On July 16 2013 14:42 SidianTheBard wrote: So in a few weeks I'm going to be away from Solid internet. I'll have access to 3G and 4G internet either with my phone or I know I have one of those USB Internet Dongles. Wondering if anyone has ever played LoL using those? I'm sure playing with bots wouldn't be bad because if you lag against bots who cares. But man, I know I'll want to play some normals with friends or some soloqueue but if it's going to be completely laggy it's going to be waaay to frustrating to play.
Stable ~220-250 ping to EUW from sri lanka on a 3g dongle. Without such distance you're probably looking at 100-150. Which is completely playable.
If its too frustrating for you to play, you're a little ****ing girl.
haha, good to hear. With my normal internet I usually have ~80 latency, but that's with high-speed cable internet so I was a little worried with a 3g or 4g connection it would be muuuuch worse. Thanks for the info!
On July 16 2013 14:51 SwizzY wrote: Dear god league is simply unplayable now. Some weird packet loss problems with Comcast leading to http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3521364 and other fringe posts. Sigh, time to dust off the old SC2. :/
Was having a bunch of random 50000+ ping shit happen to me too all day. was pretty stupid
On July 16 2013 13:38 Amarok wrote: I've always felt if they wanted to reincentivize farming the jungle they'd be best off simply doing the exact opposite of what they did in S2. Make jungle camps worth progressively less the longer it takes you to farm them. Say 5% each 10 seconds up to a cap of 30%?
Horrible way of doing it. What does that really do?
Right now, junglers can gank, and if it doesn't work, it hurts, but they can farm and recover. You're just delaying that recovery time by a whole clear. Opportunity cost of a gank is already really high. If you have to base after the gank, then regardless of success you've put yourself even further behind.
You'd need to up the base gold values to reward quick clearing, but the basic idea is that if you spend all your time in lane there's a penalty for doing so. There's a penalty currently but it's offset by the fact that it's pretty easy to zone the solo laner out of gold and/or xp range while getting bonus XP for duo laning, mitigating the risk of ganking/pressure. A mobile champ with extremely quick clear (say Shyv) becomes the counter to heavy lane pressure from the jungler.
Or maybe it wouldn't work out that way. I dunno.
Jungler's who camp lanes too much already fall far enough behind. You see it all the time on J4 and Lee in particular even in pro play. Jungler spends a couple minutes too much in bushes without success, and all of a sudden, they initiate and blow up because they're the same level as the support with like 1k more gold in defensive stats.
It's a hard balance because you want to put incentives to clear the jungle, without making it so that you can free-farm a tryn or jax to the 2+ big items by 25 minutes mark. I'd look more to an experience buff on the camps over a gold buff, because right now a jungler who's behind, free farming camps doesn't really get them much more than a duo lane.
Why would we even want more farm heavy junglers junglers have to farm a lot as it is because they need to be strong enough for when fights over objectives start, otherwise you are forced to do silly things like trade dragon+bot tower for top tower+a kill and those uneven trades just snowball out of control very quickly. So I'd argue that jungle is as farmy as you want it to be atm
On July 16 2013 14:51 SwizzY wrote: Dear god league is simply unplayable now. Some weird packet loss problems with Comcast leading to http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3521364 and other fringe posts. Sigh, time to dust off the old SC2. :/
Guess it's a good thing that I have a real itch to get back into ranked play but can't seem to get myself to do it lately.
On July 16 2013 15:28 Scip wrote: Why would we even want more farm heavy junglers junglers have to farm a lot as it is because they need to be strong enough for when fights over objectives start, otherwise you are forced to do silly things like trade dragon+bot tower for top tower+a kill and those uneven trades just snowball out of control very quickly. So I'd argue that jungle is as farmy as you want it to be atm
This got me thinking.
What if the jungle had an asymmetric distribution of EXP + gold relative to laners, with a buff to exp, and nerf to gold. The way the meta is panning out, heavily gold dependant junglers are out already, and riot probably isn't going to move to bring them back. Would buffing exp with a corresponding nerf to gold add some exp dependant junglers back into the competitive pool(thinking skarner and shyv, but there are other's as well)
On July 16 2013 13:38 Amarok wrote: I've always felt if they wanted to reincentivize farming the jungle they'd be best off simply doing the exact opposite of what they did in S2. Make jungle camps worth progressively less the longer it takes you to farm them. Say 5% each 10 seconds up to a cap of 30%?
Horrible way of doing it. What does that really do?
Right now, junglers can gank, and if it doesn't work, it hurts, but they can farm and recover. You're just delaying that recovery time by a whole clear. Opportunity cost of a gank is already really high. If you have to base after the gank, then regardless of success you've put yourself even further behind.
You'd need to up the base gold values to reward quick clearing, but the basic idea is that if you spend all your time in lane there's a penalty for doing so. There's a penalty currently but it's offset by the fact that it's pretty easy to zone the solo laner out of gold and/or xp range while getting bonus XP for duo laning, mitigating the risk of ganking/pressure. A mobile champ with extremely quick clear (say Shyv) becomes the counter to heavy lane pressure from the jungler.
Or maybe it wouldn't work out that way. I dunno.
Jungler's who camp lanes too much already fall far enough behind. You see it all the time on J4 and Lee in particular even in pro play. Jungler spends a couple minutes too much in bushes without success, and all of a sudden, they initiate and blow up because they're the same level as the support with like 1k more gold in defensive stats.
It's a hard balance because you want to put incentives to clear the jungle, without making it so that you can free-farm a tryn or jax to the 2+ big items by 25 minutes mark. I'd look more to an experience buff on the camps over a gold buff, because right now a jungler who's behind, free farming camps doesn't really get them much more than a duo lane.
No they don't, not nearly enough for the benefit the confer on a laner. Now, maybe because some of the most popular champions in the game right now (Jayce, Kennen) are essentially un-zonable doesn't make this any less true.
Example: I played a game just now as Amumu. My 1st 3 ganks were medicore after I did Buff>Buff. I blew Top's flash with bandage, then hit my toss 15 seconds later and we forced her out of lane. Then I went mid and forced a flash. Then did Wraiths and went to base to get SS. Before I even got to my Jungle, Top and Mid both scored kills. Meanwhile, Udyr was like 15 CS ahead of me before he started soaking minions toplane.
The tradeoff is kinda embarrassing. I think the only common Jungler whos ganks are bad enough to not be able to do what I just said is Udyr, and honestly, he is what should be the model for the jungle: Him sitting in a bush is not terrible for a laner, he loses a lot from sitting in said bush (because he has good clear speeds and needs to be tankier than any other jungler in the game), and he can also take advantage of counterjungling.
I also think people need to stop fooling themselves about the mythical jungle Jax or Tryndamere farming then coming and crushing. First of all, in the pro leagues no team would allow that kind of tomfoolery. The team would be down 4 turrets, 25 CS/lane and 2 dragons before you can say "bingo". Plus, in Soloq, the damage is not that far behind. I would say a failed gank is worth at least 50-100 gold to your laner, and a successful gank can be anywhere between 150 (forced to back) to 400 gold (kill + shove to turret) in gold and EXP.
The problem with your experience cLutZ is that the laners were obviously terrible. For example, the top laner pushed the lane too much even though he is not a champion who can afford it, or he pushed somewhat and your gank got it back in place but he played overaggressively after, or done goofed when he got killed 1v1. Amui is completely right, against competent laners camping does very little. One of the choice problems of camping is that even if you help win a sidelane with camping, if you are a level behind, the enemy can invade one of your buffs at 7:10 or 7:40 (depending which side you put ahead) with impunity and you will have significant problems defending against that.
On July 16 2013 16:19 Scip wrote: The problem with your experience cLutZ is that the laners were obviously terrible. For example, the top laner pushed the lane too much even though he is not a champion who can afford it, or he pushed somewhat and your gank got it back in place but he played overaggressively after, or done goofed when he got killed 1v1. Amui is completely right, against competent laners camping does very little. One of the choice problems of camping is that even if you help win a sidelane with camping, if you are a level behind, the enemy can invade one of your buffs at 7:10 or 7:40 (depending which side you put ahead) with impunity and you will have significant problems defending against that.
Your contention is this: Camping works very well vs. terrible laners (i.e. what you are calling my experience). However, OGN, LCS, and LPL also demonstrate that exerting lane pressure is also the superior strategy.
In other words, in your mind, a strategy is good at both the "terrible" and the elite levels, but is otherwise inapplicable. This is ridiculous. Sure I used my one personal experience to talk about this particular problem to demonstrate it occurs not only at pro levels, but at all levels. But the fact is, my complaint stems from watching pro games and my frustration with the viewing experience.
I haven't watched that much LCS, OGN or LPL, true that, but from the little I have seen all lane pressure (unless the jungler makes a mistake) is used to gain an objective; be that a tower, a buff or the dragon. That is completely different and separate from your example which is just an example of bad play by laners.
Also, while I am not the one to call pitchforks to arms (or am I?), your statement+example could very well be attacked by the masses criticizing riot for not letting players adapt to strategies/tactics/mechanics. Laners will eventually learn to lane in such a way that ganking them for the sake of killing them is ineffective, there is nothing at all that needs to be fixed.
On July 16 2013 16:56 Scip wrote: I haven't watched that much LCS, OGN or LPL, true that, but from the little I have seen all lane pressure (unless the jungler makes a mistake) is used to gain an objective; be that a tower, a buff or the dragon. That is completely different and separate from your example which is just an example of bad play by laners.
Also, while I am not the one to call pitchforks to arms (or am I?), your statement+example could very well be attacked by the masses criticizing riot for not letting players adapt to strategies/tactics/mechanics. Laners will eventually learn to lane in such a way that ganking them for the sake of killing them is ineffective, there is nothing at all that needs to be fixed.
The problem with your "solution" is that laners have already (largly) taken your advice and the answer (primarily) has been a decrease in the champion pool.
I'd rather attribute the reduction in championpool of solo laners to the prevalence of laneswapping rather than their inherent gankability.
Unless you can perhaps provide a few examples of solo laners who aren't played anymore due to their gankability in 1v1 lanes despite their at least average performance in laneswaps?
On July 16 2013 15:28 Scip wrote: Why would we even want more farm heavy junglers junglers have to farm a lot as it is because they need to be strong enough for when fights over objectives start, otherwise you are forced to do silly things like trade dragon+bot tower for top tower+a kill and those uneven trades just snowball out of control very quickly. So I'd argue that jungle is as farmy as you want it to be atm
I disagree that the meta currently is "farm heavy junglers"; especially at highest tier of play. A lot of the farm that junglers are getting (especially early on); are currently split farm from very early lane pressure; either it's defending the 2v3 lane pressure; or creating a 3v1 lane pressure for the early towers. Even later on in game; currently, junglers aside from buff control are usually in lane; rarely in jungle any more. Though there is more farm in jungle; junglers currently aren't allocating it, because objectives are almost always worth grabbing over jungle farm (especially since they've figured out that objectives are so easy to grab with low risk; especially with new lane setups).
On July 16 2013 17:10 TheYango wrote: The fact that Ryze top is such a huge thing right now pretty much kills the idea that being gankable makes laners totally untenable.
that's more attributed how cheap vision is. if we had s2 oracles; ryze top would never be a thing.
EPT
