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On August 27 2013 05:56 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 04:38 Gahlo wrote:
Edward in the situation slipped my mind, as he's the only nonNA person that is in the LCS(sans Nyjacky, who moved a loooong time ago) Bloodwater? Unless Bulgaria is now considered NA, I'm not up to date with what countries the US has been invading lately. Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 05:42 wei2coolman wrote:On August 27 2013 03:20 TheYango wrote:On August 27 2013 03:13 Amui wrote:
For whatever reason I can't seem to copy paste from the visa site I googled. But it says that such visas can take several months with premium processing available(no idea what that means). You can also meet the requirements without having qualified for worlds.
The thing is, we didn't even know the Worlds date until a month and a half ago, so even if they applied then, scheduling would be pretty tight. And neither of these teams have qualified for Worlds anyway--the Chinese Worlds qualifier hasn't even been played yet. It's just that OMG's standing right now is more or less where C9 is for NA, i.e. something extraordinarily tragic (this, for example) has to happen for them to not be one of the two teams going to Worlds. It was so apparently obvious that Riot was going to do a S3 World Championship, dunno why they released all the info so fucking late. Every other sport has this shit planned years in advanced. Having a 6 month prep-period for all the teams would have been nice. Actually most sports only plan their big championships a year ahead of time. After the championships are done they set about planning the next year's one. Least that's how it is in American football, and being a US citizen, football is all I care about.
I'd take that with an extremely large grain of salt considering every other major sport in NA plays a best of series in the 2 home stadiums of the final 2 teams. So no your example is in fact extremely poor. Most teams will sell tenative tickets to the next round of the playoffs as it goes. The problem is Riot let the "regular season" go on too long and its now ridden so close to the playoffs that its going to be very close for the time table on getting visas for everyone. They should try and start next season earlier and end it earlier so theres more time for teams that are traveling can get visas etc with some comfort and certainty.
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On August 27 2013 06:10 Kyhron wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 05:56 Zdrastochye wrote:On August 27 2013 04:38 Gahlo wrote:
Edward in the situation slipped my mind, as he's the only nonNA person that is in the LCS(sans Nyjacky, who moved a loooong time ago) Bloodwater? Unless Bulgaria is now considered NA, I'm not up to date with what countries the US has been invading lately. On August 27 2013 05:42 wei2coolman wrote:On August 27 2013 03:20 TheYango wrote:On August 27 2013 03:13 Amui wrote:
For whatever reason I can't seem to copy paste from the visa site I googled. But it says that such visas can take several months with premium processing available(no idea what that means). You can also meet the requirements without having qualified for worlds.
The thing is, we didn't even know the Worlds date until a month and a half ago, so even if they applied then, scheduling would be pretty tight. And neither of these teams have qualified for Worlds anyway--the Chinese Worlds qualifier hasn't even been played yet. It's just that OMG's standing right now is more or less where C9 is for NA, i.e. something extraordinarily tragic (this, for example) has to happen for them to not be one of the two teams going to Worlds. It was so apparently obvious that Riot was going to do a S3 World Championship, dunno why they released all the info so fucking late. Every other sport has this shit planned years in advanced. Having a 6 month prep-period for all the teams would have been nice. Actually most sports only plan their big championships a year ahead of time. After the championships are done they set about planning the next year's one. Least that's how it is in American football, and being a US citizen, football is all I care about. I'd take that with an extremely large grain of salt considering every other major sport in NA plays a best of series in the 2 home stadiums of the final 2 teams. So no your example is in fact extremely poor. Most teams will sell tenative tickets to the next round of the playoffs as it goes. The problem is Riot let the "regular season" go on too long and its now ridden so close to the playoffs that its going to be very close for the time table on getting visas for everyone. They should try and start next season earlier and end it earlier so theres more time for teams that are traveling can get visas etc with some comfort and certainty.
Why would my comparison be poor when you admit that other sports play in home stadiums? There are no "home stadiums" for League at the moment, they set up the venue at a neutral location, a la the Superbowl. I don't disagree that they have the regular season carry on for too long with not enough of a break in between the end of the summer split into Worlds, but I think my comparison to the NFL is at least closer than comparisons to the MLB, NBA, or NHL, all of which play the finals in bo7 in home stadiums, which I state again there are none of in League.
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Note to self: don't pick Cassiopeia when testing if EUW is still dead or not.
The good news is, there're no more freezes apparently.
The bad news is, there're still lags and in this situation being camped by a Zac then having to deal with a Riven when you're playing a skillshots champ without mobility is... well, I'm not trying it again. ._.
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The real problem with this sports comparison is pretty obvious folks. Most sports leagues don't invite teams/players from other countries to participate solely in their end of season event. Usually outside nationals get all their visa stuff handled by a team before they can play in the league to begin with so visa issues are irrelephant come playoffs. The only remotely comparable traditional sport would be the UEFA & the Champ league, but they plan significantly in advance and there are important breaks between rounds/matches. Plus the teams have control of their venues (which Riot does not).
Riot blew it here, although they probably did so due to circumstances that established sports don't have to worry about. I think Yango's point that the Chinese teams are an patch set behind the rest of the world is much less forgivable. It's just a huge "Fuck you".
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On August 27 2013 05:56 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 04:38 Gahlo wrote:
Edward in the situation slipped my mind, as he's the only nonNA person that is in the LCS(sans Nyjacky, who moved a loooong time ago) Bloodwater? Unless Bulgaria is now considered NA, I'm not up to date with what countries the US has been invading lately.
Well we have (had? haven't checked in a while) US of Aian military facilities over here, so technically we count as a protectorate.
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So, both my friends and I are currently trying to play and the client instantly crashes before anything can happen for me and someone else.
The third of us got into game but has no models.
What is this nonsense?
EDIT: Eventually got into the game. Was a 2v5 for about 12 minutes. Lovely.
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Saw the new skin sale, immediately tried to buy rocket girl tristana, disappointed that today is in fact NOT Tuesday
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Even if the chinese teams got a 3 business day turnaround(the premium processing guarantees 15 days..which is quite obviously not in time), you'd be looking at a 11/12th flight(which is going to be pretty freaking expensive, I checked out of curiosity for a short notice flight, and econ class won't have enough seats for 12 people, and business class you're looking at upwards of 5k per seat), and then they'll get to US on the 13th, or even the 14th if you don't have the best flight plan. One day to adjust for jetlag AND the patch. Maybe 2 if Riot plays with the schedule to not have them play on that day.
Basically even if Riot pulls some strings and gets people to stamp the visa packages for each team that qualifies the day of qualification, you're going to at best see some very tired players play on a patch they have a couple days experience with, and at worse you'll see a 10 team Worlds.
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On August 27 2013 06:35 Haiq343 wrote:
Riot blew it here, although they probably did so due to circumstances that established sports don't have to worry about. I think Yango's point that the Chinese teams are an patch set behind the rest of the world is much less forgivable. It's just a huge "Fuck you".
I don't think that patching the Chinese client is within Riot's control. As far as I am aware Tencent controls everthing from different pricings/monetazations to portrait artwork within the PVP client. That being said I imagine they handle patches as well. I haven't ever even heard of a Riot China office.
http://www.riotgames.com/articles/20110204/147/tencent-acquires-majority-stake-riot-games
http://www.riotgames.com/articles/20081121/237/riot-games-and-tencent-bring-league-legends-china
Edit: I feel Tencent is the one who dropped the ball on patches, unless I'm missing something about Riot intentionally slowing the process in China.
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What is in Riot's control is not releasing a balance patch for the event so late. I think it's actually stupid that this latest patch was released at all, even if China got the patch at the same time(how many pro teams are practicing with nerfed Zac for example), but it's made all that much worse when you consider that they obviously know what China's timetable for releases is, and did it anyways. Releasing the latest patch was basically a huge fuck you to competition, because what we will see will not be teams that have thorough practice and fine understanding of the patch they are playing on, doubly so for the 2 Chinese qualifiers.
IMO Riot really needed to put out a news post linked inside the client right now detailing how they have their season ending championships on the horizon and will not be patching until the competition is finished; this would also serve as a litmus test for how well the League playerbase could handle even longer patch cycles.
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At this point it seems pretty obvious there is almost zero communication between the different departments in Riot. Either that or the people working on the eSports side of things are grossly incompetent and I refuse to believe that since LCS has predominately been a success. Feels like a bunch of isolated groups made their own decisions which lead to the current situation we are in where it's a giant cluster fuck of stupidity.
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Obviously I have no inside info and am blissfully ignorant of all actual facts, but it seems to me that if Riot made an issue of it things could probably get done (even if that's having the LPL play on a different patch or w/e). It's a mess, and that means someone has dropped the ball. That may be because they're newish to international logistics etc, but it's disappointing that World's could have been significantly better than the "pretty badass and awesome" it likely will be.
There's an organizational learning curve here to be sure, TI3 was super in part because TInot3 had some hiccups and Valve learned from them.
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On August 27 2013 07:25 Numy wrote:
At this point it seems pretty obvious there is almost zero communication between the different departments in Riot. Either that or the people working on the eSports side of things are grossly incompetent and I refuse to believe that since LCS has predominately been a success. Feels like a bunch of isolated groups made their own decisions which lead to the current situation we are in where it's a giant cluster fuck of stupidity.
After the fiasco from Riot Korea handing out unavailable skins (the Christmas Sona one) for the server issues they had locally, a Riot from NA told the angry guys in GD that pretty much each region does its stuff in its corner and doesn't communicate about it with the others, hence Riot Korea handling it without looking at precedents in such issues.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 27 2013 07:00 Amui wrote:
Even if the chinese teams got a 3 business day turnaround(the premium processing guarantees 15 days..which is quite obviously not in time), you'd be looking at a 11/12th flight(which is going to be pretty freaking expensive, I checked out of curiosity for a short notice flight, and econ class won't have enough seats for 12 people, and business class you're looking at upwards of 5k per seat), and then they'll get to US on the 13th, or even the 14th if you don't have the best flight plan. One day to adjust for jetlag AND the patch. Maybe 2 if Riot plays with the schedule to not have them play on that day.
Basically even if Riot pulls some strings and gets people to stamp the visa packages for each team that qualifies the day of qualification, you're going to at best see some very tired players play on a patch they have a couple days experience with, and at worse you'll see a 10 team Worlds.
Well in fairness, PE playing as they are now probably won't make it to Worlds, and OMG playing as they are now will probably get the bye to the Ro8 and therefore won't need to play groupstage.
On August 27 2013 07:19 red_ wrote:What is in Riot's control is not releasing a balance patch for the event so late. I think it's actually stupid that this latest patch was released at all, even if China got the patch at the same time(how many pro teams are practicing with nerfed Zac for example), but it's made all that much worse when you consider that they obviously know what China's timetable for releases is, and did it anyways. Releasing the latest patch was basically a huge fuck you to competition, because what we will see will not be teams that have thorough practice and fine understanding of the patch they are playing on, doubly so for the 2 Chinese qualifiers. IMO Riot really needed to put out a news post linked inside the client right now detailing how they have their season ending championships on the horizon and will not be patching until the competition is finished; this would also serve as a litmus test for how well the League playerbase could handle even longer patch cycles.
Exactly this.
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On August 27 2013 07:41 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 07:00 Amui wrote:
Even if the chinese teams got a 3 business day turnaround(the premium processing guarantees 15 days..which is quite obviously not in time), you'd be looking at a 11/12th flight(which is going to be pretty freaking expensive, I checked out of curiosity for a short notice flight, and econ class won't have enough seats for 12 people, and business class you're looking at upwards of 5k per seat), and then they'll get to US on the 13th, or even the 14th if you don't have the best flight plan. One day to adjust for jetlag AND the patch. Maybe 2 if Riot plays with the schedule to not have them play on that day.
Basically even if Riot pulls some strings and gets people to stamp the visa packages for each team that qualifies the day of qualification, you're going to at best see some very tired players play on a patch they have a couple days experience with, and at worse you'll see a 10 team Worlds. Well in fairness, PE playing as they are now probably won't make it to Worlds, and OMG playing as they are now will probably get the bye to the Ro8 and therefore won't need to play groupstage.
Jojopls
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Visa issues for the Chinese teams aren't really Riot's fault. Even if Riot knew and told everyone exactly when S3 championships are going to be, there isn't really any way for foreign teams to prepare for travel until their respective leagues/playoffs are essentially finished. It's ridiculous to expect teams to start prepping visas and shit before they even know if they're going. I mean, 6 months ago, almost everyone would've said WE and iG would be the Chinese representatives, and OMG, PE, Royal had no chance.
Comparisons to physical sports is unfounded since a. sports are not generally international and don't require visas and/or b. the little sporting events that are international are on a scale vastly greater than S3 championships (ie. World Cup, Olympics, etc...) so governments handle those on a different basis. TI3 didn't have this problem because it was (almost) entirely invitation based so Valve can afford to let qualified teams know far in advance, whereas S3 championships the teams qualify via leagues.
I will echo the sentiment that Riot patching the game so close to World is just stupid, especially with significant changes like the one done to Phage/Triforce. I'm just hoping that Riot realises the stupidity of what they did and announce that World will be played on 3.9, not 3.10a. I mean, there's plenty of precendent where LoL tourneys played on prior patches despite the live client continuing to patch at a regular rate.
Edit: Formatting and stuff
I also want to add that having the World Championships in October is probably also very much influenced by the fact that Season 2 championships were also held in October and Riot probably wants to make things more regular. there's also the fact that almost every single sport that actually has championship finals usually have them very very close to the end of their regular season/playoffs. It makes no sense for qualifiers to end then for teams to wait a month or so before playing championships. Not only is it possible for other teams to surpass the qualified teams during that period of time, you can bet that a lot of hype will be lost in the meantime. You have to keep in mind that these events are, above all, giant advertisements for Riot and you need maximum hype for this to be justified.
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On August 27 2013 07:42 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 07:41 TheYango wrote:On August 27 2013 07:00 Amui wrote:
Even if the chinese teams got a 3 business day turnaround(the premium processing guarantees 15 days..which is quite obviously not in time), you'd be looking at a 11/12th flight(which is going to be pretty freaking expensive, I checked out of curiosity for a short notice flight, and econ class won't have enough seats for 12 people, and business class you're looking at upwards of 5k per seat), and then they'll get to US on the 13th, or even the 14th if you don't have the best flight plan. One day to adjust for jetlag AND the patch. Maybe 2 if Riot plays with the schedule to not have them play on that day.
Basically even if Riot pulls some strings and gets people to stamp the visa packages for each team that qualifies the day of qualification, you're going to at best see some very tired players play on a patch they have a couple days experience with, and at worse you'll see a 10 team Worlds. Well in fairness, PE playing as they are now probably won't make it to Worlds, and OMG playing as they are now will probably get the bye to the Ro8 and therefore won't need to play groupstage. Jojopls
OMG, OMG's gogoing is not going to go!
Wordplay aside I really like OMG. =\
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I was trying to find out if anyone went brutalizer first on lucian.
I wonder if Lucian Brute the boxer has any confused fans.
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On August 27 2013 08:44 ComaDose wrote:
I was trying to find out if anyone went brutalizer first on lucian.
I wonder if Lucian Brute the boxer has any confused fans.
yup, 15-5, 16-5 my last two games.
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So, after actually seeing Lucian in play a few times, he seems stupid overpowered to me.
His ult and his Q both do too much damage and it's ridiculous for him to have a dash that's as good as his dash is with all the offensive capability he has.
Is this everybody elses conclusion?
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EPT
