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On July 23 2013 20:44 ItsFunToLose wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:14 XilDarkz wrote:
I think my offhand comment about the size of spells is getting me a lot of heat when it is more or less irrelevant in the scheme of things... yes, Ravage is bigger, sorry. No, Black Hole is definitely not. No, Void ulti is definitely not. Illuminate and invoker's cyclone are narrower but about as long. your face is offhand. get out. you're wrong and stupid. im going to get banned for nothing because you're too arrogant to hear what everyone is trying to tell you: You're bad. Play more. User was temp banned for this post.
this comment kind of reflects to me how the last 10 pages have been going in my eyes with everyone saying the same thing practically and then moving on to bashing him choosing to play syndra. but of course, this is just my perspective of everything
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Actually I bashed him for everything except playing Syndra.
I think Syndra is decent mid pick.
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United States37500 Posts
On July 23 2013 21:56 Clinic wrote:
wow that was a pretty elitist 5 page group beatdown on the syndra fetishdude, feels bad man
I was going to go into it when I read it at first on my phone but it went on for five pages and I'd rather not beat a dead horse. But it wasn't elitism here imo.
On July 23 2013 22:08 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:37 NeoIllusions wrote:
So many posts, wtf.
Syndra's legit, Arczer plays a beastly Syndra np. She's not my definition of a cheesy champion. I never said she wasn't legit  Cheesy just means she's not a champion pickable in any composition at any time and that it's a champion which isn't really characteristic of a class. Seriously, are there other ranged assassins like that ? Except the tanky-bruiser-assasin-DPS, Ryze.
Sounds like you mean "niche" then and I agree. Not every AP Mid can be Karthus tier.
On July 23 2013 22:21 wussleeQ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:44 ItsFunToLose wrote:On July 23 2013 20:14 XilDarkz wrote:
I think my offhand comment about the size of spells is getting me a lot of heat when it is more or less irrelevant in the scheme of things... yes, Ravage is bigger, sorry. No, Black Hole is definitely not. No, Void ulti is definitely not. Illuminate and invoker's cyclone are narrower but about as long. your face is offhand. get out. you're wrong and stupid. im going to get banned for nothing because you're too arrogant to hear what everyone is trying to tell you: You're bad. Play more. User was temp banned for this post. this comment kind of reflects to me how the last 10 pages have been going in my eyes with everyone saying the same thing practically and then moving on to bashing him choosing to play syndra. but of course, this is just my perspective of everything
It probably went off on a tangent, starting with his Syndra item build, which is legitimately bad.
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>.>
I'm away for the longest time and every time I check this thread I see everyone trying to choke each other to death
Come on, whats going on ;S
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On July 23 2013 22:08 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:37 NeoIllusions wrote:
So many posts, wtf.
Syndra's legit, Arczer plays a beastly Syndra np. She's not my definition of a cheesy champion. I never said she wasn't legit Cheesy just means she's not a champion pickable in any composition at any time and that it's a champion which isn't really characteristic of a class. Seriously, are there other ranged assassins like that ? Except the tanky-bruiser-assasin-DPS, Ryze.
i really dont see what makes syndra different from the average ap mid except shes awkward to play
you act like every ap carry is some sort of aoe god or something
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Dunno, on one hand at first I thought it was excessive bashing off the bat, on the other hand once the "conversation" kept going it became pretty obvious that Xildarkz doesn't have the open-mindedness necessary for us to help him and that most advice (especially that which doesn't validate him) will simply be lost.
Despite that I still think that it went too aggressive too quick, I mean I know we joke about being elitists and stuff and he revealed quickly that he wasn't really willing to try, but the start really made me think that if some gueninely interested guy came around and misworded his introduction he'd get hacked to pieces the same way. I thought we'd be more welcoming than that (while still having the pitchforks at arm's length).
Regarding Syndra she's good/easy to snowball with because she's got good range and base damage, giving her strong laning and an excellent execution/100-0 ult. So in lower levels it's easy to kill the enemy over and over during the laning phase then get fed by picking off people.
However she still has a higher skill floor than most "AD assassins" (Kha'Zix, Riven, Zed, etc.) and less sustained damage because of no autoattack scaling, so in larger fights or 1vX situations if you keep playing her that way (that is, 100-0 somebody then call it a day) she has weaker follow-up and a lack of contribution.
She still has more than enough utility (compared to Orianna, the fact that she can cast with little to no pauses and that she Qs directly on point while the ball has travel time actually makes her stronger at chasing as long as the enemy is initially in range) and sustained damage output to win fights and clean-up, though. However, the skill floor (and ceiling, but that's not the point here) is much higher than a simple "single target assassin with AoE stun" playstyle which is way in the lower levels we're speaking of she tends to fall off hard.
(In a way you could tell the same about Pantheon: you don't play the late game the same way you snowball the early-mid, but since most people are unable to grasp it (or are unwilling to adapt) they simply believe he falls off in general.)
On July 23 2013 12:22 Sid(TB) wrote:
hey, does anyone have math on what item build would provide the highest dmg for ap mid (say annie for example) vs someone who has bulwark on team + a negatron cloak?
atm i normally go something like sorc boots + death cap + void staff, but a friend of mine told me liandries is better than void staff in all situations but couldnt find a source for it.
Void Staff > Deathcap unless you have really insane ratios compared to base damage, once your opponent starts getting MR. It's just that Deathcap first gives you more "raw" burst once you enter midgame when you're at your power peak and people haven't started piling defenses or grouping yet; when I play champions for whom Deathcap is only a 2nd item (Orianna, Viktor, etc.) or worse (eg. I have to rush Zhonya as NLR item) and I'm getting behind I'll often build void staff directly instead so I can ensure a minimal damage output and remain useful.
The article he's talking about is pretty dated, and was discussed here. It's one of the worst piles of shit that I've ever seen when it comes to LoL because not only was it wrong, it was wrong in its premise (as in writer didn't do the research at all while it took me only 20 mins in custom games to debunk it), in reasoning (using Lux as a sustained damage mage) and it straight up warped information to make it go his way (widened the HP/MR chart despite the 4k HP / sub-100 MR being almost never seen, and gave it linear weight because you have as many targets with 2k HP than with 3k or 4k obv.).
Educate your friend. Tell him to dich RoG and read TL instead (even if he doesn't stumble on a Yango post he'll still learn random facts about Pokemon).
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
There's no easy road to victory. Everything is hard earned through time and effort. Take for example people like Destiny and Chu8 who came over from respective games of SC2 and HoN who both put in the time and effort to grind and actually get good before they became respected in League.
There is no easy way besides to accept criticism and buckle down and get better. Even though you may have experience in other games, we're on Teamliquid for crying out loud. Everyone here hailed from some other game and has that same knowledge as you. Stop complaining when people are attempting to give you criticism.
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United States37500 Posts
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Alaric I think if someone new came and fucked up their introduction, as long as they're open minded and can take criticism or on the flip side, back up their own points with solid proof/evidence, I doubt anyone would react the same.
This guy clearly wasn't backing up his talk and also wasn't taking any criticism at all.
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Yeah maybe (well, probably) I'm too mellow or didn't sniff the close-mindedness as early as you all, just saying for the first few posts of the conversation that was the feeling I had (that people were being a bit too harsh from the get go).
Also TIL that Elise's spiderlings are "conserved" when she switches forms. I thought the counter was refreshed when she turned human and she had to cast stuff again to recharge them.
Says a lot about how hard they are to kill and how spammy she is. 
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If anything I think people were being too nice to him from the get go. If I posted something like that in the Dota2 subforum or SC2 subforum I would probably get temp banned or warned.
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United States37500 Posts
On July 23 2013 22:43 DURRHURRDERP wrote:
If anything I think people were being too nice to him from the get go. If I posted something like that in the Dota2 subforum or SC2 subforum I would probably get temp banned or warned.
True or not, let's not use that metric. TL LoL is its own.
I prefer to explain things patiently or just ignore the post. That's just me though.
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I'm not really sure being agressive is the best way to deal with closed-minded people though.
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Oh. I got it, I didn't link him back to his first post about playing 6-12h a day with Diamond I/Challenger in mind, obviously if you take this introduction in account the follow-up smells a lot more cheesy.
Hm. I thought this post was a few days ago. I blame that for not recognising him. And if it isn't that old then I blame the heat that's distorting my perception of time. God damn weather, it's been so horrible 2-3 weeks. x_x
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United States37500 Posts
On July 23 2013 22:47 Requizen wrote:Welcome back Neo! You learned never to doubt VES? :3 To anyone who was watching my stream last night, I did a short write up of my thoughts and the feedback I saw in chat. I hope to keep doing these after every streaming session to focus on the things that I can improve on, let me know if I missed anything or if you have any tips left over.
zzz.
I'll definitely support VES if ecco is a starter. And just because I don't back VES like I do CLG, it doesn't mean I hold anything against the team or players. I'm simply opinionated when it comes to League and in general.
@Req, remind me to watch stream this weekend. Some of our staff were were laughing at your QQ (e.g. "Req, wai u so dum" level mistakes)
On July 23 2013 22:49 -Zoda- wrote:
I'm not really sure being agressive is the best way to deal with closed-minded people though.
Definitely not. I will say I pretty much agreed with DURRHURRDERP on all his points, just not his presentation. No biggie.
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ALRIGHT, bringing up a valid point someone made to him earlier because im scrub and actually want advice on it myself.
Item timings.
Champion power curves / timings
How does one figure these out? Like..i feel like i SORTA know what im doing around these things, like at some point i know i should have an item or expect a champion to be strong and check their items etc. I also know not to engage certain champions at times if they're wellfed or itemed-up
But its like..all subliminal and i dont really understand it, its just sorta in the back of my head that my jarvan should get dat bruta or i shouldn't fight tryndamere.
How do i refine my subliminal thoughts and learn this shit better?
ALSO @Teut spamming games with one champ is a good way to learn, but first you should play a game or two with all the champs, your understanding of a champ increases dramatically with just one game, wouldnt you agree?
EDIT: The post in question for Herpdederp. (Durr.) explanation of the other points would be nice too, while i feel i "know" how i should improve those, an explanation from someone better is always welcome
4) Bringing up mechanical skill is a pile of horseshit. Having "good mechanics" is relavent only to a point (in LoL OR DotA). Understanding lane matchups, champion power curves, build paths, jungle timings, game flow, gold/item disparities, relative advantage/disadvantages, etc are all far more important and contribute/synergize with mechanical skill. In BW having "good mechanics" was extremely important. It didn't matter if you had all the game knowledge in the world if you couldn't properly control your units or react quickly and efficiently. It is less important (relatively) in SC2. In MOBAs where you are controlling <5 units at MOST, "good mechanics" is going to comprise MAYBE 10% of what makes a good player.
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dunno, i havent played about 1/3 or 1/2 the champs in the game, but i regularly scour lolwiki looking at champ abilities and numbers so i have a better idea of their strengths and weaknesses
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Unfortunately as a concept it's really intuitive and requires a really deep understanding of w/e champion you're playing. Especially in lane as you need to know when to fight/not fight. Really comes down to common sense (tracking cs/items/gold) combined with experience (what your champion is capable of IE: annie/any bursty AP caster bursting someone 100-0).
It's one of those things that you can see people who spam a lot of games have a much deeper understanding of for their respective champion (IE: that TW gragas dude who streams all the time on twitch).
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Whenever i play a new champ, i always feel like i get a better understanding of their play, well at least the more-complex ones
Sometimes getting a slight feel for something is better then looking at numbers, although both are legit and should be used (I should look at numbers more..well..i should look at numbers, i never do.)
Like recently i played kennen and actually learnt how his fucking stun / ult works
EDIT: At durr, so basically what you're saying is my method of "learning" is going correctly, by saying that i feel like im "feeling" when i should be doing these things, i just need to keep playing untill its a solid feeling as opposed to one im tentatively sure about?
Guess im along the right path then
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EPT
