck :D Either a herbivore who scales harder. Or a carry top that can destroy lane. Riven is usually a stupidly good choice. Also, going to repeat this sentiment again, unless you're playing at highest tier of play. Counterpicking is rarely the reason you lose lane matchups. It's almost always a skill difference, lane matchups just make it more noticeable. Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 02:59 Alzadar wrote:On August 28 2013 02:54 Lylat wrote:On August 28 2013 02:46 Alzadar wrote:
Vlad does pretty well vs Malphite. Malphite can maybe go even or slightly better in trades with his shield up, but Vladimir wins by attrition. Chalice helps but will not let Malphite trade indefinitely, and as soon as mana's gone he's toast. This is how Vlad wins every lane that he wins.
I've seen this situation play out the same way in pro streams of Vlad vs Malphite, so it's not just a case of Plat scrubs not knowing how to play Malphite.
To the above: pick Teemo. Seriously, the Captain is strong in most lanes and he's just really freaking fun to play, win or lose. I've started picking Teemo as my main top in ranked and no regrets yet. I have 0 idea how to play Teemo, AD or AP ? I just know that his mushrooms hurt like hell in ARAM as AP Teemo For damage items I like Gunblade (the only core item), Nashors, Morello. After Nashors or sooner you'll want to slip in some defense. I think Gunblade is really underrated, in the first S3 patch they slipped in auto attacks reducing the active CD and somehow nobody noticed. You can use Gunblade active willy-nilly and people think you're going all-in and overreact, then have it up 30 seconds later. Teemo's a perfect champ for it as he benefits from AD, AP, lifesteal (essential for early laning), spellvamp and the slow. Combined with a high base AS for lowering the CD. Gunblade seems like a good item on teemo, but the lifesteal/spellvamp is sort of wasted stats on him. Don't get me wrong, they are decent, but they're like tertiary stats as far as teemo is concerned. So you're paying for a lot of stats he's not using. I really like Lichbane+tons of AP on him. Nashors + tons of AP is a far superior choice more often though imo. CDR is sorta weird to itemize on teemo, since I don't really like getting Morellos on him, so nashors is a good dps + cdr choice for him.
Yeah Nashor's is great, always #2 damage item. But the sustain is essential IMO vs anyone with ranged harass. Your harass might be stronger than theirs but you need to be able to heal up or you'll lose to attrition. Once you have Vamp Scepter the road to Cutlass and then Gunblade is just too easy. The trick is getting a good slow (note that Gunblade slow is untouched this patch, still 700 range, so it allows you to reach people outside of your auto range), BotRK has no AP and no follow-up, Mallet has no damage (but good if you're just steamrolling). Gunblade is actually cost-efficient even if you exclude the lfiesteal, spellvamp and active.
I've never really experimented with Lichbane.
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Rylai and spellvamp items always feel dumb on Teemo to me, even AP Teemo, since shrooms only get a 3rd of the damage benefiting from spellvmap (since they're AoE) and already slow your target, E is a passive on-hit so it doesn't apply either, leaving you with Q which isn't really worth it.
People definitely underestimate Teemo though. He wrecks squishies so a bunch of the AP carries who lack hard cc to pin him down while they kill him go down to whoever gets the jump on the other, and squishy auto-attackers get wrecked so hard by his blind. Being a "soft" cc (akin to slows and silences) it has a longer duration than stuns and stuff like that, and serves the same purpose as far as negating damage is concerned.
2.5 seconds is such a friggin' long time late game for squishies when champs have high dps. I've had several games thrown by fed marksmen thinking they can take on an AP Teemo when they encounter him, only for him to 1v1 them while losing almost no HP thanks to his Q.
I remember a VoD of Monte's jungle Akali where he just rushed Gunblade. Holycrapwtf with her autos, ult charges, Q procs and stuff she recharges it so fast, you just 1v1 somebody in a lane, using Gunblade right at the start, and by the time you walk from that lane to the next one Gunblade is almost up because of how much you reduced its cd during the fight. Having the nuke/slow available for every skirmish no matter how close they are makes it a terrifying 1v1 item during the midgame, before people start grouping up.
(Plus Smite on Akali is dumb if a minion walks by during a fight.)
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On August 28 2013 03:11 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 02:57 LaNague wrote:
fucking twitch.tv removed the 480p option, only 360 and 720 now. what the hell. It takes effort to encode the source stream/video into 480p and most people probably use either 360 due to caps or bandwith issues or 720+ to see things crystal clear on their machines.
But a lot of people cap at 480p. Like me.
Also, 480p is what OGN used as free stream, so i thought its a common and acceptable resolution.
360p, or "medium" is much worse. and 720p is now true 720 and not fake as it was before (i could watch it sometimes before the change), so it using using quite the bandwidth.
gogo youtube streaming.
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On August 28 2013 03:15 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 03:00 wei2coolman wrote:On August 28 2013 02:25 Mauzel wrote:Yeah I tend to play supports very aggresively, which is why I think I would enjoy Sona. I have wanted to get nocturne for awhile but other impulse buys got in the way (TF and Vayne hehe). Also, Vlad can't outsustain malphite harass? I felt like a SV rush would work nicely against him but I have no idea because I see very few vlads these days. What do people pick against malphite / herbivores in general? I've been using cho but it usually ends up meh. probably because I'm bad at cho / playing top, but maybe I can pretend it's because I'm counterpicking wrong and not because I suck :D Either a herbivore who scales harder. Or a carry top that can destroy lane. Riven is usually a stupidly good choice. Also, going to repeat this sentiment again, unless you're playing at highest tier of play. Counterpicking is rarely the reason you lose lane matchups. It's almost always a skill difference, lane matchups just make it more noticeable. On August 28 2013 02:59 Alzadar wrote:On August 28 2013 02:54 Lylat wrote:On August 28 2013 02:46 Alzadar wrote:
Vlad does pretty well vs Malphite. Malphite can maybe go even or slightly better in trades with his shield up, but Vladimir wins by attrition. Chalice helps but will not let Malphite trade indefinitely, and as soon as mana's gone he's toast. This is how Vlad wins every lane that he wins.
I've seen this situation play out the same way in pro streams of Vlad vs Malphite, so it's not just a case of Plat scrubs not knowing how to play Malphite.
To the above: pick Teemo. Seriously, the Captain is strong in most lanes and he's just really freaking fun to play, win or lose. I've started picking Teemo as my main top in ranked and no regrets yet. I have 0 idea how to play Teemo, AD or AP ? I just know that his mushrooms hurt like hell in ARAM as AP Teemo For damage items I like Gunblade (the only core item), Nashors, Morello. After Nashors or sooner you'll want to slip in some defense. I think Gunblade is really underrated, in the first S3 patch they slipped in auto attacks reducing the active CD and somehow nobody noticed. You can use Gunblade active willy-nilly and people think you're going all-in and overreact, then have it up 30 seconds later. Teemo's a perfect champ for it as he benefits from AD, AP, lifesteal (essential for early laning), spellvamp and the slow. Combined with a high base AS for lowering the CD. Gunblade seems like a good item on teemo, but the lifesteal/spellvamp is sort of wasted stats on him. Don't get me wrong, they are decent, but they're like tertiary stats as far as teemo is concerned. So you're paying for a lot of stats he's not using. I really like Lichbane+tons of AP on him. Nashors + tons of AP is a far superior choice more often though imo. CDR is sorta weird to itemize on teemo, since I don't really like getting Morellos on him, so nashors is a good dps + cdr choice for him. Yeah Nashor's is great, always #2 damage item. But the sustain is essential IMO vs anyone with ranged harass. Your harass might be stronger than theirs but you need to be able to heal up or you'll lose to attrition. Once you have Vamp Scepter the road to Cutlass and then Gunblade is just too easy. The trick is getting a good slow (note that Gunblade slow is untouched this patch, still 700 range, so it allows you to reach people outside of your auto range), BotRK has no AP and no follow-up, Mallet has no damage (but good if you're just steamrolling). I've never really experimented with Lichbane.
I think you're overstating lifesteal, you can get away with no lifesteal by just buying a few pots to supplement it. There are plenty of champions in this game that get away with no lifesteal or sustain, teemo isn't forced into getting sustain. Teemo wins wars of attrition because he's just able to straight up out trade most champions, and the fact that he gets to control when trades happen. That's simply how ranged vs melee works. The only issue is teemo can lose all ins, specially at level 6 timings, but his strength is his ability to disengage off of all-ins. Also, his MS steroid is so good that he really doesn't need the slow to catch up to any one. Gunblade is just very bleh item on teemo overall.
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Idk, the way i see teemo would be build nashors and liandry's, then build whatever cause your shrooms hurt like hell already
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On August 28 2013 03:18 Alaric wrote:
Rylai and spellvamp items always feel dumb on Teemo to me, even AP Teemo, since shrooms only get a 3rd of the damage benefiting from spellvmap (since they're AoE) and already slow your target, E is a passive on-hit so it doesn't apply either, leaving you with Q which isn't really worth it.
People definitely underestimate Teemo though. He wrecks squishies so a bunch of the AP carries who lack hard cc to pin him down while they kill him go down to whoever gets the jump on the other, and squishy auto-attackers get wrecked so hard by his blind. Being a "soft" cc (akin to slows and silences) it has a longer duration than stuns and stuff like that, and serves the same purpose as far as negating damage is concerned.
2.5 seconds is such a friggin' long time late game for squishies when champs have high dps. I've had several games thrown by fed marksmen thinking they can take on an AP Teemo when they encounter him, only for him to 1v1 them while losing almost no HP thanks to his Q.
I remember a VoD of Monte's jungle Akali where he just rushed Gunblade. Holycrapwtf with her autos, ult charges, Q procs and stuff she recharges it so fast, you just 1v1 somebody in a lane, using Gunblade right at the start, and by the time you walk from that lane to the next one Gunblade is almost up because of how much you reduced its cd during the fight. Having the nuke/slow available for every skirmish no matter how close they are makes it a terrifying 1v1 item during the midgame, before people start grouping up.
(Plus Smite on Akali is dumb if a minion walks by during a fight.)
Agreed on Rylai, bad bad bad.
So long as shrooms hit enough targets, the healing is respectable. A minion wave at level 11 will probably heal you around ~150HP.
Is Marksman actually a thing now? Where did this come from?
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Marksman is faster to type.
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On August 28 2013 03:24 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 03:18 Alaric wrote:
Rylai and spellvamp items always feel dumb on Teemo to me, even AP Teemo, since shrooms only get a 3rd of the damage benefiting from spellvmap (since they're AoE) and already slow your target, E is a passive on-hit so it doesn't apply either, leaving you with Q which isn't really worth it.
People definitely underestimate Teemo though. He wrecks squishies so a bunch of the AP carries who lack hard cc to pin him down while they kill him go down to whoever gets the jump on the other, and squishy auto-attackers get wrecked so hard by his blind. Being a "soft" cc (akin to slows and silences) it has a longer duration than stuns and stuff like that, and serves the same purpose as far as negating damage is concerned.
2.5 seconds is such a friggin' long time late game for squishies when champs have high dps. I've had several games thrown by fed marksmen thinking they can take on an AP Teemo when they encounter him, only for him to 1v1 them while losing almost no HP thanks to his Q.
I remember a VoD of Monte's jungle Akali where he just rushed Gunblade. Holycrapwtf with her autos, ult charges, Q procs and stuff she recharges it so fast, you just 1v1 somebody in a lane, using Gunblade right at the start, and by the time you walk from that lane to the next one Gunblade is almost up because of how much you reduced its cd during the fight. Having the nuke/slow available for every skirmish no matter how close they are makes it a terrifying 1v1 item during the midgame, before people start grouping up.
(Plus Smite on Akali is dumb if a minion walks by during a fight.) Agreed on Rylai, bad bad bad. So long as shrooms hit enough targets, the healing is respectable. A minion wave at level 11 will probably heal you around ~150HP. Is Marksman actually a thing now? Where did this come from?
I seriously hope you don't think shrooms is a reliable way of healing up in middle of teamfight... Strong sustain like gunblade benefits champions like akali, or old kat, due to their ability to output insane amounts of singletarget dps. This is not quite the case for teemo.
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People used marksmen ironically, but since everyone used it ironically, everyone used it. And now its the normal thing to say.
basically, people trolled themselves.
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oh no i thought we were still using marksmen ironically!
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On August 28 2013 03:27 Alaric wrote:
Marksman is faster to type.
Marksman = 8
ADC = 3
AD Carry = 8
Carry = 5
Ranged AD = 9
???
On August 28 2013 03:27 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 03:24 Alzadar wrote:On August 28 2013 03:18 Alaric wrote:
Rylai and spellvamp items always feel dumb on Teemo to me, even AP Teemo, since shrooms only get a 3rd of the damage benefiting from spellvmap (since they're AoE) and already slow your target, E is a passive on-hit so it doesn't apply either, leaving you with Q which isn't really worth it.
People definitely underestimate Teemo though. He wrecks squishies so a bunch of the AP carries who lack hard cc to pin him down while they kill him go down to whoever gets the jump on the other, and squishy auto-attackers get wrecked so hard by his blind. Being a "soft" cc (akin to slows and silences) it has a longer duration than stuns and stuff like that, and serves the same purpose as far as negating damage is concerned.
2.5 seconds is such a friggin' long time late game for squishies when champs have high dps. I've had several games thrown by fed marksmen thinking they can take on an AP Teemo when they encounter him, only for him to 1v1 them while losing almost no HP thanks to his Q.
I remember a VoD of Monte's jungle Akali where he just rushed Gunblade. Holycrapwtf with her autos, ult charges, Q procs and stuff she recharges it so fast, you just 1v1 somebody in a lane, using Gunblade right at the start, and by the time you walk from that lane to the next one Gunblade is almost up because of how much you reduced its cd during the fight. Having the nuke/slow available for every skirmish no matter how close they are makes it a terrifying 1v1 item during the midgame, before people start grouping up.
(Plus Smite on Akali is dumb if a minion walks by during a fight.) Agreed on Rylai, bad bad bad. So long as shrooms hit enough targets, the healing is respectable. A minion wave at level 11 will probably heal you around ~150HP. Is Marksman actually a thing now? Where did this come from? I seriously hope you don't think shrooms is a reliable way of healing up in middle of teamfight... Strong sustain like gunblade benefits champions like akali, or old kat, due to their ability to output insane amounts of singletarget dps. This is not quite the case for teemo.
No of course not. Spellvamp certainly falls off by teamfights, although Gunblade remains strong for the whole game (nobody expects the 700 range slow, ever). You kind of want to lean away from fair teamfights as Teemo though. You can manage them fine, but you really shine on the splitpush and Baron control (I dare you to clear wards in the banana bush...).
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EPT
