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On July 16 2013 05:11 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 03:57 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I think people are too into the whole "IT'S NEVER THE JUNGLER'S FAULT" thing.
Sure you might not be actively losing the game for your team, but if you're not actively doing something to win the game, there's really no difference.
So if all your laners die while you spent your time farming jungle/being in the wrong places, yeah, it's your fault even if you're 0-0-2 or some dumb score like that.
If the other jungler is ganking and putting massive pressure on all your lanes, you're not accomplishing anything but getting those 4 wraiths or those 3 wolves. you can't just tell your laners to "play safe and ward" because most of the time even if that happens, enemy jungler can still apply pressure while you're dicking around doing nothing in the jungle.
tl;dr, it's actually the jungler's fault even if you might not like hearing it. its always the junglers fault but its just easier to imagine exactly when the jungler might have arrived and saved your lane than a: being a jungler and predicting exactly when the right time to come to every lane is b: being a non terribad player and realizing you are losing lane because of your own mistakes and your jungler wouldn't be needed at all if you weren't terribad the expansion to this notion is that its always your fault if you lose the game. this post is just offering people more excuses to blame other people on their own terribleness
Your B is pretty false. In soloQ, lots of players play over-agressively and take pretty crazy risk, and the optimal answer to that is NOT playing crazy as well, it's to ask for your jungler to come take the free kill.
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On July 16 2013 04:31 Scip wrote:
I love AD carries, everyone who mained AD carry for long enough suffers from the AD carry syndrome
they gravitate towards farm faster than anyone can make calls
I never mained AD but PvE way too much 
Very annoying to play support where you need ages to kill a fucking creep...
I refunded Zed because I used to spend all my games farming and missing the good fights :/
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+ Show Spoiler +
went 16-3 to go from Silver 4 to Gold
Why are there so many TLers in Taric's Enforcers, wtf? xD
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Did you add them to your buddy list? I know that the game tends to put you in leagues with your friends.
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ladder system will try to put friends in the same league, and apparently there are a lot of gold tlers
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On July 16 2013 05:13 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 05:11 Slayer91 wrote:On July 16 2013 03:57 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I think people are too into the whole "IT'S NEVER THE JUNGLER'S FAULT" thing.
Sure you might not be actively losing the game for your team, but if you're not actively doing something to win the game, there's really no difference.
So if all your laners die while you spent your time farming jungle/being in the wrong places, yeah, it's your fault even if you're 0-0-2 or some dumb score like that.
If the other jungler is ganking and putting massive pressure on all your lanes, you're not accomplishing anything but getting those 4 wraiths or those 3 wolves. you can't just tell your laners to "play safe and ward" because most of the time even if that happens, enemy jungler can still apply pressure while you're dicking around doing nothing in the jungle.
tl;dr, it's actually the jungler's fault even if you might not like hearing it. its always the junglers fault but its just easier to imagine exactly when the jungler might have arrived and saved your lane than a: being a jungler and predicting exactly when the right time to come to every lane is b: being a non terribad player and realizing you are losing lane because of your own mistakes and your jungler wouldn't be needed at all if you weren't terribad the expansion to this notion is that its always your fault if you lose the game. this post is just offering people more excuses to blame other people on their own terribleness Your B is pretty false. In soloQ, lots of players play over-agressively and take pretty crazy risk, and the optimal answer to that is NOT playing crazy as well, it's to ask for your jungler to come take the free kill.
its only a free kill if you imagine your jungler can teleport to the lane instantly. Any situation where someone is playing in your opinion "overagressive" is either a situation where you play back becuse you think he's baiting for a jungle gank OR he's stronger than you. In either case if their jungler is around as well you're fucked. Meanwhile playing passively and waiting for timings and opportunities (like your jungler coming when he decides its the right time, 90%+ of the time the jungler knows better about his role than you do - shocking) will win lane a lot more than going full retard and hoping for the best
unless im jungling, in which case there's a strong chance im not paying attention at all and there is a free kill
although A HUGE % of the time I hear the words "free kill" and actually come i get counterganked and die
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
yeah, the problem with laners calling "free kill" is, your average soloQ laners just think on 1 level, while the enemy jungler thinks deeper and predicts that the laner will call for free kill and therefore is there for the countergank.
You have to get to the 3rd level of thinking and just farm and not care
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The only thing I'll say about jungle because I do believe it to be highly volitlile/situational, is it frustrates me to see junglers who don't take into account match-up/lane cc when they plan their first route.
I've had junglers who I've back pinged come top when I'm a lvl2 vlad it's like unless you can do 95% of the damage and bring the cc nothing is going to happen here.
then I've had a guy with no escape like yorick vs me as zac and I freeze on my end and don't see help until after the lane is won/lost.
these are examples and I'm not saying it happens all the time but when it does happen it's the kinda thing that makes me annoyed with them.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
if you freeze as zac against yorick and somesuch your jungler is not supposed to gank untill he sees the enemy jungler somewhere or can guarantee that he is higher level than the enemy jungler
ideally you'd have some nice lvl1 taktiks that would get you a deep ward or 2 into their jungle but in soloQ that doesn't usually happen, so jungler not ganking there is most of the time the right call
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if you want more attentive junglers then you should earn them by getting higher elo
if your junglers are consistently terrible that reflects your own level of skill
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On July 16 2013 05:28 Slayer91 wrote:
if you want more attentive junglers then you should earn them by getting higher elo
if your junglers are consistently terrible that reflects your own level of skill
well there is that
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Baa?21247 Posts
My original point was merely that junglers don't get enough blame. In a game, on average, it's your fault 20% of the time. That's just how it is. Except the overblaming of junglers has led to a overcompensation of people circlejerking about how it's never jungler's fault, when really, junglers are at fault 20% of the time.
The same is true with supports to a lesser extent.
You'd never think so based on the shit people post though, since apparently junglers are infallible.
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people who post are junglers who are mad at always gettnig blamed
junglers are by far the most blamed player in every team unless someone else is actively feeding horrendously or said jungler has gotten tons of kills
junglers are at fault a lot more than 20% of the time, your math doesnt make any sense. the average jungler is always making a huge amount of mistakes and so is everyone else.
basically everyone is at fault 99% of the time, trying to pin the blame on 1 specific player for losing a game when he could be carried by any other player preforming well is silly.
tryign to figure out who contributed most to "losing the game" is just another excuse people use so they dont have to do the grueling work of seeing all the mistakes they made
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Baa?21247 Posts
On July 16 2013 05:36 Slayer91 wrote:
people who post are junglers who are mad at always gettnig blamed
junglers are by far the most blamed player in every team unless someone else is actively feeding horrendously or said jungler has gotten tons of kills
junglers are at fault a lot more than 20% of the time, your math doesnt make any sense. the average jungler is always making a huge amount of mistakes and so is everyone else.
basically everyone is at fault 99% of the time, trying to pin the blame on 1 specific player for losing a game when he could be carried by any other player preforming well is silly.
You misunderstand. I meant that in an average game, one person is equally likely to be playing poorly/doing poor plays as anyone else. Maybe 20% was a bad way of putting it.
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I wish lol had a language menu like in MvC3 where you can set the voice acting by character, I love the Korean Elise W for some reason.
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On July 16 2013 05:40 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 05:36 Slayer91 wrote:
people who post are junglers who are mad at always gettnig blamed
junglers are by far the most blamed player in every team unless someone else is actively feeding horrendously or said jungler has gotten tons of kills
junglers are at fault a lot more than 20% of the time, your math doesnt make any sense. the average jungler is always making a huge amount of mistakes and so is everyone else.
basically everyone is at fault 99% of the time, trying to pin the blame on 1 specific player for losing a game when he could be carried by any other player preforming well is silly. You misunderstand. I meant that in an average game, one person is equally likely to be playing poorly/doing poor plays as anyone else. Maybe 20% was a bad way of putting it.
I think 20% was a good number as it re-inforces the idea that this is a team game and you are only 20% of the problem/solution and you need to work together to get a positive % if you want to win the game.
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no its not thinking you are 20% of the problem and solution will lead to being frustrated at lack of impact when the reality is you can win pretty much every game if you play well enough. (because of match making, one guy snowballing his lane, or even 2 guys snowballing their lanes doesnt mean match making is broken its just random chance and doesnt mean you auto lose unless you are only as good as the other guys snowballing their lanes)
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United States47024 Posts
On July 16 2013 06:14 Zooper31 wrote:
I think 20% was a good number as it re-inforces the idea that this is a team game and you are only 20% of the problem/solution and you need to work together to get a positive % if you want to win the game.
See, that's not right either. A player who is doing very well fundamentally has a higher impact on the game, either directly (e.g. because his actions/outcome in a teamfight direct whether the teamfight is won or lost more than the other players) or indirectly (e.g. because players are more likely to listen to someone who's doing well).
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On July 16 2013 06:16 Slayer91 wrote:
no its not thinking you are 20% of the problem and solution will lead to being frustrated at lack of impact when the reality is you can win pretty much every game if you play well enough. (because of match making, one guy snowballing his lane, or even 2 guys snowballing their lanes doesnt mean match making is broken its just random chance and doesnt mean you auto lose unless you are only as good as the other guys snowballing their lanes)
So everyone should say F*** teamwork and just do everything in their power to snowball their character and carry the game by themselves?
It's a happy medium that LoL requires and even 1-2 person playing godlike can only carry a behind team so much if the other 3-4 members are playing like dead fish.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dXAGTDs.png)
