On July 16 2013 17:10 TheYango wrote: The fact that Ryze top is such a huge thing right now pretty much kills the idea that being gankable makes laners totally untenable.
Ryze is a special case I think. He works by starting mana crystal+2 with mpen armor mr mana quint, and blowing every Q cooldown possible on the enemy while pushing like a madman in 1v1 so you can base ASAP for tear, and relying on ryze's ability to outscale every other top laner, and decent 1v1 ability to stay in lane. It's safe from the first gank timing at around 3-3:30 because of the 1 min utility ward, and past that you should be able to come to lane with a ward., and if the enemy jungler commits to ganking you still(longer gank path, or else camping lane bush), you just TP right back to lane and continue farming. When the ryze plays well, it's very difficult to die 1v1, and it takes a monstrous amount of jungle camping to set him so far behind that he won't come back in 10-15 minutes to kill your whole team anyways.
Gankable doesn't really matter. It's gank recovery that does. A pantheon who dies early on somehow probably isn't going to recover no matter how long the game goes. SInged might die once or twice early on. But against a lot of laner's, he'll still find a way to walk past the turret and start farming, and be absolutely untouchable.
Amui brings up another great point; that's also why we see a lot of NA teams feel comfortable running the 1v2 Karthus lane; you can set him back early on. But, early on, Karthus can ramp up on low amount of gold simply with Tears + RoA; and continue farming after early set back; that he eventually ramps up to being a beast. Similar to Zed, Jayce, Kha (pre 3.8).
I dont see how any of that is relevant to the stated problem: That if a jungler goes to a lane it is stronger than not going to a lane, particularly earlygame after the Buff(smiteless)>buff route.
The aforementioned Ryze plays the same either way, the only difference is he either: A. Shits on my laner because I didn't come, or B. Dies/Is forced to back while my laner has less than 50% HP after my gank. How has this case disproven the power of lane presence?
How long does your s2 ranked mmr stay relevant? I'm playing on a friend's account that hasn't been played on in like ~9 months, and I do my 10 ranked placements, go 7-3, and get placed in gold 5. I'm not complaining at all lol, just think it's weird that I would get gold.
What if they made an enchant system (like boots) to attach an active ability to a Kindlegem? So for example there could be - give targeted teammate bonus armour/mr - shred targeted enemy's armour/mr - give selected teammate some movespeed - place AoE slowing field etc. You just choose one active out of a handful of options and enchant your Kindlegem with that active. After that it's a dead end. Maybe this would be cheap enough for supports to buy but not strong enough or slot efficient enough for laners to buy. Some actives that help with dueling or ganking or whatever could be good for junglers too so they have more options to choose from.
On July 16 2013 18:21 IMoperator wrote: How long does your s2 ranked mmr stay relevant? I'm playing on a friend's account that hasn't been played on in like ~9 months, and I do my 10 ranked placements, go 7-3, and get placed in gold 5. I'm not complaining at all lol, just think it's weird that I would get gold.
S2 mmr doesn't do jack shit if I remember correctly.
On July 16 2013 18:21 IMoperator wrote: How long does your s2 ranked mmr stay relevant? I'm playing on a friend's account that hasn't been played on in like ~9 months, and I do my 10 ranked placements, go 7-3, and get placed in gold 5. I'm not complaining at all lol, just think it's weird that I would get gold.
S2 mmr doesn't do jack shit if I remember correctly.
really? that's weird. The 7 game win streak I had must have been enough to play against mostly golds.
On July 16 2013 18:21 IMoperator wrote: How long does your s2 ranked mmr stay relevant? I'm playing on a friend's account that hasn't been played on in like ~9 months, and I do my 10 ranked placements, go 7-3, and get placed in gold 5. I'm not complaining at all lol, just think it's weird that I would get gold.
S2 mmr doesn't do jack shit if I remember correctly.
really? that's weird. The 7 game win streak I had must have been enough to play against mostly golds.
If you haven't played in that long, the variance on your MMR is way up there, and you're probably close to jumping a division every game in terms of MMR.
On July 16 2013 18:15 cLutZ wrote: I dont see how any of that is relevant to the stated problem: That if a jungler goes to a lane it is stronger than not going to a lane, particularly earlygame after the Buff(smiteless)>buff route.
The aforementioned Ryze plays the same either way, the only difference is he either: A. Shits on my laner because I didn't come, or B. Dies/Is forced to back while my laner has less than 50% HP after my gank. How has this case disproven the power of lane presence?
It's stronger, but is it worth it. If the laner had a ward opening(rather common these days), there's no good way to gank it unseen on either side without taking a much longer route that pretty much must succeed. If the laner didn't do a ward opening, you can expect them to play much more defensively, and once again, it's hard to gank.
Also if all you did was come to lane, launch CC into the creep wave, dude flashes, and now you've set the creep momentum towards their turret, you haven't actually accomplished much. There are few openings where you don't have enough potions to regen after a gank brings you to half. Might not be able to do much more than take the pushing waves, but it's enough to not be behind at all. Opponent is zoned for a bit, definitely out of CS, but ducking in and out for EXP is still very possible against double melee, or melee ranged. You almost have to stay until it hits turret, probably by helping it push and taking EXP, otherwise your laner will be stuck with a somewhat slowly pushing wave, and the potential for opposing jungler to come. A slowly pushing wave can actually punish your own laner even more than the gank, because if the other laner can stall it just outside the tower, laner can't base because the lane hasn't pushed in and all enemy creeps are dying, and staying to CS is risky because it's so pushed that even a ward might not save you.
TL;DR: If you gank early, and force a flash, and maybe a pot or two, it's not a huge advantage for your top laner, and also generally doesn't force somebody to base. They might be sitting positioned very defensively under the turret while healing, but they aren't zoned out of EXP, and early on, that's what matters. You are also sharing exp with laner.
On July 16 2013 18:21 IMoperator wrote: How long does your s2 ranked mmr stay relevant? I'm playing on a friend's account that hasn't been played on in like ~9 months, and I do my 10 ranked placements, go 7-3, and get placed in gold 5. I'm not complaining at all lol, just think it's weird that I would get gold.
S2 mmr doesn't do jack shit if I remember correctly.
really? that's weird. The 7 game win streak I had must have been enough to play against mostly golds.
If you haven't played in that long, the variance on your MMR is way up there, and you're probably close to jumping a division every game in terms of MMR.
yeah according to that mmr thing my mmr is "beyond your league". If only I could get that on my main account ;_;
On July 16 2013 17:10 TheYango wrote: The fact that Ryze top is such a huge thing right now pretty much kills the idea that being gankable makes laners totally untenable.
Ryze is a special case I think. He works by starting mana crystal+2 with mpen armor mr mana quint, and blowing every Q cooldown possible on the enemy while pushing like a madman in 1v1 so you can base ASAP for tear, and relying on ryze's ability to outscale every other top laner, and decent 1v1 ability to stay in lane. It's safe from the first gank timing at around 3-3:30 because of the 1 min utility ward, and past that you should be able to come to lane with a ward., and if the enemy jungler commits to ganking you still(longer gank path, or else camping lane bush), you just TP right back to lane and continue farming. When the ryze plays well, it's very difficult to die 1v1, and it takes a monstrous amount of jungle camping to set him so far behind that he won't come back in 10-15 minutes to kill your whole team anyways.
Gankable doesn't really matter. It's gank recovery that does. A pantheon who dies early on somehow probably isn't going to recover no matter how long the game goes. SInged might die once or twice early on. But against a lot of laner's, he'll still find a way to walk past the turret and start farming, and be absolutely untouchable.
This made me wish to play Ryze top. Opponent was a Trynda running ONE crit red.
He took E lvl1, spinned to me, and hit a crit.
Then lvl2 he blew ghost and killed me because I took Q lvl1. Yes, under mah tower.
im leveling new smurf decided to try the nerfed TT method(was 20IP short for AD quint wanted fast game) i won game under 5minutes and got 0 IP and xp WTF
On July 16 2013 14:51 SwizzY wrote: Dear god league is simply unplayable now. Some weird packet loss problems with Comcast leading to http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3521364 and other fringe posts. Sigh, time to dust off the old SC2. :/
People calling Comcast say Comcast says that it's Riot's fault. Sounds like a blame game to me and Riot's never been in the clean either. They've had more server issues / bug in a month than SC BW would have over years.
EPT
