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On July 16 2013 11:32 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 11:22 Slayer91 wrote:On July 16 2013 11:00 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:On July 16 2013 09:56 Amarok wrote:
[quote]
No, but it's still more achievable for the jungler as well which will largely have the same effect of increasing options. With less passive gain provided by the item and more MR options (including budget ones) it becomes less vital to complete asap.
I saw supports getting Bulwark in solo Q as it was. If Locket isn't as vital a mid game item it can be the item that the support works towards. Emblem is amazing in the laning phase, Aegis has a relatively smooth build path and the Locket active is at its most effective post 15-20 mins anyway. If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc) The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. I still prefer that over the GP10 fest. Who cares if the Jungler builds tanky? That's just the way the position has developed. Not every role has to do damage. theres really no difference between philo hog and spirit stone ruby crystal aside from gp10 factor which really made a small difference (maybe what 600 gold in an average game?) like gp10s are so fucking overrated gp10 tanks vs season 3 jungler tanks who get more gold from jungle so it makes it even and they build whatever the most cost efficient items are then (aegis shurelya randuin vs spirit of the ancient golem locket aegis) the jungler role really hasnt changed at all in 3 seasons of terms of the pick types (thought champ pools have changed all the time) I guess I just like seeing Junglers actually finish up items quicker instead of building Philo/HoG before moving into real items. Maybe it's just a psychological thing then.
still doesn't change the fact that jungle is just a tank fest;
On July 16 2013 11:28 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:On July 16 2013 09:56 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 09:48 TheYango wrote:On July 16 2013 09:44 Amarok wrote:
Personally I don't mind most of the changes. It means laners need to make more choices in terms of defenses because there is less passive defense provided by Bulwark. The locket/aegis combo is a more achievable item for a support which frees up the build paths of junglers (which in turn allows for more options at champ select for junglers and laners).
I'm actually surprised there's that much of an uproar about it. There's still no compelling reason to wait for a support to have 2700 gold before you have Locket when you could have it way earlier on a jungler or top laner. No, but it's still more achievable for the jungler as well which will largely have the same effect of increasing options. With less passive gain provided by the item and more MR options (including budget ones) it becomes less vital to complete asap. I saw supports getting Bulwark in solo Q as it was. If Locket isn't as vital a mid game item it can be the item that the support works towards. Emblem is amazing in the laning phase, Aegis has a relatively smooth build path and the Locket active is at its most effective post 15-20 mins anyway. If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc) The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. That is only later in the game. And the fact is, for jungler purposes, the only clear that matters is the first clear. Maybe the 2nd.
Even later on in the game; jungler still seemed so gold starved; and still build only tank items.
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United States23745 Posts
On July 16 2013 11:33 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 11:32 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 11:22 Slayer91 wrote:On July 16 2013 11:00 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:
[quote]
If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc)
The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. I still prefer that over the GP10 fest. Who cares if the Jungler builds tanky? That's just the way the position has developed. Not every role has to do damage. theres really no difference between philo hog and spirit stone ruby crystal aside from gp10 factor which really made a small difference (maybe what 600 gold in an average game?) like gp10s are so fucking overrated gp10 tanks vs season 3 jungler tanks who get more gold from jungle so it makes it even and they build whatever the most cost efficient items are then (aegis shurelya randuin vs spirit of the ancient golem locket aegis) the jungler role really hasnt changed at all in 3 seasons of terms of the pick types (thought champ pools have changed all the time) I guess I just like seeing Junglers actually finish up items quicker instead of building Philo/HoG before moving into real items. Maybe it's just a psychological thing then. still doesn't change the fact that jungle is just a tank fest;
Still doesn't change that I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that :p
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On July 16 2013 11:04 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 11:00 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:On July 16 2013 09:56 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 09:48 TheYango wrote:
[quote]
There's still no compelling reason to wait for a support to have 2700 gold before you have Locket when you could have it way earlier on a jungler or top laner. No, but it's still more achievable for the jungler as well which will largely have the same effect of increasing options. With less passive gain provided by the item and more MR options (including budget ones) it becomes less vital to complete asap. I saw supports getting Bulwark in solo Q as it was. If Locket isn't as vital a mid game item it can be the item that the support works towards. Emblem is amazing in the laning phase, Aegis has a relatively smooth build path and the Locket active is at its most effective post 15-20 mins anyway. If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc) The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. I still prefer that over the GP10 fest. Who cares if the Jungler builds tanky? That's just the way the position has developed. Not every role has to do damage. Don't you find it wildly boring that every opening item is almost always spirit of ancient golem now? Almost always followed up by Aegis or Locket. Even ADC's have more item variety/build variety than that now; and that's saying something. I would love to see tiamat become a viable jungle opening; it'd open up a lot of opportunities for junglers.
How about bilgewater instead of tiamat for the increased ganking power? You could sit on machete or spirit stone for a while since they are pretty efficient items on their own, get a mid-tier DPS item then continue your tankiness -- kinda like how jiji went brutalizer before finishing ancient golem on jungle Panth
grain of salt: I'm terrible at jungle
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On July 16 2013 11:57 Flakes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 11:04 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 11:00 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:On July 16 2013 09:56 Amarok wrote:
[quote]
No, but it's still more achievable for the jungler as well which will largely have the same effect of increasing options. With less passive gain provided by the item and more MR options (including budget ones) it becomes less vital to complete asap.
I saw supports getting Bulwark in solo Q as it was. If Locket isn't as vital a mid game item it can be the item that the support works towards. Emblem is amazing in the laning phase, Aegis has a relatively smooth build path and the Locket active is at its most effective post 15-20 mins anyway. If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc) The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. I still prefer that over the GP10 fest. Who cares if the Jungler builds tanky? That's just the way the position has developed. Not every role has to do damage. Don't you find it wildly boring that every opening item is almost always spirit of ancient golem now? Almost always followed up by Aegis or Locket. Even ADC's have more item variety/build variety than that now; and that's saying something. I would love to see tiamat become a viable jungle opening; it'd open up a lot of opportunities for junglers. How about bilgewater instead of tiamat for the increased ganking power? You could sit on machete or spirit stone for a while since they are pretty efficient items on their own, get a mid-tier DPS item then continue your tankiness -- kinda like how jiji went brutalizer before finishing ancient golem on jungle Panth grain of salt: I'm terrible at jungle
If we're talking about non-competitive play I've had plenty of Jarven's rush BorK->tankiness and do well in the depths of Silver.
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On July 16 2013 12:00 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 11:57 Flakes wrote:On July 16 2013 11:04 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 11:00 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:
[quote]
If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc)
The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. I still prefer that over the GP10 fest. Who cares if the Jungler builds tanky? That's just the way the position has developed. Not every role has to do damage. Don't you find it wildly boring that every opening item is almost always spirit of ancient golem now? Almost always followed up by Aegis or Locket. Even ADC's have more item variety/build variety than that now; and that's saying something. I would love to see tiamat become a viable jungle opening; it'd open up a lot of opportunities for junglers. How about bilgewater instead of tiamat for the increased ganking power? You could sit on machete or spirit stone for a while since they are pretty efficient items on their own, get a mid-tier DPS item then continue your tankiness -- kinda like how jiji went brutalizer before finishing ancient golem on jungle Panth grain of salt: I'm terrible at jungle If we're talking about non-competitive play I've had plenty of Jarven's rush BorK->tankiness and do well in the depths of Silver.
I was thinking about CLG vs Crs in LCS where bigfatlp was jungle panth -- I didn't reference it specifically because there were... a lot of things I didn't like in that game 
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United States23745 Posts
On July 16 2013 12:02 Flakes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 12:00 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 11:57 Flakes wrote:On July 16 2013 11:04 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 11:00 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:
[quote]
I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. I still prefer that over the GP10 fest. Who cares if the Jungler builds tanky? That's just the way the position has developed. Not every role has to do damage. Don't you find it wildly boring that every opening item is almost always spirit of ancient golem now? Almost always followed up by Aegis or Locket. Even ADC's have more item variety/build variety than that now; and that's saying something. I would love to see tiamat become a viable jungle opening; it'd open up a lot of opportunities for junglers. How about bilgewater instead of tiamat for the increased ganking power? You could sit on machete or spirit stone for a while since they are pretty efficient items on their own, get a mid-tier DPS item then continue your tankiness -- kinda like how jiji went brutalizer before finishing ancient golem on jungle Panth grain of salt: I'm terrible at jungle If we're talking about non-competitive play I've had plenty of Jarven's rush BorK->tankiness and do well in the depths of Silver. I was thinking about CLG vs Crs in LCS where bigfatlp was jungle panth -- I didn't reference it specifically because there were... a lot of things I didn't like in that game
That's a fair assessment of that game lol. Although I was okay with the result.
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United States23745 Posts
On July 16 2013 12:10 krndandaman wrote:
why does it seem like every streamer plays osu?
seriously every time I turn on a stream its osu during queue
I think it's mostly to improve reaction times and mouse precision. Or it could just be for fun lol.
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On July 16 2013 11:33 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 11:32 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 11:22 Slayer91 wrote:On July 16 2013 11:00 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:
[quote]
If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc)
The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. I still prefer that over the GP10 fest. Who cares if the Jungler builds tanky? That's just the way the position has developed. Not every role has to do damage. theres really no difference between philo hog and spirit stone ruby crystal aside from gp10 factor which really made a small difference (maybe what 600 gold in an average game?) like gp10s are so fucking overrated gp10 tanks vs season 3 jungler tanks who get more gold from jungle so it makes it even and they build whatever the most cost efficient items are then (aegis shurelya randuin vs spirit of the ancient golem locket aegis) the jungler role really hasnt changed at all in 3 seasons of terms of the pick types (thought champ pools have changed all the time) I guess I just like seeing Junglers actually finish up items quicker instead of building Philo/HoG before moving into real items. Maybe it's just a psychological thing then. still doesn't change the fact that jungle is just a tank fest; Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 11:28 cLutZ wrote:On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:On July 16 2013 09:56 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 09:48 TheYango wrote:
[quote]
There's still no compelling reason to wait for a support to have 2700 gold before you have Locket when you could have it way earlier on a jungler or top laner. No, but it's still more achievable for the jungler as well which will largely have the same effect of increasing options. With less passive gain provided by the item and more MR options (including budget ones) it becomes less vital to complete asap. I saw supports getting Bulwark in solo Q as it was. If Locket isn't as vital a mid game item it can be the item that the support works towards. Emblem is amazing in the laning phase, Aegis has a relatively smooth build path and the Locket active is at its most effective post 15-20 mins anyway. If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc) The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. That is only later in the game. And the fact is, for jungler purposes, the only clear that matters is the first clear. Maybe the 2nd. Even later on in the game; jungler still seemed so gold starved; and still build only tank items.
Yes, because the jungler only has the domain over the jungle (and the time to clear it) early, before the gold value ramps up. Therefore the jungler gets no benefit from the ramping up.
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Has anyone else been getting crazy client lag lately? It's terrible and I can't even play the game anymore. Sometimes healthbars and nameplates disappear and creeps/champions just move around randomly for a few seconds and then "fast forward" once it goes back to normal. Other times, the lag will last for 20-30 seconds accompanied by an "attempting to reconnect" bar. 
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Yes that has happened to me a few times in the last week or so.
Also, is there a way to re order your mastery pages without redoing them all?
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On July 16 2013 12:16 Perplex wrote:Has anyone else been getting crazy client lag lately? It's terrible and I can't even play the game anymore. Sometimes healthbars and nameplates disappear and creeps/champions just move around randomly for a few seconds and then "fast forward" once it goes back to normal. Other times, the lag will last for 20-30 seconds accompanied by an "attempting to reconnect" bar.
Yeah me and friends get it occasionally -- think it's gotta be server side because our ping never wavers, just crazy latency spikes
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United States23745 Posts
On July 16 2013 12:19 upperbound wrote:
Yes that has happened to me a few times in the last week or so.
Also, is there a way to re order your mastery pages without redoing them all?
Nope, but it's a feature that's requested fairly often.
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So I was watching the Hobbit and I noticed that Bofur has a Draven mustache and two axes.
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On July 16 2013 12:14 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 11:33 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 11:32 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 11:22 Slayer91 wrote:On July 16 2013 11:00 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:
[quote]
I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. I still prefer that over the GP10 fest. Who cares if the Jungler builds tanky? That's just the way the position has developed. Not every role has to do damage. theres really no difference between philo hog and spirit stone ruby crystal aside from gp10 factor which really made a small difference (maybe what 600 gold in an average game?) like gp10s are so fucking overrated gp10 tanks vs season 3 jungler tanks who get more gold from jungle so it makes it even and they build whatever the most cost efficient items are then (aegis shurelya randuin vs spirit of the ancient golem locket aegis) the jungler role really hasnt changed at all in 3 seasons of terms of the pick types (thought champ pools have changed all the time) I guess I just like seeing Junglers actually finish up items quicker instead of building Philo/HoG before moving into real items. Maybe it's just a psychological thing then. still doesn't change the fact that jungle is just a tank fest; On July 16 2013 11:28 cLutZ wrote:On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:On July 16 2013 09:56 Amarok wrote:
[quote]
No, but it's still more achievable for the jungler as well which will largely have the same effect of increasing options. With less passive gain provided by the item and more MR options (including budget ones) it becomes less vital to complete asap.
I saw supports getting Bulwark in solo Q as it was. If Locket isn't as vital a mid game item it can be the item that the support works towards. Emblem is amazing in the laning phase, Aegis has a relatively smooth build path and the Locket active is at its most effective post 15-20 mins anyway. If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc) The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. That is only later in the game. And the fact is, for jungler purposes, the only clear that matters is the first clear. Maybe the 2nd. Even later on in the game; jungler still seemed so gold starved; and still build only tank items. Yes, because the jungler only has the domain over the jungle (and the time to clear it) early, before the gold value ramps up. Therefore the jungler gets no benefit from the ramping up.
I think this also has to do with how fast laning phase dissolves; if lane phase was preserved longer in pro-games; it would be more likely to see more offensively geared junglers (of course coupled with some item changes for junglers).
On July 16 2013 12:00 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 11:57 Flakes wrote:On July 16 2013 11:04 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 11:00 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:
[quote]
If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc)
The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. I still prefer that over the GP10 fest. Who cares if the Jungler builds tanky? That's just the way the position has developed. Not every role has to do damage. Don't you find it wildly boring that every opening item is almost always spirit of ancient golem now? Almost always followed up by Aegis or Locket. Even ADC's have more item variety/build variety than that now; and that's saying something. I would love to see tiamat become a viable jungle opening; it'd open up a lot of opportunities for junglers. How about bilgewater instead of tiamat for the increased ganking power? You could sit on machete or spirit stone for a while since they are pretty efficient items on their own, get a mid-tier DPS item then continue your tankiness -- kinda like how jiji went brutalizer before finishing ancient golem on jungle Panth grain of salt: I'm terrible at jungle If we're talking about non-competitive play I've had plenty of Jarven's rush BorK->tankiness and do well in the depths of Silver.
soloqueue tends to have much longer lane phase; (then follow logic of previous statement).
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On July 16 2013 12:16 Perplex wrote:Has anyone else been getting crazy client lag lately? It's terrible and I can't even play the game anymore. Sometimes healthbars and nameplates disappear and creeps/champions just move around randomly for a few seconds and then "fast forward" once it goes back to normal. Other times, the lag will last for 20-30 seconds accompanied by an "attempting to reconnect" bar.
Yes. See my Shikyo. Wow it's a Riot issue. Fuck this game. Seriously considering uninstalling. (That'll show em!)
Riot also made a post about something recently and told everyone to disable ipv6 to clear it up.
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Mark your calendars this weekend for Brazilian Championship (BR regionals). I'm so excited for it. BR is returning to the esports glory days of Counter Strike and projected to exceed it.
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On July 16 2013 12:34 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 12:14 cLutZ wrote:On July 16 2013 11:33 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 11:32 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 11:22 Slayer91 wrote:On July 16 2013 11:00 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:
[quote]
OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. I still prefer that over the GP10 fest. Who cares if the Jungler builds tanky? That's just the way the position has developed. Not every role has to do damage. theres really no difference between philo hog and spirit stone ruby crystal aside from gp10 factor which really made a small difference (maybe what 600 gold in an average game?) like gp10s are so fucking overrated gp10 tanks vs season 3 jungler tanks who get more gold from jungle so it makes it even and they build whatever the most cost efficient items are then (aegis shurelya randuin vs spirit of the ancient golem locket aegis) the jungler role really hasnt changed at all in 3 seasons of terms of the pick types (thought champ pools have changed all the time) I guess I just like seeing Junglers actually finish up items quicker instead of building Philo/HoG before moving into real items. Maybe it's just a psychological thing then. still doesn't change the fact that jungle is just a tank fest; On July 16 2013 11:28 cLutZ wrote:On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:
[quote]
If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc)
The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. That is only later in the game. And the fact is, for jungler purposes, the only clear that matters is the first clear. Maybe the 2nd. Even later on in the game; jungler still seemed so gold starved; and still build only tank items. Yes, because the jungler only has the domain over the jungle (and the time to clear it) early, before the gold value ramps up. Therefore the jungler gets no benefit from the ramping up. I think this also has to do with how fast laning phase dissolves; if lane phase was preserved longer in pro-games; it would be more likely to see more offensively geared junglers (of course coupled with some item changes for junglers). Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 12:00 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 11:57 Flakes wrote:On July 16 2013 11:04 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 11:00 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:
[quote]
I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. I still prefer that over the GP10 fest. Who cares if the Jungler builds tanky? That's just the way the position has developed. Not every role has to do damage. Don't you find it wildly boring that every opening item is almost always spirit of ancient golem now? Almost always followed up by Aegis or Locket. Even ADC's have more item variety/build variety than that now; and that's saying something. I would love to see tiamat become a viable jungle opening; it'd open up a lot of opportunities for junglers. How about bilgewater instead of tiamat for the increased ganking power? You could sit on machete or spirit stone for a while since they are pretty efficient items on their own, get a mid-tier DPS item then continue your tankiness -- kinda like how jiji went brutalizer before finishing ancient golem on jungle Panth grain of salt: I'm terrible at jungle If we're talking about non-competitive play I've had plenty of Jarven's rush BorK->tankiness and do well in the depths of Silver. soloqueue tends to have much longer lane phase; (then follow logic of previous statement).
Well, the longer laning phase lasts the more offensively geared melle champs we could see in general. With a long laning phase you can do a BotRK/Triforce > Defense on Irelia and Jax, you can go for Brutalizer on guys like Renekton, etc.
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On July 16 2013 11:28 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:On July 16 2013 09:56 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 09:48 TheYango wrote:On July 16 2013 09:44 Amarok wrote:
Personally I don't mind most of the changes. It means laners need to make more choices in terms of defenses because there is less passive defense provided by Bulwark. The locket/aegis combo is a more achievable item for a support which frees up the build paths of junglers (which in turn allows for more options at champ select for junglers and laners).
I'm actually surprised there's that much of an uproar about it. There's still no compelling reason to wait for a support to have 2700 gold before you have Locket when you could have it way earlier on a jungler or top laner. No, but it's still more achievable for the jungler as well which will largely have the same effect of increasing options. With less passive gain provided by the item and more MR options (including budget ones) it becomes less vital to complete asap. I saw supports getting Bulwark in solo Q as it was. If Locket isn't as vital a mid game item it can be the item that the support works towards. Emblem is amazing in the laning phase, Aegis has a relatively smooth build path and the Locket active is at its most effective post 15-20 mins anyway. If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc) The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. That is only later in the game. And the fact is, for jungler purposes, the only clear that matters is the first clear. Maybe the 2nd.
Actually, if you take into account the passive gold changes a jungler's income increased from season 2, and was increased against recently due to faster spawns...
...assuming the jungler keeps farming. The problem isn't that a jungler can't have a laner's income, it's that they can't have a laner's income while also having any presence whatsoever unless their name is Karthus.
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EPT
