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On July 23 2013 09:09 BlasiuS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 09:02 UniversalSnip wrote:On July 23 2013 08:34 BlasiuS wrote:On July 23 2013 08:20 UniversalSnip wrote:On July 23 2013 05:35 Phunkapotamus wrote:
The new Spellbreaker item seems like a "Garen/Trynd/Gangplank" only item. It's melee-only- so what melee champs care about crit? If you don't care about crit I expect Maw to be better if you need that MR slot. I suppose it'd be good for Tankier champs that want to go boots other than Merc Treads.
It would depend on the numbers but I doubt it'll be cost effective given how cost ineffective crit is. Maybe if you sat on avarice blade for a long time. Yeah I really don't get what the crit is doing on this item. I don't even understand who it's aimed at. Is the crit worse than the extra AD from Maw, considering the cost difference of the items? Seems like it could be a cost-effective alternative to Maw for aa-bruisers. or what about some kind of crit-bruiser build, with items like spellbreaker/atma's/youmuu's. Also getting spellbreaker allows you to possibly get berserker greaves and still have tenacity. you want to STACK crit on a bruiser? wtf? All of those crit items also give AD. Most aa-bruisers have built in AS-steroid. So now you have all 3 ingredients necessary to take advantage of the multiplicative scaling. So, yes. Edit: also my other questions?
i can't even respect this thought, it's so ridiculous. I'm imagining a trundle or renekton in my game with spellbreaker atmas youmuu and it's just such a pathetically bad build. Your autos are barely even going to hurt more than with a regular build because you have all these extraneous stats, you're not going to get any of them off because you're squishy despite your janky armor/mr combo, and you have atmas with no bonus health. Buying crit doesn't get much better just because you're buying other items that have crit and also ad. You can buy ghostblade and atmas right now if you think they somehow fit each other, it's just nobody does because those items are exponentially more awful together than they are alone. It's an incredibly straightforward non-combo.
Is the crit worse than the extra AD from Maw, considering the cost difference of the items? Seems like it could be a cost-effective alternative to Maw for aa-bruisers.
I have no idea. It's on PBE so the numbers can switch tomorrow anyway. There is already a good option that fills maw's slot, though, which is maw. What, exactly, is the reason it needs an alternative, and who should that alternative be aimed at?
Also getting spellbreaker allows you to possibly get berserker greaves and still have tenacity.
yah, true, but there's a direct conflict between the classes that even want tenacity and the classes that want crit and berserkers. When was the last time you saw trynd buy mercury treads...? When was the last time you saw renekton buy shiv?
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Does anyone remember all of the champions that have had range nerfs in the past? All I can think of is Kassadin, Kennen, Orianna, Nocturne (and TF, Panth), Urgot, Elise, Amumu, Shaco, and Diana. Historically range nerfs have been pretty brutal, but when I look over that list of champions most of them have been competitive at some point after the nerfs, despite their win rates tanking. Do you guys think Ryze will follow this pattern of an initial sharp drop in usage and win-rate, followed by a slow re-evaluation and a return to competitive play? Or will the movespeed buffs be enough to make up for range nerfs?
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Why wouldn't trynd want tenacity? Unlike ranged autoattackers, he can't just stay away from CC and his ult only prevents damage.
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On July 23 2013 09:38 thenexusp wrote:
Why wouldn't trynd want tenacity? Unlike ranged autoattackers, he can't just stay away from CC and his ult only prevents damage.
well go ahead and buy it then, nothing stopping you from getting MR and tenacity.
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even if I had that item I'd rather have tabi or swifties (I mean thats not really your point but Zerkers are terrible)
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On July 23 2013 09:12 BlasiuS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 09:10 MoonBear wrote:On July 23 2013 09:09 BlasiuS wrote:On July 23 2013 09:02 UniversalSnip wrote:On July 23 2013 08:34 BlasiuS wrote:On July 23 2013 08:20 UniversalSnip wrote:On July 23 2013 05:35 Phunkapotamus wrote:
The new Spellbreaker item seems like a "Garen/Trynd/Gangplank" only item. It's melee-only- so what melee champs care about crit? If you don't care about crit I expect Maw to be better if you need that MR slot. I suppose it'd be good for Tankier champs that want to go boots other than Merc Treads.
It would depend on the numbers but I doubt it'll be cost effective given how cost ineffective crit is. Maybe if you sat on avarice blade for a long time. Yeah I really don't get what the crit is doing on this item. I don't even understand who it's aimed at. Is the crit worse than the extra AD from Maw, considering the cost difference of the items? Seems like it could be a cost-effective alternative to Maw for aa-bruisers. or what about some kind of crit-bruiser build, with items like spellbreaker/atma's/youmuu's. Also getting spellbreaker allows you to possibly get berserker greaves and still have tenacity. you want to STACK crit on a bruiser? wtf? All of those crit items also give AD. Most aa-bruisers have built in AS-steroid. So now you have all 3 ingredients necessary to take advantage of the multiplicative scaling. So, yes. Then they get kited indefinitely and go home and cry. Well, until Olaf gets buffed maybe. Well that's no different than building those same bruisers without crit. Not really relevant to the question. Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 09:12 mr_tolkien wrote:
Most bruisers can't auto attack more than once or twice in a whole teamfight. That of course depends on the champ.
Except instead of being tanky and taking a while to kill thereby distracting the other team's carries and hopefully buying enough time for your team to kill everything, you just explode because you're a squishy bruiser who built crit and resists and have no raw hp to really tank through the LW damage pulverising your body.
Also because you take so long to get into melee range and finally get some autos off, you spend all that gold on maybe one or two crits. Unless you go hit their tank in which case thanks to no LW you're not doing much damage so the crit is still wasted.
You need to think about what you can buy with your gold that is going to give you maximum impact. And building crit on, say, a Udyr or Renekton is not going to do much. Let's say you're playing Renekton. For the cost of Ghostblade + Atmas you can get a Warmogs+Thormail or Randuins+Tiamat or Funfire+Mercs+Warden's Mail. I know what kind of Renekton I am going to be terrified of when it runs at me (and it's not the Ghostblade Atmas Renekton).
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Is it really wrong for Spellbreaker to be a niche item though? Nashor's is a niche item that only a few champions really make full use of but that isn't an inherently bad thing for the game.
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On July 23 2013 09:46 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 09:12 BlasiuS wrote:On July 23 2013 09:10 MoonBear wrote:On July 23 2013 09:09 BlasiuS wrote:On July 23 2013 09:02 UniversalSnip wrote:On July 23 2013 08:34 BlasiuS wrote:On July 23 2013 08:20 UniversalSnip wrote:On July 23 2013 05:35 Phunkapotamus wrote:
The new Spellbreaker item seems like a "Garen/Trynd/Gangplank" only item. It's melee-only- so what melee champs care about crit? If you don't care about crit I expect Maw to be better if you need that MR slot. I suppose it'd be good for Tankier champs that want to go boots other than Merc Treads.
It would depend on the numbers but I doubt it'll be cost effective given how cost ineffective crit is. Maybe if you sat on avarice blade for a long time. Yeah I really don't get what the crit is doing on this item. I don't even understand who it's aimed at. Is the crit worse than the extra AD from Maw, considering the cost difference of the items? Seems like it could be a cost-effective alternative to Maw for aa-bruisers. or what about some kind of crit-bruiser build, with items like spellbreaker/atma's/youmuu's. Also getting spellbreaker allows you to possibly get berserker greaves and still have tenacity. you want to STACK crit on a bruiser? wtf? All of those crit items also give AD. Most aa-bruisers have built in AS-steroid. So now you have all 3 ingredients necessary to take advantage of the multiplicative scaling. So, yes. Then they get kited indefinitely and go home and cry. Well, until Olaf gets buffed maybe. Well that's no different than building those same bruisers without crit. Not really relevant to the question. On July 23 2013 09:12 mr_tolkien wrote:
Most bruisers can't auto attack more than once or twice in a whole teamfight. That of course depends on the champ. Except instead of being tanky and taking a while to kill thereby distracting the other team's carries and hopefully buying enough time for your team to kill everything, you just explode because you're a squishy bruiser who built crit and resists and have no raw hp to really tank through the LW damage pulverising your body. Also because you take so long to get into melee range and finally get some autos off, you spend all that gold on maybe one or two crits. Unless you go hit their tank in which case thanks to no LW you're not doing much damage so the crit is still wasted. You need to think about what you can buy with your gold that is going to give you maximum impact. And building crit on, say, a Udyr or Renekton is not going to do much. Let's say you're playing Renekton. For the cost of Ghostblade + Atmas you can get a Warmogs+Thormail or Randuins+Tiamat or Funfire+Mercs+Warden's Mail. I know what kind of Renekton I am going to be terrified of when it runs at me (and it's not the Ghostblade Atmas Renekton).
Why is everyone suggesting these items go on Renekton -_- He's not an aa-bruiser at all, and thus is a terrible example.
You're assuming a lot that changes based on team comps. I wouldn't write it off so quickly. Building those items without building any health would be stupid.
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I think the point is that the crit is wasted. If the cost takes crit into account maw will be better for efficiency. Bruiser abilities typically don't crit (Garen spin the only one?), so it's wasted on any CDR based bruiser.
The only consideration is for tenacity... in which case it may be a "fuck it i'm at 6 items I'm going to sell my merc treads" situation. Or if they have some weird autoattack heavy AP team with slows like 5 Teemos.
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I mean that would be cool, but who are these champions?
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On July 23 2013 09:37 c.Deadly wrote:
Does anyone remember all of the champions that have had range nerfs in the past? All I can think of is Kassadin, Kennen, Orianna, Nocturne (and TF, Panth), Urgot, Elise, Amumu, Shaco, and Diana. Historically range nerfs have been pretty brutal, but when I look over that list of champions most of them have been competitive at some point after the nerfs, despite their win rates tanking. Do you guys think Ryze will follow this pattern of an initial sharp drop in usage and win-rate, followed by a slow re-evaluation and a return to competitive play? Or will the movespeed buffs be enough to make up for range nerfs?
Brand 
And to be honest it seems like a nerf to midlane Ryze but more of a buff to slightly tankier toplane Ryze.
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well Orianna was rebuffed, as was DIana, shaco sucks, and Urgot has a lot of problems stemming from his range.
Kennen rebuffed, what am I missing I guess Kassadin? I never experenced the terrors of release Kassadin so I can't really say much.
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On July 23 2013 09:05 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 08:47 sylverfyre wrote:
Felt up for some old school shit, so I'm playing Terranigma. Oh man I remember that game! The story seems straightforward for the first two and a half chapters but then it gets really weird pretty quickly. It's also kind of funny how at one point in the game you have the option of voting for the capitalist or the communist guy for a town, and if you vote for the communist guy the entire town->city upgrade thing gets locked forever and there's no way to recover.
You should be even older and play Soul Blazer.
Man, I miss Quintet.
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the eyes of the world are upon you req
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Be still, my beating heart.
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red kennen. a bold choice. few players would be brave enough to bring a recolor skin into a promo match.
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On July 23 2013 10:05 Slusher wrote:
well Orianna was rebuffed, as was DIana, shaco sucks, and Urgot has a lot of problems stemming from his range.
Kennen rebuffed, what am I missing I guess Kassadin? I never experenced the terrors of release Kassadin so I can't really say much.
Whether or not they were rebuffed doesn't really have any relevance to my post. I'm interested in player's perceptions of range nerfs, not whether or not riot missed the mark with a round of nerfs
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On July 23 2013 10:30 UniversalSnip wrote:
red kennen. a bold choice. few players would be brave enough to bring a recolor skin into a promo match.
IT'S A DEADPOOL SKIN OK
Req I stand by your decision >
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max Q lux da hot new thing
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EPT
