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On July 16 2013 23:44 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 23:25 Requizen wrote:On July 16 2013 23:10 nojitosunrise wrote:On July 16 2013 22:27 Requizen wrote:
Except, even as someone who still prefers League to Dota and likes SC2 about equally, LoL really only got where it was by chance. If DotA had been open beta sooner, or if League hadn't gotten a massive popularity boost for whatever reason (probably streams and the like,), it could be completely backwards. There's a lot of circumstances that put League in the right spot while making DotA play second fiddle.
. Ya no it didn't. LoL got where it is today because their developers gave a damn about their community. No other game developer comes close to Riot's commitment to their community. Heck, the only reason LoL was at WCG 2010 was because every begged Riot for a tournament. Plenty of developers deeply care about their community without seeing the same results as LoL. Riot had the perfect storm of factors that made their game so successful. - They started riding the f2p model early on, before a lot of other games caught on. Now the market is awash in them.
- Lots of MMOs were dying, and people were looking for a new way to spend all their time. Enter MOBAs. DotA2 was still in closed beta and very elitist, new players didn't want to have to go back to WC3, and HoN was shit. LoL was good (not as good as it is now), and was open and free.
- At the same time, solo streaming had really started to come into its own as a source of income during WoL's heyday. Sure people were doing it before on things like CS and the like, but SC2 had kind of made it skyrocket. LoL players were getting huge into it to, Regi and HSGG making their name in VoDs and streams alongside tourneys.
- Speaking of tourneys and SC2, having WoL pump up eSports hype in the west left room for someone else to step in. In the western market, you really only had the choice of BW/SC2 or shooters. With DotA2 in Beta and LoL gaining momentum, it filled that opening quite nicely, bringing in lots of casuals and viewers.
I'm not saying Riot's amazing community involvement has nothing to do with it, it helped the process immensely. But LoL was there at just the perfect time to bring in all the stream viewing, eSport loving, ex-MMO and SC2 players that were looking for a free and fun game. If the beta had started 2 years earlier or later, we would not be seeing the same situation. That's such a peculiar way to look at it. I mean, I guess your point is the timing was right, but the game was out for awhile, grew a small collection of loyal fans who really loved it, and it really started ballooning in player base months after it was a thing. I'd argue that League MADE it the right time for LoL. They made an entertaining game, and even if people were liking a different game, they left it to come play LoL. Idk about anyone else, but I was palying other games before I played LoL, and then I subsequently stopped playing the other games.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. These statements of "well DotA and SC players must feel silly because we won by being the better game" are just patently false. LoL isn't intrinsically better than either, it just hit this sweet spot that made it far more marketable and presentable. SC2, while less intensive than BW, is still a harder and deeper game in most aspects. DotA is pretty much a similar game with a lot of different mechanics, some easier, some harder, some just different. I was just arguing against the idea that LoL "won" by being so much better than the "eSports competition", when that's not entirely the case.
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On July 16 2013 23:42 SoulSever wrote:Was more or less expecting someone to say that. In case it wasn't clear, I don't intend on trying to make it as a pro  Though if I'm a stay at home dad, maybe I'll have time?
I actually wrote a blog on this very recently.
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On July 17 2013 00:02 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 23:42 SoulSever wrote:On July 16 2013 23:39 Alaric wrote:
Obligatory "Vileroze has time". Was more or less expecting someone to say that. In case it wasn't clear, I don't intend on trying to make it as a pro Though if I'm a stay at home dad, maybe I'll have time? I actually wrote a blog on this very recently.
Well playing MOBAs/RTSs isn't viable, but being a single player gamer is still pretty attainable. Probably can't rock the loud surround sound on Halo, but nothing's keeping you from sitting on the couch with a controller while the kid plays.
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On July 16 2013 23:53 ticklishmusic wrote:
I was never completely satisfied with SC2 after years of BW, but I know I used to shit on League when I played SC2.
Can't remember the last time I went to a SC2 forum or watched a stream now though, heh.
All I remember back when the LoL bashing was going on was that it was mostly SC2 players, which I thought was hilariously ironic.
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On July 16 2013 23:57 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 23:44 Zdrastochye wrote:On July 16 2013 23:25 Requizen wrote:On July 16 2013 23:10 nojitosunrise wrote:On July 16 2013 22:27 Requizen wrote:
Except, even as someone who still prefers League to Dota and likes SC2 about equally, LoL really only got where it was by chance. If DotA had been open beta sooner, or if League hadn't gotten a massive popularity boost for whatever reason (probably streams and the like,), it could be completely backwards. There's a lot of circumstances that put League in the right spot while making DotA play second fiddle.
. Ya no it didn't. LoL got where it is today because their developers gave a damn about their community. No other game developer comes close to Riot's commitment to their community. Heck, the only reason LoL was at WCG 2010 was because every begged Riot for a tournament. Plenty of developers deeply care about their community without seeing the same results as LoL. Riot had the perfect storm of factors that made their game so successful. - They started riding the f2p model early on, before a lot of other games caught on. Now the market is awash in them.
- Lots of MMOs were dying, and people were looking for a new way to spend all their time. Enter MOBAs. DotA2 was still in closed beta and very elitist, new players didn't want to have to go back to WC3, and HoN was shit. LoL was good (not as good as it is now), and was open and free.
- At the same time, solo streaming had really started to come into its own as a source of income during WoL's heyday. Sure people were doing it before on things like CS and the like, but SC2 had kind of made it skyrocket. LoL players were getting huge into it to, Regi and HSGG making their name in VoDs and streams alongside tourneys.
- Speaking of tourneys and SC2, having WoL pump up eSports hype in the west left room for someone else to step in. In the western market, you really only had the choice of BW/SC2 or shooters. With DotA2 in Beta and LoL gaining momentum, it filled that opening quite nicely, bringing in lots of casuals and viewers.
I'm not saying Riot's amazing community involvement has nothing to do with it, it helped the process immensely. But LoL was there at just the perfect time to bring in all the stream viewing, eSport loving, ex-MMO and SC2 players that were looking for a free and fun game. If the beta had started 2 years earlier or later, we would not be seeing the same situation. That's such a peculiar way to look at it. I mean, I guess your point is the timing was right, but the game was out for awhile, grew a small collection of loyal fans who really loved it, and it really started ballooning in player base months after it was a thing. I'd argue that League MADE it the right time for LoL. They made an entertaining game, and even if people were liking a different game, they left it to come play LoL. Idk about anyone else, but I was palying other games before I played LoL, and then I subsequently stopped playing the other games. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. These statements of "well DotA and SC players must feel silly because we won by being the better game" are just patently false. LoL isn't intrinsically better than either, it just hit this sweet spot that made it far more marketable and presentable. SC2, while less intensive than BW, is still a harder and deeper game in most aspects. DotA is pretty much a similar game with a lot of different mechanics, some easier, some harder, some just different. I was just arguing against the idea that LoL "won" by being so much better than the "eSports competition", when that's not entirely the case.
DotA is unquestionably harder to play. I just wanted to squash that rumor right now that League takes as much effort to play as DotA. They're similar from a strategic point of view, but DotA has a lot higher mechanical floor AND ceiling.
Not that you state that, but I also don't get it when people try to argue against it.
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I guess I'm gunna go play dota 2 for awhile until this comcast thing blows over. Kinda ridiculous that almost EVERY game I've played has been affected by this ISP/Riot Conflict. Riot says its not them, Comcast says it isn't them. I'd rather play league, but I can't Ice Skate (this is the packet loss thing) and play .
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I think by virtue of being a RTS SC2 is going to be more difficult that most if not all MOBA's because of the necessity of multitasking. I won't say SC2 is *harder* that League persay, but playing 3 games of SC2 with maximum intensity takes a lot more out of me than 3 games of League at max.
Then you can just go through and list all the differences like teamplay vs. solo, constant patching and itnroduction of new champs, map pool, etc.
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On July 17 2013 00:31 ticklishmusic wrote:
I think by virtue of being a RTS SC2 is going to be more difficult that most if not all MOBA's because of the necessity of multitasking. I won't say SC2 is *harder* that League persay, but playing 3 games of SC2 with maximum intensity takes a lot more out of me than 3 games of League at max.
Then you can just go through and list all the differences like teamplay vs. solo, constant patching and itnroduction of new champs, map pool, etc.
I think what you're getting at is that it's an apples and oranges comparison.
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On July 17 2013 00:33 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 00:31 ticklishmusic wrote:
I think by virtue of being a RTS SC2 is going to be more difficult that most if not all MOBA's because of the necessity of multitasking. I won't say SC2 is *harder* that League persay, but playing 3 games of SC2 with maximum intensity takes a lot more out of me than 3 games of League at max.
Then you can just go through and list all the differences like teamplay vs. solo, constant patching and itnroduction of new champs, map pool, etc. I think what you're getting at is that it's an apples and oranges comparison.
Well Oranges are clearly superior to Apples. 
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United States47024 Posts
On July 17 2013 00:02 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 23:42 SoulSever wrote:On July 16 2013 23:39 Alaric wrote:
Obligatory "Vileroze has time". Was more or less expecting someone to say that. In case it wasn't clear, I don't intend on trying to make it as a pro Though if I'm a stay at home dad, maybe I'll have time? I actually wrote a blog on this very recently.
Wave is pretty much the TL LoL resident gamer dad.
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agreed there but apple juice is just as good as orange juice what the fucks up with that?
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On July 17 2013 00:51 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 00:33 Zdrastochye wrote:On July 17 2013 00:31 ticklishmusic wrote:
I think by virtue of being a RTS SC2 is going to be more difficult that most if not all MOBA's because of the necessity of multitasking. I won't say SC2 is *harder* that League persay, but playing 3 games of SC2 with maximum intensity takes a lot more out of me than 3 games of League at max.
Then you can just go through and list all the differences like teamplay vs. solo, constant patching and itnroduction of new champs, map pool, etc. I think what you're getting at is that it's an apples and oranges comparison. Well Oranges are clearly superior to Apples.
Both suck, eat Grapes instead.
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Eh, different maps aren't really necessary. Starcraft needs them because otherwise there are basically only 9 different starting states (TvZ, TvT, etc.) (maybe times 3 if it's a 4 player map) and that gets stale after a while. For League of Legends, you could list the 5 champions on each team and you would be able to pinpoint the exact professional game that was played from that information alone.
And there's already TT and Dominion, which are meant to be competitive maps even if not enough balance attention is being paid to them.
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On July 17 2013 00:54 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 00:51 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 17 2013 00:33 Zdrastochye wrote:On July 17 2013 00:31 ticklishmusic wrote:
I think by virtue of being a RTS SC2 is going to be more difficult that most if not all MOBA's because of the necessity of multitasking. I won't say SC2 is *harder* that League persay, but playing 3 games of SC2 with maximum intensity takes a lot more out of me than 3 games of League at max.
Then you can just go through and list all the differences like teamplay vs. solo, constant patching and itnroduction of new champs, map pool, etc. I think what you're getting at is that it's an apples and oranges comparison. Well Oranges are clearly superior to Apples. Both suck, eat Grapes instead.
Smite sucks
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United States15536 Posts
On July 17 2013 00:54 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 00:54 Requizen wrote:On July 17 2013 00:51 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 17 2013 00:33 Zdrastochye wrote:On July 17 2013 00:31 ticklishmusic wrote:
I think by virtue of being a RTS SC2 is going to be more difficult that most if not all MOBA's because of the necessity of multitasking. I won't say SC2 is *harder* that League persay, but playing 3 games of SC2 with maximum intensity takes a lot more out of me than 3 games of League at max.
Then you can just go through and list all the differences like teamplay vs. solo, constant patching and itnroduction of new champs, map pool, etc. I think what you're getting at is that it's an apples and oranges comparison. Well Oranges are clearly superior to Apples. Both suck, eat Grapes instead. Smite sucks
Smite sucks, LoL sucks, DotA sucks, SC2 sucks, Solstice Arena is the only true gamer's game.
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On July 17 2013 00:54 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 00:54 Requizen wrote:On July 17 2013 00:51 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 17 2013 00:33 Zdrastochye wrote:On July 17 2013 00:31 ticklishmusic wrote:
I think by virtue of being a RTS SC2 is going to be more difficult that most if not all MOBA's because of the necessity of multitasking. I won't say SC2 is *harder* that League persay, but playing 3 games of SC2 with maximum intensity takes a lot more out of me than 3 games of League at max.
Then you can just go through and list all the differences like teamplay vs. solo, constant patching and itnroduction of new champs, map pool, etc. I think what you're getting at is that it's an apples and oranges comparison. Well Oranges are clearly superior to Apples. Both suck, eat Grapes instead. Smite sucks
I was talking about TF2, the true eSport.
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you all wrong quake is the real esport shame its pretty much dead now
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TF2 competitive was pretty fun back in the day before hats and all that. Gravelpit OP
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EPT
