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On July 15 2013 06:05 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 05:59 Ketara wrote:
At the end of the day, how do you make a support item that's better for supports than just buying a Kindlegem? And if you have a Kindlegem, why are you not turning it into a Locket? You really think it's too hard to come up with an 850 gold active support item where the active is more valuable than Kindlegem?
I don't think they're going to make an 850 gold item that just has an active on it and not much else.
It would probably work and be pretty cool, but I just don't think that's where they want to go. They want you to have a single item with parts that feels awesome on its own, not 3 weak items that give you a bunch of buttons to press.
Might be a "catering to casuals" sort of thing but I dunno. I mean, at lower level games, a lot of the times players just completely forget to use actives on items, so I doubt they want to make items that are only good if you press the button, and don't have stats backing them up when you're a nub and don't press the button.
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United States47024 Posts
Except that's simply not a reasonable direction to go with support items. If you make support items 2k+ gold, they would only ever finish one of them in a game based on their income and demand on buying wards/oracles. And even then only in a winning game or a game that went really long.
"Weak" items give supports more gameplay.
On July 15 2013 06:08 Ketara wrote:
Might be a "catering to casuals" sort of thing but I dunno. I mean, at lower level games, a lot of the times players just completely forget to use actives on items, so I doubt they want to make items that are only good if you press the button, and don't have stats backing them up when you're a nub and don't press the button.
Lower level games also involve supports that don't invest as much of their gold into buying wards/oracles/etc. so they end up getting more of the bigger items anyway. I don't see how adding this line of gameplay would detrimentally affect them.
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Lower the cooldown on mikael and bam new great support item with active
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How is clicking a button hard?If you pay 1k gold for that click in teamfights and nothing else you really should remember it lol.That's a really shitty reason.
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On July 15 2013 06:04 Ketara wrote:
I think Twin Shadows is a perfect example of a support item that's just about there and with some little tweaking could be great.
If that item had defensive stats or AD related stats it'd be so good in the jungle. I loved building it on my Akali and Diana jungle, but those are not that good so it's like meh. Something like a Xin or J4 would be so sick with Twin Shadows if it gave them something useful
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On July 15 2013 06:03 Requizen wrote:
I think there should just be active items with little to no stats. CV as an item, a stat-less Shurelyas, Randuin, or Locket active, or like DFG style active "hit a target and they take 20% more damage for the next 6 seconds" on an item. Its possible certain jungler might pick them up, but I think it'd be great for supports.
You mean current shurelias?
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United States47024 Posts
That's the thing, Twin Shadows' active makes it fundamentally an early-midgame ganking item. It's usefulness is limited lategame by the fact that the ghosts have a flat 450 MS, which is really unimpressive when everyone has upgraded boots and are sharing MS buffs like Acceleration Gate or Song of Celerity. So unless early support movement becomes a thing again, a support is never in position to make best use of the active.
On July 15 2013 06:12 RouaF wrote:
Lower the cooldown on mikael and bam new great support item with active
No, it would still be an AP item, just a better one.
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On July 15 2013 06:14 nafta wrote:
How is clicking a button hard?If you pay 1k gold for that click in teamfights and nothing else you really should remember it lol.That's a really shitty reason.
Bad players do a lot of stupid shit, but they still play the game. Items have to be balanced around bad players too.
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If a person can't even remember to use an item active game balance really should be irrelevant lol.If someone new comes into the game obviously it wouldn't be expected of him to use it.But can't he just get normal items then?
Is support even a thing for new players?
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United States47024 Posts
On July 15 2013 06:22 nafta wrote:
Is support even a thing for new players?
It is for those new players that are being force-fed the game by their friends who are already level 30 and are teaching them the game the wrong way.
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On July 15 2013 06:22 nafta wrote:
If a person can't even remember to use an item active game balance really should be irrelevant lol.If someone new comes into the game obviously it wouldn't be expected of him to use it.But can't he just get normal items then?
Is support even a thing for new players?
Yea that makes no sense to me. If the item is too hard to use at a certain level of play than just don't use it. There are plenty of really strong items that lower level players just don't use or use inefficiently.
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Is there somewhere I can practice making a OP/thread on Teamliquid? Is there a guide for pretty formatting?
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On July 15 2013 06:10 TheYango wrote:Except that's simply not a reasonable direction to go with support items. If you make support items 2k+ gold, they would only ever finish one of them in a game based on their income and demand on buying wards/oracles. And even then only in a winning game or a game that went really long. "Weak" items give supports more gameplay. Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:08 Ketara wrote:
Might be a "catering to casuals" sort of thing but I dunno. I mean, at lower level games, a lot of the times players just completely forget to use actives on items, so I doubt they want to make items that are only good if you press the button, and don't have stats backing them up when you're a nub and don't press the button. Lower level games also involve supports that don't invest as much of their gold into buying wards/oracles/etc. so they end up getting more of the bigger items anyway. I don't see how adding this line of gameplay would detrimentally affect them.
What would better support items look like? Baby versions of current active items, sans-worthless stats and maybe a slightly less powerful version of the effect? Perhaps small support items could be tuned to be ideal for skirmishes and later have an upgrade to a more team-oriented version, so you'd have 2-3 small actives and could upgrade them situationally for stats and actives.
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United States23745 Posts
On July 15 2013 06:24 TheYango wrote:It is for those new players that are being force-fed the game by their friends who are already level 30 and are teaching them the game the wrong way.
If it weren't for my friends teaching me the game I would have never kept playing :p
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Yango has brought up Medallion and Urn from Dota as good support items. Medallion gives armour and mana regen with an active that reduces armour on a target and yourself(So you net 0 armour gain but enemy is minus armour). Urn gives mana regen and strength(Hp) while having an active part where you store charges around hero kills then can use charge to either damage an enemy or heal ally/yourself. They are both relatively cheap items
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On July 15 2013 06:27 caelym wrote:
Is there somewhere I can practice making a OP/thread on Teamliquid? Is there a guide for pretty formatting?
Preview button?
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On July 15 2013 06:06 wei2coolman wrote:
This is too hard; just reintroduce HoG please.
What. Supports will still be buying sightstone, and everyone else on the team will be buying HOG. How does that fix anything at all?
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United States15536 Posts
On July 15 2013 06:36 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:06 wei2coolman wrote:
This is too hard; just reintroduce HoG please. What. Supports will still be buying sightstone, and everyone else on the team will be buying HOG. How does that fix anything at all?
You missed the sarcasm methinks.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 15 2013 06:32 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:24 TheYango wrote:On July 15 2013 06:22 nafta wrote:
Is support even a thing for new players? It is for those new players that are being force-fed the game by their friends who are already level 30 and are teaching them the game the wrong way. If it weren't for my friends teaching me the game I would have never kept playing :p
Obviously--I just disagree with force-feeding the concepts of roles, jungling, etc. too early in a player's LoL experience.
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United States15536 Posts
On July 15 2013 06:40 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:32 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 15 2013 06:24 TheYango wrote:On July 15 2013 06:22 nafta wrote:
Is support even a thing for new players? It is for those new players that are being force-fed the game by their friends who are already level 30 and are teaching them the game the wrong way. If it weren't for my friends teaching me the game I would have never kept playing :p Obviously--I just disagree with force-feeding the concepts of roles, jungling, etc. too early in a player's LoL experience.
This is interesting to me. How else would you explain what's going on in the game? I get the value of not shoving 1/1/2/jungle meta down someone's throat/having them figure out for themselves where each champion should go if they like (no reason not to do Ashe mid if you can do it well/have reason for it, regardless of meta) but roles seem fairly sensical.
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EPT
